Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[driveway]

Originally Posted by sun

Probably rules out Nurse at 6 then?

Yeah, I was going to ask this. Nurse is the only first round prospect I can think of who's had the label "project" attached to him this year. Who are the other guys who are on the board, but are clearly projects? Maybe JT Compher? Gauthier? Fucale is a goalie, who are always projects, Burakovsky?

Does this rule them out as selections with the STL or PIT picks, or was Feaster specifically speaking about the #6 selection?

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Mark Giordano for Oilers 7th Pick

Draft Nikushkin and Lindholm

Penguins 1st+Jackman for Tyler Myers (with that crazy contract and was scratched)

Giordano+Pens 1st+Jackman for Myers+Nichuskin

Draft a dman with the blues pick.

Now, that I like but will never happen

While I may sound like a dick, that is not the intention, but you need to get the idea of getting Myers for essentially nothing out of your head.

He doesn't have that crazy of a contract and is 23. Buffalo won't be trading him anytime soon unless they can get really good value back for him.

[Poe969]

I'm not too sure about that. It just seems like Myers has fallen out of favour in buffalo and they might just want to change things up. He's a player I think the Flames should target and I think he could be had. Maybe the pens pick + Tangs or something for Myers and second or something

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I'm not too sure about that. It just seems like Myers has fallen out of favour in buffalo and they might just want to change things up. He's a player I think the Flames should target and I think he could be had. Maybe the pens pick + Tangs or something for Myers and second or something

You want Myers, it's to take a whole lot more than a late 1st and Tanguay,and for them to add a 2nd is just ridiculous.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by T@T

Did he elaborate why or did he just say it for edmonton radio knowing the flames will probably take him.

I fail to see why all these "experts" are dropping a consensual top 3 pick one year ago anywhere from 4-7 spots because he played on a brutal team.

78 points in 58 games and lead his team by 38 points in scoring doesn't scream of a player regressing to me.

Doesn't "scream a player regressing to me" either. If anything it intrigues me that with a good team Monahan would have had 90+ points. He certainly would not have been -18 on a good team.

[Matty81]

I wonder how sold on Myers Buffalo still is... his production and play has been in decline for a three years now pretty much since his rookie year and he still has 6 seasons at a 5.5 million dollar cap hit left. That cap hit is a major gamble to take on with the cap going down for a guy who has been that erratic.

I could see Buffalo cutting their losses but not at the draft, I don't think they are giving up on him yet, but if they have another brutal start and he plays badly again they might just cut their losses and offload the contract a few months in.

[PlayfulGenius]

If he's available, I bet SJS would make an agressive play for him... and get him working with Larry Robinson... he'd be on All-Star form in no time!

[T@T]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Doesn't "scream a player regressing to me" either. If anything it intrigues me that with a good team Monahan would have had 90+ points. He certainly would not have been -18 on a good team.

I think more like 100+ if he had anyone to play with.

His wingers were:

Stralen, can hardly skate but managed 39 points
Blandisi, got a point per game with Monahan after coming over from Owen Sound. he wasn't near a PPG guy before.

His old winger Janes had 27 points in 36 games with Monahan before being traded, after the trade he had 9 points in the next 26.

When you look at it he makes his linemates better, he was in on 15% of his teams total points despite only playing 58 games, without looking I doubt any of the other top guys beat this.

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by T@T

I think more like 100+ if he had anyone to play with.

His wingers were:

Stralen, can hardly skate but managed 39 points
Blandisi, got a point per game with Monahan after coming over from Owen Sound. he wasn't near a PPG guy before.

His old winger Janes had 27 points in 36 games with Monahan before being traded, after the trade he had 9 points in the next 26.

When you look at it he makes his linemates better, he was in on 15% of his teams total points despite only playing 58 games, without looking I doubt any of the other top guys beat this.

What % of their goals was he in on... That's a more relevant stat... And how does that stat compare to Drouin and MacKinnon?

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

What % of their goals was he in on... That's a more relevant stat... And how does that stat compare to Drouin and MacKinnon?

40.8% (78 pts on 191 team goals). Not sure about Drouin or MacKinnon, but I'd imagine they would have to be much lower. That number is astronomical.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

40.8% (78 pts on 191 team goals). Not sure about Drouin or MacKinnon, but I'd imagine they would have to be much lower. That number is astronomical.

Just looking at regular season numbers, Droin was 30.6% (105 on 343 team goals) and MacKinnon was 21.8% (75 pts on 343 team goals)

[Roof-Daddy]

Those numbers won't be entirely accurate, as one would have to account for injuries.

The percentages would rise as a result.

[Savvy27]

I'm fully on board with picking Monahan if we are unable to move up. Outside of his not being a surefire superstar, he suits the Flames needs to a tee. Of the players outside the top four, perhaps even including Barkov, he is as likely as anyone else to be a first line star player.

As the ISS head scout said, he had no opportunity to boost his draft stock because of his age at the U-18s, he was cut from the U-20 team (unfortunate, but not uncommon for draft eligible players--with the coach who cut him saying, ""He has elite hockey sense," Spott said of Monahan. "He is just one of those players who can play in any situation - 5-on-5, 5-on-4, on your [penalty kill]. Sean has that innate ability. He is going to be an elite* NHL player. There is no doubt about that."). His OHL team was awful so he didn't play in the playoffs.

Despite that, he has remained on the radar in the top 7 or 8 of most lists. Even if he is not being underrated, he is still a very fine prospect who brings crucial elements to a team.

*Emphasis mine

[Flames Draft Watcher]

My personal ranking based on what I've read/seen so far. Might change after I get a few of the draft guides. It has been adjusted with long team organization needs being the tie breaker when players are closely ranked.

1. MacKinnon
2. Barkov
3. Jones
4. Drouin
5. Lindholm
6. Monahan
7. Nichushkin

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

My personal ranking based on what I've read/seen so far. Might change after I get a few of the draft guides. It has been adjusted with long team organization needs being the tie breaker when players are closely ranked.

1. MacKinnon
2. Barkov
3. Jones
4. Drouin
5. Lindholm
6. Monahan
7. Nichushkin

Outside of my personal preference on Nichushkin at 5 this is my view as well. Doesn't sound like the Flames are as high on the Russian as I am though.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Here's an interesting hypothetical question. Imagine the Flames have Nichushkin top 5 on their list in terms of talent but without taking into consideration the Russian Factor and his contractual situation.

Might one of the reasons why the Flames are eager to trade up be that they want to avoid the dilemma of having a top 5 pick available in Nichushkin while being extremely squeamish about taking him?

I'm really hoping Feaster can negotiate a reasonable price to move up.

Worst case scenario for me is we have Nichushkin ranked top 5 on talent and then Jones, MacKinnon, Drouin and Barkov all go and we take Nichushkin at #6 over Lindholm/Monahan adding yet another LWer to a team that has their best prospects at LW (Baertschi, Gaudreau) and a ton of NHLers at the postion as well (Tanguay, Cammalleri, Glencross). Nichushkin may be a great talent but two reasons to not take him are the redundancy of adding another top 2 line LW and the chance he defects back to Russia whenever things aren't going well. It just makes so much more sense to try and get a franchise centre. If trading up is the best way to get a franchise centre then lets get it done. I'd be most ecstatic about landing MacKinnon or Barkov.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

My personal ranking based on what I've read/seen so far. Might change after I get a few of the draft guides. It has been adjusted with long team organization needs being the tie breaker when players are closely ranked.

1. MacKinnon
2. Barkov
3. Jones
4. Drouin
5. Lindholm
6. Monahan
7. Nichushkin

Yeah, that looks good considering Flames needs and players talent. One thing though, I'd prefer Monahan over Lindholm but the other thing is Monahan might be gone when they call us.

One more thing, I wouldn't touch Nichushkin with a ten foot pole but I'll try not to lose it if it happens, trusting that our management knows what they are doing this time.

About Nichushkin, although he's a left shot, I've noticed he's listed as a RW. From what I've read, this is common positioning in Russia but it may not work out for him here.

[jg13]

If Monahan was centering Drouin on the Mooseheads I wonder how different the discussion would be between Lindholm/Monahan.

Sure you could make the arguement "if Lindholm was centering Drouin he'd put up just as many points." But when Monahan is considered the Best Defensive forward in the draft and still putting up amazing numbers on a terrible team plus he has 2-3 inches on Lindholm.. I think you have to take him over Lindholm.

[Matty81]

I like Monahan too but I dunno if it's that clearcut, Lindholm had a reputation for good defensive play and put up a lot of points on a bad team too, but in a way better league. When they do that NHL equivalency translating their performance to the NHL level based on toughness of the league, Lindholm was better offensively by a good margin, I thnk he would have scored 40 points in the NHL last year, as a 17 year old, where Monahan was 33 points.

The only clear advantage I agree with is the height factor, but Lindholm isn't so small I'm concerned and by most scouting reports Lindholm is a way better skater which I think is more important in the NHL these days.

Concern I'd have based on the numbers and articles I've read is that Lindholm scored most of his points on the powerplay and his shooting percentage was a little high, wonder if his goals were a bit inflated. Hopefully our scouting staff has seen them play a ton and has a good idea if he got a bit lucky or has a real good shot.

Starting to suspect Lindholm may be gone by our pick anyway and as mentioned before it may even be between Nichushkin vs Monahan anyway.

[calgARI]

The more I read about Monahan the more it seems he is being underrated. A better team situation and this guy is ranked higher. Only comparisons I've seen regularly are Staal, Toews, M. Koivu. Seems that if MacKinnon and Barkov are gone, you go Monahan - organization hasn't had anything like any of these three guys in two decades.

Conroy's comments about wanting someone who can make a more immediate impact indicates this team is walking away with one of these three, Nichuskin, or Jones.