[Trade] Flames trade Baertschi to VAN for a 2015 2nd round pick (Baertschi requested trade)

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Erick Estrada: A master of self congratulation who never misses an opportunity.

Not really grumpy pants. Not really self congratulation at all because I know I'm not the only poster that was seeing that he wasn't that good. I usually held back because I didn't want to be a downer in Sven threads, rip on our prospects and give Sven his chance to make it. Now he's gone I don't have to hold back.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by robaur

The Canucks are going to coddle and baby Sven Baertschi like the Flames should have done. Different people respond to different treatment. You have to nurture some and be tough on others.

Canucks are going to throw a bunch of ice time at Baertschi and let him figure it out in the NHL and they're going to reap the rewards.

The Flames should have kept him up in the NHL and struggled through his growth with him. That was the only way this was going to work.

Canucks GM Jim Benning already telling the media that he expects Baertschi to play in their Top 6.

Sven didn't earn his ice time here, I think that throwing a incomplete player into the NHL, a player that already has head space issues will complete his destruction.

Sven will blow up like Alderaan being hit by a super laser.

[tkflames]

Looking forward to Baertschi and Kassian fighting it out over who can pout the hardest when they get benched. Vancouver doesn't have space for both be able to ride with both for the rest of the season and something's gotta give in the offseason. Despite Vancouvers lack of depth I don't know who Baertschi beats out on the top two lines and I think I would take Kassian over Baertschi on my 4th line...

This deal doesn't make a lot sense for Vancouver in my opinion when you consider they have to make a decision on a new contract in the next 2 months and need to make a roster spot for him by the fall (clearly Baertschi would not make a great 13th forward)...

[Flash Walken]

This year's Reto Berra.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't really want to get into this again, since it doesn't matter anymore, but can you show me other examples where management has ripped into their own prospect that badly?

Off the top of my head? No. But do you seriously look at Burke's entire quote and feel as though it qualifies as a "rip"? I don't get it. He was critical. He was honest. In his last paragraph he was also hopeful and confident about Baertschi's future.

I don't get how you can possibly interpret this from such a singularly lopsided perspective.

[SoCalFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by robaur

The Canucks are going to coddle and baby Sven Baertschi like the Flames should have done. Different people respond to different treatment. You have to nurture some and be tough on others.

Canucks are going to throw a bunch of ice time at Baertschi and let him figure it out in the NHL and they're going to reap the rewards.

I really doubt this. He hasn't even shown at the AHL level that he's worthy of top line ice time. Flames gave him plenty of shots and when he came up he was a non-factor. Its about more than just coddling. Its about the ability to actually perform against pro opposition. He has not shown he is capable of stepping up to the AHL level let alone NHL level.

[The_Future]

I can't wait for Sven to absolutely light it up against the Flames now. Seriously any other team and he would suck, but he will probably be 100 point a season guy now.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Erick Estrada: A master of self congratulation who never misses an opportunity.

Hey, everyone does this when their prospect is traded. Five minutes before the trade he was a surefire top six scorer, five minutes after he's a disappointment who will never amount to anything. At least EE is honest about it.

As for his spot, I suspect he stays in the AHL this year and attempts to make their team out of training camp. They have two left wings (Matthias and Higgins) who are UFA's at the end of this year and I kind of expect Matthias to get a bunch of money thrown at him by some other team, so there will be room on the left. It's not out of the question that Higgins also goes elsewhere.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Not really grumpy pants. Not really self congratulation at all because I know I'm not the only poster that was seeing that he wasn't that good. I usually held back because I didn't want to be a downer in Sven threads, rip on our prospects and give Sven his chance to make it. Now he's gone I don't have to hold back.

You're the only one who felt it necessary to remind us all about how "right" you were. Of course, this is not the first time.

[ThisIsAnOutrage]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

This thread is a great example of how badly fans overrate their own team's prospects. I think if you were to poll the league about Baertschi you would get some extremely cooled responses. His stock has fallen since draft day, which is ironic considering the huge spike upward he took the first year after the draft. It's not just his numbers either, it's his stagnation in his development in so many areas of the game that are crucial to be a good NHLer.

I'm not happy about the return, but it's mostly because Baertschi has ruined his own trade value. For a player that was going to have to clear waivers next camp and be lost for nothing, this is excellent asset management.

Not writing Sven off completely, but nothing he's done at the pro level makes me think he'll be anything more than a below average scoring winger in the NHL.

I think there's more to it than just overrating our own prospects. Sven was one of our first draft picks that gave frustrated fans a glimmer of hope that just maybe we had finally drawn an ace and that things were going to turn around.

While the rebuild is going great at the moment, for some, myself included, seeing Sven traded instead of flourishing with the team still represents the loss of a little bit of hope for the future. Imagine if he had turned the corner like we wanted and was flying with Gaudreau, Monahan, Hudler, and even Bouma. Would've been something.

That being said, the reality is we got a 2nd for an asset on the decline. Can't be upset about that. And for those concerned we traded him to a rival, look at it this way: Our rival traded us a 2nd, weakening them down the road. It's a two-way street.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Because apparently trading an underwhelming prospect to a rival now magically makes him a top 6 player who will come back to haunt us one day.

Yeah, seriously.... not looking at just this year, but the past 3 years, his stats are similar to Josh Jooris and Lance Bouma's stats this year, except those 2 guys are doing it in the NHL and Sven's is in the AHL... and we're worried he'll become (ok, 1 guy is worried) Pavel Bure?

I find it funny Benning barely even knows who this Sven guy is. He should really read Calgarypuck more often.

[SoCalFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by tkflames

Looking forward to Baertschi and Kassian fighting it out over who can pout the hardest when they get benched.

Kassian has 10 points in his last 12 games. Yes, thanks to playing with the Sedins. So I think its a shoo-in to say that Sven will win.

[TheDebaser]

Funny how a move can mitigate risk and still be so dangerous. Hard to be happy about this trade but great young players bust all the time. We get sentimental over sports, but sometimes you have to cut your losses.

Sometimes it's wise to trade your lottery ticket for ten dollars.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't really want to get into this again, since it doesn't matter anymore, but can you show me other examples where management has ripped into their own prospect that badly?

I believe Darryl did it with Tyler Toffoli a few years ago

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by The_Future

I can't wait for Sven to absolutely light it up against the Flames now. Seriously any other team and he would suck, but he will probably be 100 point a season guy now.

You make it seem like it's so common to hit this number.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Hey, everyone does this when their prospect is traded. Five minutes before the trade he was a surefire top six scorer, five minutes after he's a disappointment who will never amount to anything. At least EE is honest about it.

No. Everyone does not "do this." There have been lots of posters on this board who have been VERY critical about Baertschi for a long, long time now. And yet, I don't see any of them trotting out reminders about how they knew it all along.

And again, this is not the first time Estrada has done this; not by a long shot.

[Demetric]

Originally Posted by robaur

The Canucks are going to coddle and baby Sven Baertschi like the Flames should have done. Different people respond to different treatment. You have to nurture some and be tough on others.

Canucks are going to throw a bunch of ice time at Baertschi and let him figure it out in the NHL and they're going to reap the rewards.

The Flames should have kept him up in the NHL and struggled through his growth with him. That was the only way this was going to work.

Canucks GM Jim Benning already telling the media that he expects Baertschi to play in their Top 6.

and he still may not succeed

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Off the top of my head? No. But do you seriously look at Burke's enire quote and feel as though it qualifies as a "rip"? I don't get it. He was critical. He was honest. In his last paragraph he was also hopeful and confident about Baertschi's future.

I don't get how you can possibly interpret this from such a singularly lopsided perspective.

thank you

As I said before, I always believed that the media was not the correct forum for any of that. You can't think of another example because those examples are difficult to find. Managers know its a mistake to do that.

The Flames could have been unhappy with Baertschi for whatever reason they want. As anyone who met him will tell you, he's a great person and he wears his heart on his sleeve. As a Flames fan, I don't want to see my team do that to anyone else.

I'm very upset because of all places for somebody like him to go, it's Vancouver.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

To some degree or other I see it all the time, is what I mean. When he's in your system, he's going to be good someday; when he's not, he has no real upside.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

You make it seem like it's so common to hit this number.

Zero players are on pace to hit 90 points this season. But yea, Sven is gonna hit 100 with Vancouver.