Red Mile discussion #saferedmile

[tvp2003]

I'm not sure why the whole FH**** has to do with the Red Mile. Aside from both having mysoginistic undertones:

Red Mile = drunk crowds pressuring females after Calgary hockey games
FH**** = individual morons acting like stupid, childish idiots (not just Calgary)

The former deserves discussion for the reasons bunk posted. The latter makes my head hurt because of how lame/childish/stupid some people are. Can we keep that garbage in a different thread?

Originally Posted by Bunk

See how this works now guys? People bring up the topic, more people speak out about experiences and discuss issue - media pressure, civic pressure, organization (Flames) pressure, societal pressure and ultimately peer pressure make the behaviour more and more socially unacceptable. People like FireFly can enjoy the fan experience and be safe like everyone should. World becomes a better place.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Some vinegar bags screamed fhritp at a reporter as she was conducting a saferedmile interview. Well done, this is indeed a problem.


http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/calg...rend-1.3048108

CBC posted a picture of his pickup and licence plate. Hopefully this idiot will get to explain his idiocy to a Judge (and his mother).

[united]

Originally Posted by troutman

CBC posted a picture of his pickup and licence plate. Hopefully this idiot will get to explain his idiocy to a Judge (and his mother).

Spoiler!

[pylon]

LOL, Dodge Ram owner.... carrying garbage cans.

Seems fitting.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Ugh. Close this thread already.

Obviously a red mile thread needs to exist during a Flames playoff run...

People need to grow up and deal with it. Things are getting blown out of proportion and any butthurt canuck fan will jump on anything to slander the city.

I can guarantee the red mile is not out of hand and I know several mid twenties girls that had no issues going out to the last two games (my girlfriend included). They are big girls and know that drunk men say dumb things that they won't remember. A select few might be threatened and they can feel free to celebrate elsewhere.

Go ahead and attack alcoholism if that's your issue. It's not like it's limited to Calgary..

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Obviously a red mile thread needs to exist during a Flames playoff run...

People need to grow up and deal with it. Things are getting blown out of proportion and any butthurt canuck fan will jump on anything to slander the city.

I can guarantee the red mile is not out of hand and I know several mid twenties girls that had no issues going out to the last two games (my girlfriend included). They are big girls and know that drunk men say dumb things that they won't remember. A select few might be threatened and they can feel free to celebrate elsewhere.

Go ahead and attack alcoholism if that's your issue. It's not like it's limited to Calgary..

I was going to bold the truly dumb parts, but it's all dumb, so no point. Also, Bob Hartley thinks you're stupid.

[Nsd1]

Originally Posted by troutman

CBC posted a picture of his pickup and licence plate. Hopefully this idiot will get to explain his idiocy to a Judge (and his mother).

Is doing that illegal?

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Bunk

I was going to bold the truly dumb parts, but it's all dumb, so no point. Also, Bob Hartley thinks you're stupid.

Thanks for the personal attack on a forum. You must be a respectable person in real life who is above anything and everything in this thread.

Has Bob Hartley been to the Red Mile? No, he's heard stories, many unsubstantiated. The red mile is not out of hand no matter how much you want to think it is. I've been there. I do more than post on the internet.

[Bunk]

Thanks for the personal attack on a forum. You must be a respectable person in real life who is above anything and everything in this thread.

Has Bob Hartley been to the Red Mile? No, he's heard stories, many unsubstantiated. The red mile is not out of hand no matter how much you want to think it is. I've been there. I do more than post on the internet.

So you'd disagree with female forumers like Firefly that:

a) It was a problem last time

b) It's likely to ramp up as things heat up like in 04, and we should keep an eye. Perhaps be proactive about trying to create a better atmosphere for women.

c) Females should be able to enjoy and feel safe on 17th.

Your basic premise if I could paraphrase:

a) The main problem is our reputation and what Vancouver people might say, not how it affects women

b) It's not a problem yet because I know girls who've seen it first hand two times in this early playoff round so "guaranteed" it's not an issue. Bob Hartley only hears things. I know what's going on here.

c) Being drunk can pretty much excuse most bad behaviour and it happens in all places, not just Calgary.

d) When bad behavior or harassment happens (likely due to drunkenness) women should just "deal with it".

e) If they can't "deal with it" they should stay away. This is a place for big boys and girls.

f) So, if you can't deal with it, chose to go anyway and a drunk guy harasses you, it's at least partially your fault.

If I've got it wrong - please, feel free to clarify.

Personal attack? Sure, yes it is.

Originally Posted by FireFly

I cannot tell you how many times I have typed up a reply to this thread and then deleted it. I cannot tell you how many posts I have quoted in those posts. I have been keeping my eye on this thread and am not really surprised at how it is unfolding.

I was 23 in 2004 and lived on 14th Ave so was within walking distance of the red mile. I thoroughly enjoyed the atmosphere for the first round of playoffs. True fans who loved the team and the game coming together in celebration of what seemed like the impossible.

Every game after that became more and more uncomfortable.

It's hard to describe to a bunch of men just what it felt like down there. Not every woman will have the same experiences, not everyone responds the same way. We all have our own journeys to follow. I am not going to judge the girls who decided to flash for whatever reason. It's not really my concern if someone wants to show their tits.

However, imagine yourself surrounded by thousands of people chanting "Flames in six! Show your tits!" THOUSANDS. 1/3 of those people have their cameras ready to take your picture should you oblige. Some of them are yelling right in your face. Some of them are grabbing at your shirt. All of them are drunk. You and your girlfriend or boyfriend are surrounded by drunks, 90% of whom are yelling at you to take your shirt off for Kiprusoff.

Is that what it's like this year? I doubt it. By all accounts it's not that bad. It wasn't that bad for round one in 2004 either. But every round it got successively worse.

Someone here said that the chants were aimed at the girls who were flashing.... Really? Is that what you think? I'm pretty sure everyone has already seen their boobs and what is being chanted for is more boobs.

Words cannot possibly convey the growing discomfort and disgust I felt in 2004. At times I was scared for my personal safety. (People yelling in my face, calling me frigid or other names, making comments about my boobs because I wouldn't show them, the grabbing, etc.)

Again, my understanding is that it's not like this this year. That's fine. But things snowball. If it's okay to chant asking for women to flash now, what happens when you triple the population down there?

I could go on and on about this. People are trying to say it wasn't an issue in '04 and it shouldn't be an issue now but it absolutely was an issue in '04. People are trying to stop it from becoming an issue this year. I would love to head down to the Red Mile again but I just don't feel comfortable. That's sad. I'm a diehard Flames fan and I should be able to enjoy the festivities as much as anyone. However, because I have tits I'm only allowed if I'm okay with being sexually harassed and asked to show my tits to everyone and subsequently, have them placed on the internet without my permission.

And yes, it is sexual harassment. Chanting at women in the hopes they will show their tits is absolutely sexual harassment. Groping, smacking and grabbing when it's unwanted is absolutely sexual assault. Is it the same as rape? No. No one is claiming it is. However, it is all demeaning to women and it is all a crime.

[DiracSpike]

Your issue is with alcoholism man, like he said, it's not exactly limited to Calgary.

Has anyone who is saying this years mile is a serious problem actually been there? Myself and many other posters haven't had a problem.

[Mister Yamoto]

..

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Your issue is with alcoholism man, like he said, it's not exactly limited to Calgary.

Has anyone who is saying this years mile is a serious problem actually been there? Myself and many other posters haven't had a problem.

If you read the OP, there are limited early incidents reported. But, the real point is to try and avoid some of the problems of last time (which occurred more as things really ramped up on the Red Mile in the later series').

[calgarywinning]

Walking around this city at 10:00 pm to 2:00 am you are subject to all kinds of harassment and assault issues, regardless of gender, from drunk people anytime of the year. The proportion of people go up, the level of harassment has to go up.

Also, you have many people who are not flames fans, who are revellers or crap disturbers that come out masked as fans and ruin it for all. When I was on the redmile on Tuesday it felt less chaotic and more a celebration.

Should it happen? No, it ruins a fun time. In a perfect utopia it wouldn't happen. Calgary is not utopia.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I cannot tell you how many times I have typed up a reply to this thread and then deleted it. I cannot tell you how many posts I have quoted in those posts. I have been keeping my eye on this thread and am not really surprised at how it is unfolding.

I was 23 in 2004 and lived on 14th Ave so was within walking distance of the red mile. I thoroughly enjoyed the atmosphere for the first round of playoffs. True fans who loved the team and the game coming together in celebration of what seemed like the impossible.

Every game after that became more and more uncomfortable.

It's hard to describe to a bunch of men just what it felt like down there. Not every woman will have the same experiences, not everyone responds the same way. We all have our own journeys to follow. I am not going to judge the girls who decided to flash for whatever reason. It's not really my concern if someone wants to show their tits.

However, imagine yourself surrounded by thousands of people chanting "Flames in six! Show your tits!" THOUSANDS. 1/3 of those people have their cameras ready to take your picture should you oblige. Some of them are yelling right in your face. Some of them are grabbing at your shirt. All of them are drunk. You and your girlfriend or boyfriend are surrounded by drunks, 90% of whom are yelling at you to take your shirt off for Kiprusoff.

Is that what it's like this year? I doubt it. By all accounts it's not that bad. It wasn't that bad for round one in 2004 either. But every round it got successively worse.

Someone here said that the chants were aimed at the girls who were flashing.... Really? Is that what you think? I'm pretty sure everyone has already seen their boobs and what is being chanted for is more boobs.

Words cannot possibly convey the growing discomfort and disgust I felt in 2004. At times I was scared for my personal safety. (People yelling in my face, calling me frigid or other names, making comments about my boobs because I wouldn't show them, the grabbing, etc.)

Again, my understanding is that it's not like this this year. That's fine. But things snowball. If it's okay to chant asking for women to flash now, what happens when you triple the population down there?

I could go on and on about this. People are trying to say it wasn't an issue in '04 and it shouldn't be an issue now but it absolutely was an issue in '04. People are trying to stop it from becoming an issue this year. I would love to head down to the Red Mile again but I just don't feel comfortable. That's sad. I'm a diehard Flames fan and I should be able to enjoy the festivities as much as anyone. However, because I have tits I'm only allowed if I'm okay with being sexually harassed and asked to show my tits to everyone and subsequently, have them placed on the internet without my permission.

And yes, it is sexual harassment. Chanting at women in the hopes they will show their tits is absolutely sexual harassment. Groping, smacking and grabbing when it's unwanted is absolutely sexual assault. Is it the same as rape? No. No one is claiming it is. However, it is all demeaning to women and it is all a crime.

If you skimmed it the first time (or the second) here's a chance to read it again. Great post Firefly, and one I'd bet represents the way most women would feel about this sort of thing. It may not start as a personal attack, and it may not be intended as one, but that's exactly where it can and often does end up.

Best thing that can happen is to have this discussion early and nip it in the bud, because it's a lot harder to discourage a mob than a single ######.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

I can guarantee....

[Mightyfire89]

Firefly posted what should be the definitive post in this thread. That should be it. Thread done.

Some people are revealing themselves to be complete neanderthals. Those people are making me sad that I grew up in Calgary. You need to be better. Sort yourselves out.

Good grief.

[corporatejay]

I was a reasonably active participant in the red mile back in 2004. I remember my wife (then girlfriend) coming home from her summer job in edmonton and asking to go down to the red mile. I was of course happy to oblige, but funny enough it wasn't until we were talking about this thread that she reminded me how as we waded through the crowds of people I walked with my arms wrapped around her, elbows out, to keep her "safe" from the groping crowds and aggressive fans.

Funny enough, if I, a male, thought it was unsafe for my girlfriend to be there without me "protecting" her from drunken dudes, then how safe could it really be for a woman alone, or a group of women.

I'm glad this discussion is being had, because without the benefit of this discussion, I'd probably look back at the 2004 red mile with red coloured glasses, instead the shine is wearing off a bit.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I cannot tell you how many times I have typed up a reply to this thread and then deleted it. I cannot tell you how many posts I have quoted in those posts. I have been keeping my eye on this thread and am not really surprised at how it is unfolding.

I was 23 in 2004 and lived on 14th Ave so was within walking distance of the red mile. I thoroughly enjoyed the atmosphere for the first round of playoffs. True fans who loved the team and the game coming together in celebration of what seemed like the impossible.

Every game after that became more and more uncomfortable.

It's hard to describe to a bunch of men just what it felt like down there. Not every woman will have the same experiences, not everyone responds the same way. We all have our own journeys to follow. I am not going to judge the girls who decided to flash for whatever reason. It's not really my concern if someone wants to show their tits.

However, imagine yourself surrounded by thousands of people chanting "Flames in six! Show your tits!" THOUSANDS. 1/3 of those people have their cameras ready to take your picture should you oblige. Some of them are yelling right in your face. Some of them are grabbing at your shirt. All of them are drunk. You and your girlfriend or boyfriend are surrounded by drunks, 90% of whom are yelling at you to take your shirt off for Kiprusoff.

Is that what it's like this year? I doubt it. By all accounts it's not that bad. It wasn't that bad for round one in 2004 either. But every round it got successively worse.

Someone here said that the chants were aimed at the girls who were flashing.... Really? Is that what you think? I'm pretty sure everyone has already seen their boobs and what is being chanted for is more boobs.

Words cannot possibly convey the growing discomfort and disgust I felt in 2004. At times I was scared for my personal safety. (People yelling in my face, calling me frigid or other names, making comments about my boobs because I wouldn't show them, the grabbing, etc.)

Again, my understanding is that it's not like this this year. That's fine. But things snowball. If it's okay to chant asking for women to flash now, what happens when you triple the population down there?

I could go on and on about this. People are trying to say it wasn't an issue in '04 and it shouldn't be an issue now but it absolutely was an issue in '04. People are trying to stop it from becoming an issue this year. I would love to head down to the Red Mile again but I just don't feel comfortable. That's sad. I'm a diehard Flames fan and I should be able to enjoy the festivities as much as anyone. However, because I have tits I'm only allowed if I'm okay with being sexually harassed and asked to show my tits to everyone and subsequently, have them placed on the internet without my permission.

And yes, it is sexual harassment. Chanting at women in the hopes they will show their tits is absolutely sexual harassment. Groping, smacking and grabbing when it's unwanted is absolutely sexual assault. Is it the same as rape? No. No one is claiming it is. However, it is all demeaning to women and it is all a crime.

CLUNK.

I think that was the sound of the mic dropping. Wow.

I'd like to hear someone try to argue with that post.

Well done.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by troutman

CBC posted a picture of his pickup and licence plate. Hopefully this idiot will get to explain his idiocy to a Judge (and his mother).

Is yelling something obscene at a person a criminal offense, and if so, what types of consequences would the person suffer? I'm just asking since I am no expert at law.

I never even heard of FH**** until two days ago, and it seems rather childish.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by Nsd1

Is doing that illegal?

Without derailing the thread and giving too much of a long winded answer... no. Generally speaking you can photograph anything you want in a public space, as there's no expectation of "privacy" once you leave your front door.

Within context of news journalism the gentleman yelling from the truck invited the attention of the camera to himself, and thus created a "newsworthy" bit of video.

Now the waste of skin the pick up truck could certainly argue that his privacy was violated and try to sue the local CBC office... but no laws were broken by them.