Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I think that's partly why the Flames would pursue high profile UFA's to lighten the blow of Johnny leaving. Guys like Forsberg and potentially Kadri in place of Johhny and Matthew?

Johnny leaves for nothing, we cant stop that.
But if he goes, I'm all for unloading Matthew for a haul of assets rather than keep him for 1 more year.

NJ Fans/media saying they would give up 1 of Mercer/Holtz + the 2nd O/A for Tkachuk seems like the deal I would accept.
We instantly get 2 high profile A+ prospects to our meek pool outside of Coranato.

Use the money to go after Forsberg for sure, and then whatever else we can get to help the team.

I think that would be the best move possible if johnny walks. It would make our prospect pool so strong. Would only take 2 years or so to get us in a great spot.

I guess we wait and see. I still just hope we get a Johnny signing!

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It's not the team's choice. It's Tkachuk's decision as to whether he signs the QA.
So if that's the route he takes then I think you start to consider moving him.

Forfeiting all of the control of the situation over to the players was always going to lead to this. I understand the Flames trying to win with the group but the organization and its fans are now faced with results of an organization (maybe ownership?) that was not willing to accept short term pain for long term gain. Now we are staring at long term pain for what was short term gains. It was a great regular season but that is all the team has to show for what could be Gaudreau's career as a Flame and Tkachuk's a year from now.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Forfeiting all of the control of the situation over to the players was always going to lead to this. I understand the Flames trying to win with the group but the organization and its fans are now faced with results of an organization (maybe ownership?) that was not willing to accept short term pain for long term gain. Now we are staring at long term pain for what was short term gains. It was a great regular season but that is all the team has to show for what could be Gaudreau's career as a Flame and Tkachuk's a year from now.

All very true, but there are dozens of teams that can say the same thing.

You roll the dice and take your changes.

With 32 teams, the odds are always stacked against you.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

All very true, but there are dozens of teams that can say the same thing.

You roll the dice and take your changes.

With 32 teams, the odds are always stacked against you.

Well, except for those teams who make it a point to lock up their stars long term before they get to UFA status or move on from them before their contract expires and they lose them for nothing.

[Psytic]

Feels eerily similar to that one year Columbus went all in than lost all their stars. Hoping the Flames have a better fate.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Well, except for those teams who make it a point to lock up their stars long term before they get to UFA status or move on from them before their contract expires and they lose them for nothing.

Ironically Tampa and Colorado just played for the Cup after signing Stamkos and Landeskog in the 12th hour.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

All very true, but there are dozens of teams that can say the same thing.

You roll the dice and take your changes.

With 32 teams, the odds are always stacked against you.

Yep and losing Gaudreau for nothing will massively increase the odd stacked against them. I believe as a GM you can never let yourself get into situations where you lose leverage over your assets. It's only forgivable if you are a team on the cusp of winning a cup like the Avalanche, Lightning or even Panthers. Flames were coming off a miserable 2020/2021 season and were not a team on the cusp of winning anything so this was clearly a bad miscalculation by management. I really enjoyed the last season but fan memories are short and the reality is that we are facing the slow decline of this team. There's no blue chip players in the organization to replace Gaudreau or Tkachuk. I'm sure Treliving may be able to sign a UFA or two to slow the bleeding but the team is going to get worse and not even Darryl Sutter's coaching is going to be able to overcome that.

As a day one Calgary Flames fan I've been through a lot of the ups and downs (mostly downs) and as I have aged I get a little less upset about all the disappointments, missteps, and just focus on day to day enjoyment of being a fan as that's really all there is. I know Treliving won't be the last GM of the Flames and I hold out hope the next GM will be able to do what he couldn't and that's build a Stanley Cup winning roster. All you can do as a fan is hope for better days ahead.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Ironically Tampa and Colorado just played for the Cup after signing Stamkos and Landeskog in the 12th hour.

Yes...both are desirable locations apparently with extremely well run teams that patiently built through the draft. Reality is that the Flames don't have the same to offer currently.

Canadian city, crap areana, ect.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yep and losing Gaudreau for nothing will massively increase the odd stacked against them. I believe as a GM you can never let yourself get into situations where you lose leverage over your assets. It's only forgivable if you are a team on the cusp of winning a cup like the Avalanche, Lightning or even Panthers. Flames were coming off a miserable 2020/2021 season and were not a team on the cusp of winning anything so this was clearly a bad miscalculation by management. I really enjoyed the last season but fan memories are short and the reality is that we are facing the slow decline of this team. There's no blue chip players in the organization to replace Gaudreau or Tkachuk. I'm sure Treliving may be able to sign a UFA or two to slow the bleeding but the team is going to get worse and not even Darryl Sutter's coaching is going to be able to overcome that.

As a day one Calgary Flames fan I've been through a lot of the ups and downs (mostly downs) and as I have aged I get a little less upset about all the disappointments, missteps, and just focus on day to day enjoyment of being a fan as that's really all there is. I know Treliving won't be the last GM of the Flames and I hold out hope the next GM will be able to do what he couldn't and that's build a Stanley Cup winning roster. All you can do as a fan is hope for better days ahead.

Again I hear you, but Calgary was one of the better teams in the NHL last year, so one might suggest the gamble was justified.

Owners are trying to put a product on the ice, and for them it's not just
a "Stanley Cup or bust" mentality.

Otherwise you'd be consistently churning players and rebuilding.

I expect the owners, while disappointed over the last series vs. Edmonton, felt it was a successful season.

[OptimalTates]

First, I wouldn't blame management for trying to ice the best team possible, that's always been the direction of the owners. I'll blame Treliving for lots, but not for keeping Gaudreau this season. This season was also the year to go for it with Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Lindholm making so little compared to what they should be on the "free market". Plus they probably hoped that Monahan's surgery got him back to healthy, they were obviously surprised to find out that Monahan was hiding another hip injury for most of the season.

Second, GM have short shelf lives when they go into a rebuild. It takes very strong commitment from owners, which he would never get, so even if it wasn't the direction of owner to try and win this year, it was still in his best interest. It's why we do see massive UFA contracts because GM's assume by the end of Lucic's 7 year contract that the GM isn't on the team anyways when it becomes an albatross (just with Lucic and Neal the reaching of the albatross level was almost instantly).

The bigger problem I have would be the removal of draft picks, like the 1st this year, if they didn't have a concrete plan with Gaudreau and Tkachuk. But the biggest would be if Gaudreau leaves and they still try to ice a competitive team. Just don't. Take your licks and move on, two or three years of clearing house and rebuilding through the draft before going after sought after UFAs would be far better in the long-term.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Take your licks and move on, two or three years of clearing house and rebuilding through the draft before going after sought after UFAs would be far better in the long-term.

I'm more of a chase the Cup kinda guy, so I don't mind the team rebuilding at the first sign of not being a cup contender.

But it's not "two or three years", it will take much longer if Calgary decides to clean house today.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I'm more of a chase the Cup kinda guy, so I don't mind the team rebuilding at the first sign of not being a cup contender.

But it's not "two or three years", it will take much longer if Calgary decides to clean house today.

Possibly. It all depends on how the 2023 draft goes. If you get the Oiler treatment and draft 1oa it's quicker as we already have 4 good/great prospects in the pipes. Adding Bedard makes it 3/4 years and your a playoff team.

[Vinny01]

I think Tkachuk would be very smart to try and secure a 6-8 year deal with the Flames or someone else this summer. He had an absolute beast of a year scoring 40+ and 100pts+. No guarantee he will hit those numbers again and going $9M QO and if he doesn’t get puckluck or gets hurt he could hurt his value. Cash in on the career year and if you don’t want to stay here he has the ability to force a deal.

If he has his heart set on one team it is tough but if he is open to several markets then I think the Flames can make it work. If he wants to stay here then the team should make it happen.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Ironically Tampa and Colorado just played for the Cup after signing Stamkos and Landeskog in the 12th hour.

While true, I don't see it as black and white as you do I guess.

Stamkos was quite verbal about cementing his legacy as part of the Lightning.
Landeskog's was all leverage, he was going to stay an AV and both sides knew that.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Possibly. It all depends on how the 2023 draft goes. If you get the Oiler treatment and draft 1oa it's quicker as we already have 4 good/great prospects in the pipes. Adding Bedard makes it 3/4 years and your a playoff team.

Chasing the 1st overall pick is a fool’s errand for this current team. Only 1 team wins the cup and only 1 team picks first. Yes if the Flames somehow won the Bedard lottery they would be poised for a very quick turnaround but unless there is a massive deconstruction of this team they won’t come close to sniffing at that pick. I would be shocked if they tore it down but here is what would need to happen to get a shot in my opinion.

1. Johnny walks
2. Sutter steps down
3. Tkachuk is traded
4. Markstrom is traded
5. Lindholm is traded
6. Hanifin is traded
7. Mangiapane is traded

Clear out the top 4 forwards, top goalie, top pair D, with only 2 years left and there is a good chance they get to the Seattle/Arizona level of sucking. They would also get a lot of solid futures for points 3-7

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Royle9

While true, I don't see it as black and white as you do I guess.

Stamkos was quite verbal about cementing his legacy as part of the Lightning.
Landeskog's was all leverage, he was going to stay an AV and both sides knew that.

Johnny has been quite vocal about his love for the city of Calgary and the organization. Many have stated legacy is important to him. He could definitely still sign

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Chasing the 1st overall pick is a fool’s errand for this current team. Only 1 team wins the cup and only 1 team picks first. Yes if the Flames somehow won the Bedard lottery they would be poised for a very quick turnaround but unless there is a massive deconstruction of this team they won’t come close to sniffing at that pick. I would be shocked if they tore it down but here is what would need to happen to get a shot in my opinion.

1. Johnny walks
2. Sutter steps down
3. Tkachuk is traded
4. Markstrom is traded
5. Lindholm is traded
6. Hanifin is traded
7. Mangiapane is traded

Clear out the top 4 forwards, top goalie, top pair D, with only 2 years left and there is a good chance they get to the Seattle/Arizona level of sucking. They would also get a lot of solid futures for points 3-7

That's true. On the other side the top 3 picks next year could yield franchise players apparently. Good year to tank if there ever was one.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Johnny has been quite vocal about his love for the city of Calgary and the organization. Many have stated legacy is important to him. He could definitely still sign

Let's hope so! Would be so awesome!!!I'd buy a jersey instantly

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Chasing the 1st overall pick is a fool’s errand for this current team. Only 1 team wins the cup and only 1 team picks first. Yes if the Flames somehow won the Bedard lottery they would be poised for a very quick turnaround but unless there is a massive deconstruction of this team they won’t come close to sniffing at that pick. I would be shocked if they tore it down but here is what would need to happen to get a shot in my opinion.

1. Johnny walks
2. Sutter steps down
3. Tkachuk is traded
4. Markstrom is traded
5. Lindholm is traded
6. Hanifin is traded
7. Mangiapane is traded

Clear out the top 4 forwards, top goalie, top pair D, with only 2 years left and there is a good chance they get to the Seattle/Arizona level of sucking. They would also get a lot of solid futures for points 3-7

I will say if Johnny walks, the Flames are unable to secure any top UFA's, and can't convince Tkachuk to sign an extension necessitating a trade for young assets, then this team could be bad enough next season to draft top 10 and if there's any organization that's due some lottery ball luck it's the Flames.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I will say if Johnny walks, the Flames are unable to secure any top UFA's, and can't convince Tkachuk to sign an extension necessitating a trade for young assets, then this team could be bad enough next season to draft top 10 and if there's any organization that's due some lottery ball luck it's the Flames.

I think we would go to the Brent Sutter era Flames where we would pick 10-15 but not be bad enough for a top pick. Even winning the lotto teams can only move up 5 spots now I believe (could be wrong there).

With Sutter, and Markstrom they would be really playing those 2-1, 3-2 games and likely right in the middle.

I also worry if Johnny walks and Chucky requests a trade they target more win now pieces in a Chucky deal than futures based.