[News] Flames claim Joey MacDonald

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

I didn't take all of his family affairs and plane rides into account because every player has to deal with this kind of thing. He's not the only pro to get married, have kids or get called up.

edit: I would also add that to say he lost his starting job in the playoffs is being a little generous. By the time playoffs came around, Taylor was already the go to guy.

Well you started off with this statement.

He hasn't been the starter on the farm for 3 seasons, and he's been waived repeatedly and signed only one year at time. If they had any faith in him, they'd of given him 2 or 3 seasons to settle in and play his role.

It was wrong than and it's wrong now. He's been mostly the starter for the last 3 seasons, not continually but he has been the starter most of the time.

The waiver question, you are completely wrong on so you're whole argument isn't worth discussing. As for my tone, you can crap all over a player with the wrong facts but you don't like being corrected. I get it, you're spoiled little boy.

The other factor with comparing Irving with Taylor is that Irving had proven to some extent he can play in the NHL, Taylor hasn't. There have been lots of hot shot minor league goalies who crap the bed when given an NHL chance. I'm not saying Taylor is among those but he hasn't proven anything yet while Irving has. I also heard Taylor wasn't ready for NHL shooters in his Flames practise, so that's another consideration, maybe why we did this claim.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Well you started off with this statement.



It was wrong than and it's wrong now. He's been mostly the starter for the last 3 seasons, not continually but he has been the starter most of the time.

The waiver question, you are completely wrong on so you're whole argument isn't worth discussing. As for my tone, you can crap all over a player with the wrong facts but you don't like being corrected. I get it, you're spoiled little boy.

The other factor with comparing Irving with Taylor is that Irving had proven to some extent he can play in the NHL, Taylor hasn't. There have been lots of hot shot minor league goalies who crap the bed when given an NHL chance. I'm not saying Taylor is among those but he hasn't proven anything yet while Irving has. I also heard Taylor wasn't ready for NHL shooters in his Flames practise, so that's another consideration, maybe why we did this claim.

Didn't Taylor win 6 in a row with Detroit?

[CalgaryFan1988]

Unless I missed something, he's only had 1 NHL game and he has a GAA of 6

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Seriously? This is the first time I have ever seen anyone suggest Irving has a poor attitude. Do you have any evidence of this not so great attitude? Or is this just something you created in your mind to try and justify a point that is clearly in the minority.

Here you are sir. Calm down.

My brother in law, Michael Wall, was saying that Leland, although he does have decent potential, has one of the worst attitudes he's ever played with. Says he's one of the cockiest teammates he ever had. Michael was the starter in Everett when Leland was a rookie and Leland would get mad that he was the backup despite the fact that Michael had a 1.92 GAA, .931 SV% and 10 SHUTOUTS!

Coupled with the threats to go to Europe. He seems to be one of those guys that thinks he is better than he is.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Hard to really get a gauge on what the detractors want from Irving. I understand that ideally he would make every save, but that's just not feasible.

He shut the Canucks out for almost 30 minutes, backstopped the team to a 1-0 lead and held the fort while the Flames had at least 2 beautiful chances to go up 2-0.

If the expectation is that he stand on his head, then I suggest that we're back to the same old problem with this team: they're not good enough to win unless the goalie (Kipper / whoever) plays out of his mind. The fix isn't to bring in another goalie and make impossible demands of him.

There's no doubt that the team in front of the goalie had issues during the games Irving has started. Looking strictly from a goalie perspective, however, Irving was not comfortable in net. He's let in softies, and had to make big saves where they should have been routine.

In my opinion he doesn't even fit as a backup goalie. There should be no need for "warm-up time" as that's how backups make their living; by being at their best in the few games they do play. Based on his play in the past while in the AHL as well, Irving is not the future goalie of the Flames.

Both the Wild's goal and the shootout were great examples tonight. Irving should not be playing in the NHL right now.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Well you started off with this statement.

It was wrong than and it's wrong now. He's been mostly the starter for the last 3 seasons, not continually but he has been the starter most of the time.

Every time a goalie with any pro game at all has joined the team, he's lost the job to them. He's been the starter out of necessity, not skill.

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The waiver question, you are completely wrong on so you're whole argument isn't worth discussing.

He was waived once as a pro and sent down the ECHL once. I got one fact wrong, that doesn't mean my other correct points are also invalid.

Originally Posted by Vulcan

As for my tone, you can crap all over a player with the wrong facts but you don't like being corrected. I get it, you're spoiled little boy.

I'm a grown man, you should be banned for not being able hold a conversation/discussion/argument without resorting to personal attacks to levy your arguments. You have no reason to attack me and I think the mods should consider that the longer they let posters like yourself run rampant with your cyber bullying, the less the forum serves it purpose of being a safe place to discuss our favorite sport and hockey team.

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The other factor with comparing Irving with Taylor is that Irving had proven to some extent he can play in the NHL, Taylor hasn't. There have been lots of hot shot minor league goalies who crap the bed when given an NHL chance. I'm not saying Taylor is among those but he hasn't proven anything yet while Irving has. I also heard Taylor wasn't ready for NHL shooters in his Flames practise, so that's another consideration, maybe why we did this claim.

Don't be so naive as to think you can needlessly attack me personally and then seamlessly continue your argument, I'm done talking with you, and I'm reporting you to the Mods. Just because you've been here for a decade doesn't mean you can break the rules and foster hostility to your fellow forum goers.

[Fischy13]

MacDonald is here to mentor Irving as Kipper is on his way out. Kipper won't ride the pine mentoring, so MacDonald was available as a great option. Veteran enough, without being too old. Kipper will be moved, no better time than now when there will be the most amount of teams looking for a tender. At the trade deadline teams looking to make a run, or gear up, typically have the goalie in place or they wouldn't be in the position to go for it.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Here you are sir. Calm down.



Coupled with the threats to go to Europe. He seems to be one of those guys that thinks he is better than he is.

and who is that quote from? some random on a message board? a blogger? a reporter? you don't even provide a link with your quote. for all I know you just made that up, not saying you did but how would I know otherwise

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't think there is any question as to Irving's ability to be a very good goaltender. The biggest question mark around him is his consistency. He has only had one season where he was consistently good so far.

He has the ability to make sensational saves. The shootout loss tonight isn't something I would put too much stock into. Kipper was horrible at shootouts early on, but became better with time (though, I wouldn't say Kipper is really good at them even now).

I personally prefer Taylor over Irving right now (and I really preferred Irving when the Heat signed Taylor, and even when Taylor stole the starter's job away from Irving). However, it was always Irving's job to lose, and he lost it every single except one.

People are complaining that the Flames (and Heat) didn't give Irving a fair shake. He has had LOADS of opportunity on the Heat. He isn't an 18 year old rookie. He has been a pro for I think 4 years now (I think), but still hasn't shown consistency yet.

Look back at Giguere or Anderson. Flames were NOT a good development organization because that part of the organization was barely even around. Some shared AHL teams, affiliations with others that preferred to play vets and 'win now' over properly developing rookies, etc. That has all changed. Flames are still working on the magic formula from that standpoint (Darryl was preferring all prospects and losing, but letting the prospects have all the big minutes, vs a more blended approach that is happening now with them keeping some vets and trying the 'winning environment' theory).

Irving has had a lot of opportunity. The Calgary Flames are not a 'development team' - they are an NHL team. Your players have to at least be at an acceptable level of performance and consistency in order for the organization to have success as a whole (and yes, the Flames are not experiencing this success at the moment - but they are at least trying to be successful).

I would argue that this season, Irving was 'given' the back-up position and two better and more consistent goalies on the Heat were not even offered the chance to compete for that position. The Flames have shown a preference for Irving, but Irving has not yet developed into a fully capable starter.

I think by getting MacDonald, it shows that the Flames are on the verge of giving up (or Kipper is more seriously hurt than rumored).

Irving has been better this game. I was really curious to see how he would react tonight. He played a decent game today. I don't think he was all that great in Van (some spectacular saves, but way too much bobbled pucks and poor rebounds). He was MUCH better today, but I fully expected him to get eaten alive on the shootouts - just inexperienced in those.

At the end of the day, one just has to wonder when an organization gives up on a prospect. At some point, a prospect has to 'earn' his place on a team. He either steps up, or he doesn't. Irving looked good tonight, but there weren't many really good scoring chances either to measure his work (but at least he wasn't really bobbling anything, which is a great sign). I personally prefer Taylor because he has been CONSISTENTLY better than Irving in the AHL, and if a prospect can't be reasonably consistent in the AHL - even while showing flashes of brilliance - he sure as heck is not going to be consistently good in the NHL.

Will Irving ever be a #1 goalie in this league? NOBODY can definitely say yes or no. However, as an organization, when do you cut bait? You still have Ortio possibly coming over from Europe next season, you have Brossoit turning pro next season, and you have Ramo coming over from Europe. Will they be better or worse than Irving? Do you still push Irving on the Heat and remove development time for potentially two good goalies (Brossoit and Ortio) to develop and show what they got, or do you keep him on the Flames and force a Kipper trade or Ramo trade?

This is the last season I think you have Irving around for. He either breaks out, or he doesn't. I am not sure what happens now with MacDonald. My only guess is that the Flames are turning the page on Irving. Nothing else really makes sense - beyond further speculation on upcoming trades (i.e. Kipper is moving on).

Irving is a good prospect. He DOES have potential. How long do you wait, and at what cost to the organization's future prospects? He may NEVER develop into a starter, so do you waste the opportunity for someone else to develop into one, or do you keep trying to develop Irving into that role and take the chance that he will be Calgary's future?

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

and who is that quote from? some random on a message board? a blogger? a reporter? you don't even provide a link with your quote. for all I know you just made that up, not saying you did but how would I know otherwise

Says in the quote

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

There's no doubt that the team in front of the goalie had issues during the games Irving has started. Looking strictly from a goalie perspective, however, Irving was not comfortable in net. He's let in softies, and had to make big saves where they should have been routine.

In my opinion he doesn't even fit as a backup goalie. There should be no need for "warm-up time" as that's how backups make their living; by being at their best in the few games they do play. Based on his play in the past while in the AHL as well, Irving is not the future goalie of the Flames.

Both the Wild's goal and the shootout were great examples tonight. Irving should not be playing in the NHL right now.

Exactly my thoughts, the Mikko Koivu Shootout attempt sums up Leland Irving. He's always sliding/looking West? He is looking completely the wrong way as the goal went in. It's called guessing and he looks absolutely uncomfortable on the most routine saves, always sliding, sliding, sliding.

I was hoping for this kid, more than anyone before him, he's been through things in his life that most of us would be unable to overcome. But, its clear, Flames Management is seeing the same thing (apparently a very few of us on CP are) and he's likely played his way out of a Flames Jersey.

This was the wrong season for a lockout, for a new coach and for a rookie goaltender.

[blender]

Wow. This board is so angry right now. Can't we all just get along?

It's ironic to me because it seems like there is a consensus that the Flames are not a very good team, yet people still take the loss so hard they lash out at each other.

I'm as disappointed as the next guy (I think), but hey, there's another game coming right up.

[CalgaryFan1988]

When the Flames drafted Irving I remember them saying they loved his personality and that he was a real nice guy. Also had a whole thing about a never quit attitude and his battle with cancer. Why would they say one of the reasons they liked him was because of his good attitude, if the truth was the complete opposite?

[Caged Great]

I think the reason why they got MacDonald was because of reports of Taylor looking not so good in practice. He was having a hard time adjusting to NHL shooters, which is kind of not good in case Irving goes down.

Getting Joey Mac at least gives you a 3rd NHL goalie. I also don't think Kipper will be back till probably the end of next week at the earliest. Just an insurance policy.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I think the reason why they got MacDonald was because of reports of Taylor looking not so good in practice. He was having a hard time adjusting to NHL shooters, which is kind of not good in case Irving goes down.

Getting Joey Mac at least gives you a 3rd NHL goalie. I also don't think Kipper will be back till probably the end of next week at the earliest. Just an insurance policy.

Yeap. I heard those reports as well, and if they are true the Flames could not stand pat.

[$ven27]

Hopefully the guy impresses, even though he probably won't play too much once Kipper gets back. Still though, guy's from my small home town, gotta root for him.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

When the Flames drafted Irving I remember them saying they loved his personality and that he was a real nice guy. Also had a whole thing about a never quit attitude and his battle with cancer. Why would they say one of the reasons they liked him was because of his good attitude, if the truth was the complete opposite?

Maybe he has a different face for management than he does for team mates. Wouldn't be the first time someone is a kiss ass to their boss and a dick to everyone else.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeap. I heard those reports as well, and if they are true the Flames could not stand pat.

I am curious to why we are putting so much stake in these claims, Roger Millions tweeted that he looked fine in practice... and how many days has he even been with the team? Did that little quip come out of his first two days of practice? I'd take it with a grain of salt.

[Vulcan]

I'm a grown man, you should be banned for not being able hold a conversation/discussion/argument without resorting to personal attacks to levy your arguments. You have no reason to attack me and I think the mods should consider that the longer they let posters like yourself run rampant with your cyber bullying, the less the forum serves it purpose of being a safe place to discuss our favorite sport and hockey team.

Me telling you to be quiet unless you have the right facts is getting personal? Well maybe it was but you deserved it. Far too many posters get on here and start spouting off as if they have all the answers, when they don't. I follow the Heat as well and before that when they were in Quad Cities and before that in Omaha and before that in St. John and before that in Salt Lake City and in Denver, and I'm probably on that board as often as I'm over here and I know the problems that Irving has had but you were going way over the top with your statements.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Maybe he has a different face for management than he does for team mates. Wouldn't be the first time someone is a kiss ass to their boss and a dick to everyone else.

Yeah, I'm sure coaches never hear about a player being an ass to teammates. Especially if they had a better option in net like you're suggesting they did in Everett.

He probably won't be a Flame by next season regardless.