Golf!!!2!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Ummm, I hate to break it to you, but some bad shots in a round is not a bad luck you thing it's an every golfer thing. If someone is shooting 77, they had some bad shots and putts just like you did, but they don't get to say they're a par golfer minus 5-6 missed shots.

This is so accurate. I'm a consistent 74-78 shooter, and it's usually a result of a single bad swing on a hole or two. There are days where you just don't have a swing and are scrambling to get up and down, but for the most part, it's fairways and greens. Those are usually the statistics to track - fairways hit, and greens in regulation. If you are 80-90% in each of those, you are going to have a great score. If you're 20-30% in each, you're going to have a long day.

As a golfer you have accept bad shots are going to happen. The game is all about minimizing the damage from those shots. Try and keep your misses from causing big numbers. Take one lump instead of trying to make the hero shot and causing multiple lumps. Fairways and greens should be the mantra. If you miss the fairway in a bad way, make sure you advance the ball to place where you can hit the middle of the green on the next shot with a high degree of consistency. From the middle of the green you should be able to two putt and get out with minimal damage. It's when you don't follow this strategy that big numbers appear. The difference between high and low handicappers is how they manage their misses. You want to get better, learn to hit more fairways and greens, and manage your misses so you only take bogey.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Ummm, I hate to break it to you, but some bad shots in a round is not a bad luck you thing it's an every golfer thing. If someone is shooting 77, they had some bad shots and putts just like you did, but they don't get to say they're a par golfer minus 5-6 missed shots.

i hear ya but to further clarify the current state of my game - for 13 or 14 holes i am bogey or double (with the odd par or two mixed in); however, it is the remaining 4/5 holes that push me into triple digits. these are the whiffed hits, crappy chips or sand trap outs and putts that are short.

generally speaking playing bogey puts a golfer at somewhere around 90, add a few doubles you are at 96 - then toss in some 8's and maybe subtract two par's and viola - 105 which is where i am at.

i would be thrilled to be a 95 to 98 player.

i have been really happy with my driver; however, i feel i hit the ball really high relative to most others i have golfed with (think rainbow versus those penetrating drives) - so i was thinking about looking into a different shaft for my driver this winter; however, i forgot i could adjust the loft of my driver (taylormade sim2), so i did that and will tinker at the range sometime in the next few days to see how that impacts my shots as i would rather that the energy spent hitting the ball higher, be spent sending it forward (but maybe my swing is effed) and i am hitting as far as i can right now.

given my wife is becoming keener about golfing, i am going to look at some couples lessons as a potential x-mas gift

[Hockeyguy15]

Your game is your game, you can't ignore the bad holes and say you shoot X minus a few holes.

[Tron_fdc]

The guy I played with yesterday (I'm guessing a 6-8 handicap) was +1 over thru 13 holes, driving HUGE bombs, irons working and was putting great.

Guy pulls out the 3W on the par 4 14, says he's going to play safe golf the rest of the way, and proceeds to put up a string of bogeys, doubles and a NINE on the finishing par 5 for a gross 82.

I would have quit golf.

[mrkajz44]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Your game is your game, you can't ignore the bad holes and say you shoot X minus a few holes.

Yup - for me it was all about avoiding those 8+ scores and suddenly I was playing much closer to 90 than 100. The bad holes will come along for sure, but the key is to make them only so bad.

At my level (handicap 15) when I lose a ball or dunk one in the water I have to re-think that a double bogey is now good and even a triple can be stomached from time to time. It really changes my mindset on a hole and seems to help me avoid the big numbers. I'll usually just end up with a double and move on without hurting the score too bad.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Your game is your game, you can't ignore the bad holes and say you shoot X minus a few holes.

thanks - how about this - i am a crappy golfer who routinely shoots around 110.....

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

thanks - how about this - i am a crappy golfer who routinely shoots around 110.....

No judgement, I shoot low 90's and have my own issues to worry about.

[8sPOT]

This probably isn't unique or anything but I find my struggles are always with shots that don't require a full swing.

Tee shots and approach shots generally I hit pretty well. Its when I'm within say 100 yards and have to start doing 3/4, 1/2, or 1/4 swings that I seem to get into trouble.

Because of this, I often won't hit drive on a par 4 but instead a 5 or 6 iron. I'd rather be say 125 yards from the hole than 60 yards.

Anyone else play like that? I can crush a drive 330 yards but then that 2nd shot I almost always flub it or chunk it, again not a full swing type shot. What a game.

[Tron_fdc]

My normal playing partner (about a 1 HDCP) hits drives in that range, and he's ALWAYS trying to lengthen the yardage coming in. He'll hit a 3W 280 yards instead of driver so he has a full swing on the approach.

I think that's totally normal and a big part of golf. You should always try to set your next shot up, not just swing for the fences and figure it out from there.

[Discoste]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

This is so accurate. I'm a consistent 74-78 shooter, and it's usually a result of a single bad swing on a hole or two. There are days where you just don't have a swing and are scrambling to get up and down, but for the most part, it's fairways and greens. Those are usually the statistics to track - fairways hit, and greens in regulation. If you are 80-90% in each of those, you are going to have a great score. If you're 20-30% in each, you're going to have a long day.

While this is true, is it realistic for recreational golfers to be hitting more than 10 GIR??

5 GIR sets up for bogey golf, which could be the a great day for most.

From 130 yards from the fairway, 21% of shots from PGA tour players MISS the green.

Takeaway: Manage Your Expectations

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by 8sPOT

This probably isn't unique or anything but I find my struggles are always with shots that don't require a full swing.

Tee shots and approach shots generally I hit pretty well. Its when I'm within say 100 yards and have to start doing 3/4, 1/2, or 1/4 swings that I seem to get into trouble.

Because of this, I often won't hit drive on a par 4 but instead a 5 or 6 iron. I'd rather be say 125 yards from the hole than 60 yards.

Anyone else play like that? I can crush a drive 330 yards but then that 2nd shot I almost always flub it or chunk it, again not a full swing type shot. What a game.

If I can be 100-150 into the green I am happy, so that's generally how I plan off the tee.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Discoste

While this is true, is it realistic for recreational golfers to be hitting more than 10 GIR??

5 GIR sets up for bogey golf, which could be the a great day for most.

From 130 yards from the fairway, 21% of shots from PGA tour players MISS the green.

Takeaway: Manage Your Expectations

Until you start getting paid to "play the game," you're a recreational golfer. There are very different levels of recreational golfers, which is why saying improve your FIR and GIR to improve your score. You'll notice the major gap between the two measures 80-90% (14-16 GIR) = great round, while 20-30% (2-3 GIR) = poor round. This is the same for all golfers regardless of skill level. Even if you're a 2 index and you're only hitting 2-3 GIR you're in for a big score. If you're a 28 index and you hit 14-16 GIR, you're going to have a career low score. So you're right, manage your expectations, but maybe start by managing the course properly.

If you really want to get better, learn how to play the game better? That means when you get in trouble, take a lump and hit the 8 out of 10 shot, not pull out 3 wood in the deep rough and try to make the 1 out of 1,000 shot. Set yourself up for success, not for more heartache. Get back in the fairway to a yardage where you can consistently hit the green. Would you prefer a single kick in the balls, or to be repeatedly kicked in the balls? Get better by hitting more FIR and GIR.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by 8sPOT

This probably isn't unique or anything but I find my struggles are always with shots that don't require a full swing.

Tee shots and approach shots generally I hit pretty well. Its when I'm within say 100 yards and have to start doing 3/4, 1/2, or 1/4 swings that I seem to get into trouble.

Because of this, I often won't hit drive on a par 4 but instead a 5 or 6 iron. I'd rather be say 125 yards from the hole than 60 yards.

Anyone else play like that? I can crush a drive 330 yards but then that 2nd shot I almost always flub it or chunk it, again not a full swing type shot. What a game.

That's a great approach to the game and how many pros play the game. Think the game backward. Start at the green and decide what is going to give you the best chance of scoring. What is your best distance into the green? That is your starting place. I'm most comfortable at 125 yards myself, but an equally proficient at 100 yards, so I try and play every tee shot with that in mind. If I'm on the tee of a 360 yard par 4, I'm looking to hit something 240-260. Driver stays in the bag and I either hit 3 wood or 2 iron (the only time driver comes out of the bag is if I'm on a hole over 400 yards, and have a generous landing area). Play to your scoring yardages. This will help in you hitting more fairways and green in regulation.

The reason most high handicappers score so poorly is because they don't approach the game with scoring in mind. They approach it with the grip-and-rip mentality and then are hitting from really poor locations to hit the green in regulation with any regularity. The one thing that really helped me over this hump was playing with better players, watching their club selection, and how they managed the course. Remember, you manage the course, don't let the course manage you. Set yourself up for success by hitting off the short stuff rather than the thick heavy rough. Better to give up 20 yards in distance and be in the fairway with an 8 out 10 shot than be buried in the rough and have a 1 in 100 shot.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by 8sPOT

This probably isn't unique or anything but I find my struggles are always with shots that don't require a full swing.

Tee shots and approach shots generally I hit pretty well. Its when I'm within say 100 yards and have to start doing 3/4, 1/2, or 1/4 swings that I seem to get into trouble.

Because of this, I often won't hit drive on a par 4 but instead a 5 or 6 iron. I'd rather be say 125 yards from the hole than 60 yards.

Anyone else play like that? I can crush a drive 330 yards but then that 2nd shot I almost always flub it or chunk it, again not a full swing type shot. What a game.

Absolutely. I eventually realized that I was better off at 100 yards than 40-70 yards. So I stopped hitting it as far as I could (which resulted in bad shots), and started targeting 100 yards. Two things happened: first, it was easier, because laying up to 100 yards generally meant a shorter club, and second, the more I hit from 100, the better I got at it. I also started practicing 100 yards over and over, and it became the strength of my game.

I let the other guys be the heroes, I play my game and as a result am more consistent.

[Bobblehead]

Silverwing is in the process or re-opening with new owners and a new name: Wingfield.

Only 9 of the holes are fully open, 9 more are on temp greeens. The final 9 is closed because they had to re-seed the greens. But the rates are pretty darn cheap right now, if anyone is looking for a quick 9.
It would be nice if this group gets the course up to snuff. It was a decent layout, just in terrible condition whenever I played it.

https://www.wingfieldgolf.ca

[mrkajz44]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Absolutely. I eventually realized that I was better off at 100 yards than 40-70 yards. So I stopped hitting it as far as I could (which resulted in bad shots), and started targeting 100 yards. Two things happened: first, it was easier, because laying up to 100 yards generally meant a shorter club, and second, the more I hit from 100, the better I got at it. I also started practicing 100 yards over and over, and it became the strength of my game.

I let the other guys be the heroes, I play my game and as a result am more consistent.

I know it seems I'm obsessed with tee boxes right now, but this discussion has me thinking. If you are forced to not hit driver off the tee because the resulting approach shot will be too short (less than 100 yards / partial swing) then aren't you playing too far forward?

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

My normal playing partner (about a 1 HDCP) hits drives in that range, and he's ALWAYS trying to lengthen the yardage coming in. He'll hit a 3W 280 yards instead of driver so he has a full swing on the approach.

I think that's totally normal and a big part of golf. You should always try to set your next shot up, not just swing for the fences and figure it out from there.

I have spent a lot of the last two months learning to hit 1/2, 2/3, and 3/4 shots. Most of my practice and warm up is with the smaller swings, and gradually lengthening them. It helps me get my tempo right and it makes my transition to the downswing smoother. It has really helped on the course when I get to the in between shots (over swing an 8 iron or hit an easy 7 iron) or get too close to the green for a full shot (e.g. 60 yards).



While watching golf on TV one day they were talking about laying up and/or hitting it to a shorter distance to leave a full club in. The commentators said the math does not favour laying up.


Here's an article from GolfTec. https://golf.com/instruction/two-charts-lay-up-golftec/


The big takeaway for me was that PGA players make 10% more putts, on average, for every one foot closer they are to the hole inside eight feet. The closer you are to the hole, the more likely you are to sink your putt. Pros (obviously I am not one) hit it one foot closer to the hole from 50 yards than they do from 75 yards. This distance to the hole gets wider the larger the handicap and the further out the person is. A mid 90s player might think they like hitting it to 125, but they actually hit it closer to the hole from 100. They hit it substantially closer to the hole when they are 75 yards out.



From the link:

There’s no range — for any skill level — where laying up to a favorite number, club or any other “favorite” makes mathematical sense if your other option is to send your next shot farther up the fairway (even if it ends up in light rough). The rub is that most golfers, especially weekend players, overestimate the potential success of hitting a 4-iron to a “preferred” layup yardage and underestimate the odds of hitting a 3-wood into a safe position nearer the hole. Send it when you can is your best strategy when you can lay up to any distance you want. After that, your next priority is to learn to hit your intended shots better because, ahem, you’re doing it wrong.

I have read a few of these type of articles. The math overwhelming says to hit it further down the fairway instead of the laying up, regardless of your skill level. To clarify, this does not mean to hit it further when there are bunkers, water hazards, trees, a herd of wolves, etc. in a certain area of the hole. Those you need to avoid, so it may make sense to lay up if you can't get over the water in one stroke.



Do I follow this advice all the time? Of course not. Sometimes it just feels right to hit a hybrid off the tee on a par 5 to make sure I can keep it in bounds. Am I going for it more? I am, and a lot of it is coming from the confidence I have in hitting chips, pitches, and 3/4 shots, as well as knowing I can get it out of the bunker.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

I know it seems I'm obsessed with tee boxes right now, but this discussion has me thinking. If you are forced to not hit driver off the tee because the resulting approach shot will be too short (less than 100 yards / partial swing) then aren't you playing too far forward?

No. Tee boxes are designed to challenge a player's game, not make them hit a certain club off the tee. A great player can play from any tee box because they have command over all their clubs. Put them at the back or the front of the golf course and it really doesn't matter, because they can hit everything and they think the game well. The only reason I like the back of the golf course is it forces me to hit more long irons as second shots and makes me scramble more. It is a challenge to my complete game, and not just because I have to hit driver. More often than not, I will let the people pick the tees to play from as it just means different clubs to me.

The way I pick the tees to play is to look at the par threes and look for variety. I think you've hit the limit when you set yourself up for shots you can't hit on the par threes. Stick in your wheelhouse on the par threes and you should have a very comfortable round and have some fun.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

While watching golf on TV one day they were talking about laying up and/or hitting it to a shorter distance to leave a full club in. The commentators said the math does not favour laying up.

I commend you on your diligence in mastering those shots. As to the article, you are also talking about the best players in the world who spend three quarters of their practice session working on short game. Amateurs do not have the highly developed feel game these guys have. Most amateurs rarely practice their short game, let alone hitting quarter, half, or three quarter shots. I get the principle, but application is another thing. Most players struggle with hitting full shots, so suggesting they play to the weakest part of their game, and then try to master the half shot doesn't make sense. Play to your strengths and you'll lower your scores quicker and have more fun on the course.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

I have spent a lot of the last two months learning to hit 1/2, 2/3, and 3/4 shots. Most of my practice and warm up is with the smaller swings, and gradually lengthening them. It helps me get my tempo right and it makes my transition to the downswing smoother. It has really helped on the course when I get to the in between shots (over swing an 8 iron or hit an easy 7 iron) or get too close to the green for a full shot (e.g. 60 yards).

I started this exact process earlier this summer with my instructor. Had a playing lesson with him first for two hours where we focused a bit on course management and worked on scoring shots. Basically anything <100y in, and stuff around the greens and bunkers.

Then went back to the studio later in the week and dialed in the wedges from three "positions" 9, 10 and 11 o'clock and two grip positions on Trackman.

Picture below is the output.

Side note: hitting 120 wedges in an hour trying to keep the same speed is really, really hard.