[News] Kevin Hayes signs with the Rangers

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by edslunch

The difference is that a true cap dump is when you need to trade garbage (e.g. Kotalik) to clear space and you're at the mercy of the team taking that player.

In the Hawks case, if Leddy and Oduya are in play then it's not a pure dump - these guys have value so there is a hockey trade to be made. Yes the Hawks are hamstrung by needing to make a move but it's not too different from if the players had requested trades - you still auction them to the highest bidder, and there will be several, you just won't A grade offers

It's a true cap dump no matter who it is they trade . Doubly so since we know they will not get full value back in return for the player they're trading off.

I don't think I was saying anything different. If players X and Y have a value equal to that of a first round pick in normal circumstances, in the Hawks' situation player X and Y will get you a lesser return than that.

[edslunch]

Ok I interpreted comments as the Hawks should be grateful to give us the rights to Hayes in return for taking these guys off our hands.

[Matt Reeeeead]

Originally Posted by dammage79

It's a true cap dump no matter who it is they trade . Doubly so since we know they will not get full value back in return for the player they're trading off.

I don't think I was saying anything different. If players X and Y have a value equal to that of a first round pick in normal circumstances, in the Hawks' situation player X and Y will get you a lesser return than that.

So you are suggesting a team won't be willing to give up market value for a Leddy or Oduya because of the Blackhawk's situation?

Makes no sense, and completely contrary to the simple rules of supply and demand.

If 10 teams are interested, whoever offers a reasonable trade consistent with the Hawks needs gets him.

A cap dump is harder when we are talking about either a high salaried player, or a terrible player. A $7M player limits the teams that are interested based on cap room.

A terrible player limits the teams interested because they suck, and requires a team prepared to essentially acquire picks for cap room.

That isn't what is happening here. Although the Hawks are moving a player for cap related reasons, thats simply what makes him available. Other teams are going to see a Leddy as a young, potential top 4 guy, with upside, and a low cap hit.

Sorry bud, that has significant value, regardless of the Hawks motivations, and the Flames will have to pay market price to acquire such a player.

[EldrickOnIce]

Should probably go in trade speculation and rumours, but Hawks have signed D Kyle Cumiskey (who played for MODO last year) to a one year contract @ 600k
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=725102

This paves the way to trade a roster D?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

So you are suggesting a team won't be willing to give up market value for a Leddy or Oduya because of the Blackhawk's situation?

Makes no sense, and completely contrary to the simple rules of supply and demand.

If 10 teams are interested, whoever offers a reasonable trade consistent with the Hawks needs gets him.

A cap dump is harder when we are talking about either a high salaried player, or a terrible player. A $7M player limits the teams that are interested based on cap room.

A terrible player limits the teams interested because they suck, and requires a team prepared to essentially acquire picks for cap room.

That isn't what is happening here. Although the Hawks are moving a player for cap related reasons, thats simply what makes him available. Other teams are going to see a Leddy as a young, potential top 4 guy, with upside, and a low cap hit.

Sorry bud, that has significant value, regardless of the Hawks motivations, and the Flames will have to pay market price to acquire such a player.

I never said they weren't going to get nothing back. Just not full value. There is zero reason for any team to do so.

Ribiero and Ward aren't terrible players either and were cap dumps. Nothing happened to them because teams wanted too much. The Hawks are no different.

You're not getting it. I'm not going to repeat myself over multiple posts.
A cap dump is a cap dump is a cap dump. I'm out of this discussion.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

They aren't going to do that because of the cap retention ramifications if he decides to retire early, which the Blackhawks will have no control over if he is traded.

If they were THAT concerned about him being a burden, they should have compliance bought him out where those implications would go away.

To be fair, Hossa is still very good, and plays a puck protection style that I think most will expect to age well. If he can keep playing reasonably effectively until say, age 38 (which is possible with his abilities), then the retention piece won't be as steep, especially with the rising cap.

If they were ever going to trade him, this is the off-season to do it. It doesn't overly effect the cap recapture if he's traded now and retires in a few year.

After next season, he's pretty well untradable because it will jack up their recapture penalty. They are still going to be eating a ton when he retires.

[PeteMoss]

I would assume Versteeg is the first guy they'll try to get rid. Clearing him off the cap would get them (barely) under and with injuries and keeping the roster at the minimum amount of players they can likely make it work.

[thefoss1957]

Jimmy Hayes got a brief look and didn't really impress enough in a system crowded with similar forward talent, Q is quite demanding with young players...J. Hayes had 12 points in 43 games...the 'Hawks still have a bit of a log jam at wing, so Kevin isn't anywhere near having a shot at the NHL roster...and if he feels that his brother was treated badly, then it's best for all that he move on.

[Da_Chief]

If you think the Hawks are in tough right now, wait till next year.

They have ~24 mill in cap space with 8 forwards, 3 dman, 2 goalies signed. They need to sign Kane, Toews, Saad, Kruger, Leddy as RFAs. That alone is going to cost them well over $24 mill. That would be a 18 man roster.

We should try to steal Kruger and/or Leddy while we can.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by thefoss1957

Jimmy Hayes got a brief look and didn't really impress enough in a system crowded with similar forward talent, Q is quite demanding with young players...J. Hayes had 12 points in 43 games...the 'Hawks still have a bit of a log jam at wing, so Kevin isn't anywhere near having a shot at the NHL roster...and if he feels that his brother was treated badly, then it's best for all that he move on.

I took a peak at the Chicago HF board to see what they were thinking of the situation and everyone seemed to be complaining of his attitude on Twitter. I can't find a single disparaging tweet. What's that all about????

[Lanny_McDonald]

Johnny Oduya and the rights to Kevin Hayes for a conditional 4th round pick? The condition that Hayes does sign with the Flames. The guy I would really like to pry out of Chicago is Stephen Johns. Maybe a deal where we add a piece where Chicago is weak or lacking depth in their system. Something along the lines of adding Granlund, Reinhart, Agostini or Hanowski? I might even be enticed to include Baertschi, as long as Hayes was signed sealed and delivered with the deal. Johns would also be a big addition as he has huge potential on the back end as a physical force. I would love to add his 6'4 240 pound right shooting frame to our defensive core. Hayes and Johns as long term adds addresses two major shortcomings in our system. Would be a good long term move IMO.

[sureLoss]

^ I would think the Islanders or Oilers would easily give up a 4th pick for Oduya alone and Hayes will net a 2nd round pick for the Blackhawks in 5 weeks time.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by New Era

Johnny Oduya and the rights to Kevin Hayes for a conditional 4th round pick? The condition that Hayes does sign with the Flames.

Hawks guaranteed a 2nd rounder from the league for Hayes, if he doesn't sign with them. Oduya not by definition a salary dump. I expect he can be had, but that won't work at all.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I never said they weren't going to get nothing back. Just not full value. There is zero reason for any team to do so.

Ribiero and Ward aren't terrible players either and were cap dumps. Nothing happened to them because teams wanted too much. The Hawks are no different.

You're not getting it. I'm not going to repeat myself over multiple posts.
A cap dump is a cap dump is a cap dump. I'm out of this discussion.

I'd have to disagree. Quality players will still bring back market value for the simple fact that a lot of teams will have interest. With multiple offers teams know a low ball offer will not cut it. Ribiero is a poor example. He was bought out a week ago and still no one has picked him up for free and likely at a lower salary.

[anyonebutedmonton]

Originally Posted by New Era

Johnny Oduya and the rights to Kevin Hayes for a conditional 4th round pick? The condition that Hayes does sign with the Flames.

Your proposal assumes that Oduya has negative value. Just because they are cap-strapped does not mean that he would not garner significant interest from multiple teams.

[Lanny_McDonald]

If the Hawks get anything, remotely close to fair market value, for what ever player they are forced to dump, I will be shocked. No one is going to go out of their way to help Chicago out of their pickle. Oduya makes the most sense as his salary is pretty close to the number they need to move. Chicago is going to have to pay to move that guy. $3.375 million is a lot of cap space for anyone to eat. For example, Edmonton, that would put them right up against the cap with a player or two to still account for, two of which are Petry and Schultz on the blueline. When those two get paid, they won't have the space for Oduya. Islanders could definitely take him on and could use a guy like him. That could make the offers interesting.

[sureLoss]

Brad Stuart got a 2nd and a 6th round pick.

A 4th round pick for Oduya is already far below market value.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Brad Stuart was moved as a salary dump?

[FlameZilla]

The Hawks need to shave off some salary, but remain competitive. They need to keep a solid supporting cast around Toews & Kane, but ideally they need to be cheaper players.

Would the very reasonable salary of top-6 forward Curtis Glencross be appealing to them? Would playing for perennial Stanley Cup contender appeal enough to Glencross for him to waive his NMC?

If they replaced one of Hossa ($5.27 million) or Sharp ($5.9 million) with Glencross ($2.5 million) they would make a significant dent on their wage bill.

35 year old Hossa, whose contract runs until the end of time, would be a bit of a salary dump. Hossa & the rights to Hayes for Glencross might be the basis of a good deal for both teams. According to capgeek Hossa doesn't have a NMC. That move alone would get them out of cap trouble (for now) but it would keep them vaguely competitive.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by anyonebutedmonton

Your proposal assumes that Oduya has negative value. Just because they are cap-strapped does not mean that he would not garner significant interest from multiple teams.

With all his playoff experience, Oduya would get you a 2nd rounder at the trade deadline you would think. So if I was the Hawks I would at least ask for that.

Maybe the Flames offer to take Oduya in exchange for a 3rd rounder and then deal him back to the Hawks at the deadline for 2nd rounder. The Flames would also eat 50% of his remaining salary. Probably too risky for what could only be a small improvement in draft position.