Ongoing General Automotive Thread 2.0

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yeah, except four wheels is a different story.

If you have a one-off customer, wandering in with one wheel and one tire purchased somewhere else because he chased the best deal over supporting local, why would you give him an at-cost deal? He's going to want it right away, which means pulling somebody off a higher-margin job (nothing would be lower margin than a straight-up labour-only rush job) to get this guy in and out. You have to take better care of the customers that take better care of you. If he had come in in August when tire shops are way slower, then yeah, $40 or $50 would be perfectly reasonable.

When you come in smack dab in the height of tire-swap season and need to be bumped ahead of the people who purchased tires, wheels or both and labour to have them installed, it only makes sense that you're charged more (from a business perspective). The shop is trading a bit of a goodwill (there's a guy potentially sitting in your waiting room who just dropped $2k on wheels and tires and is waiting for his car that he booked in ahead of time who you just pissed off) and Joe Blow cheapskate who found a tire $15 cheaper somewhere else and now wants the cheap labour rate reserved for better customers and he needs it nOw.

IDK, if you want the cheapest price on something you can always find it. Sounds to me like he was charged the non-loyal customer rush price. Is it a fair price? Yeah, it totally is whether you guys think so or not. The business owner is sitting in a shop with all this equipment and overhead, let alone the staffing costs, and can charge what he wants. If it's too expensive you can definitely find it cheaper, but just because you can doesn't mean the more expensive price is a gouge. It could mean the cheaper price is artificially low.

This is getting comical, loose tires are free money in between regular jobs. I showed up out of the blue and dropped off a wheel and tire and said call me whenever there's no rush. There's no rush price or peak pricing, tires are fairly seasonal in general. The mentality of ripping off some rando off the street because you can, guarantees they'll never return.

Shops know they need to compete with the internet pricing now, gone are the days of 100% markup on tires. Buying tires from the shop or elsewhere matters less all the time.

[Nufy]

35 / tire when I had the winters mounted in October 2022.

GST extra. 147.00 total.

Will update with todays prices later.

Originally Posted by you&me

FWIW, I just checked the invoice from my wife's swap (hahaha) last week and it was $40 per tire for unmounting winters and remounting summers on the same rims and reinstalling the wheels on the vehicle.

I misread / misunderstood the OP that the shop was only mounting on the rim and not also removing & reinstalling the rim on the car (thereby taking up a lift in the shop)... That said, still not sure I blame the shop for the $$$, under the circumstances.

[nik-]

I just did a rubber swap for $100 for all four. $25 per seems like a pretty decent, yet standard, price.

[sa226]

The narrative on what happened that fateful day has really taken on a life of its own.

I didn't need it right away, I told them that it wasn't a rush at all.

Regarding the tire, I put a nail through one. So I needed the exact same tire. I called a couple of tire shops to see if they had it in stock. All of the shops said they had to order it in and the price was significantly more than ordering it online. So thats what I did.

I had a conversation with an owner of a shop about PMC tire and he mentioned how great it is that they have a "Ship to business" option so that customers can either commission the shop to order tires in for them to have them installed or order the tires themselves and have them shipped to the shop for installation.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

This is getting comical, loose tires are free money in between regular jobs. I showed up out of the blue and dropped off a wheel and tire and said call me whenever there's no rush. There's no rush price or peak pricing, tires are fairly seasonal in general. The mentality of ripping off some rando off the street because you can, guarantees they'll never return.

Shops know they need to compete with the internet pricing now, gone are the days of 100% markup on tires. Buying tires from the shop or elsewhere matters less all the time.

It's not free money at all. It's peanuts and a PITA. And of course the guy who buys some cheap tire somewhere else and then wants it installed at the place he didn't buy the tire from goes on the Internet to complain about the price. Clearly he was a walk-in (as in he didn't call before to check price or else he would have gone somewhere cheaper), so he wanted it now, didn't care that people were ahead of him, and had no interest in purchasing anything from the shop thus cutting them out of the opportunity for a fair mark-up on the tire, but wanted the cheapest price he could get. The business owner was like, 'sure, and our price is $75.' Did buddy walk? No, he paid it and then came to bitch about it on the Internet. I'd say the business owner had him pegged correctly and charged him appropriately. You can't win with some guys.

[Fuzz]

LOL, sorry Sliver, just take the L on this one. We used to do stuff like that all the time. It was no big deal at all. And we did not have different prices depending on how we felt about the work. That's how you know a business isn't worth re-visiting.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by nik-

I just did a rubber swap for $100 for all four. $25 per seems like a pretty decent, yet standard, price.

I'd argue it's not much more time to do four than one, honestly. Like, it makes sense to have a minimum charge and maybe - at this shop - $75 is it. The time is the same whether it's one tire or four in greeting the customer, writing the order, inputting it into the system, invoicing it in the accounting software, receiving payment, recording reception of payment back in the accounting software, calling the customer when complete, greeting him again when he comes back, retrieving the tires. You guys are absolutely out of your minds if you think you can do all that - plus the actual job - for $25 and make a cent. VISA is going to take a couple bucks of that already, plus you have the balancing weights, plus wear and tear on your equipment, etc. All that time and costs and charging only $25 would mean you're paying this rando for the privilege of swapping his tire (purchased elsewhere, no less).

Will some shops do this for $25? Yeah, I agree some will. It could be a loss leader to hopefully entice them back, but when you have a guy already hunting for the cheapest price on the Internet for his tire you're never going to sell him a set of four down the road. I'd say it's an outdated practice that only old, out-of-touch boomer business owners would still do. A minimum charge for a walk-in customer - whether you guys like it or not - is not a gouge. It could very well be $75 is the correct price and the incorrect price is $25.

Would I rather pay $25 than $75? Yep. But if I'm already at the shop and the charge is $75 I'd either pay it or leave. Either way, I at least recognize it's not an unreasonable price.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

LOL, sorry Sliver, just take the L on this one. We used to do stuff like that all the time. It was no big deal at all. And we did not have different prices depending on how we felt about the work. That's how you know a business isn't worth re-visiting.

Take the L? That'd be insane. I'm right.

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

LOL, sorry Sliver, just take the L on this one. We used to do stuff like that all the time. It was no big deal at all. And we did not have different prices depending on how we felt about the work. That's how you know a business isn't worth re-visiting.

As a parts manager at a very busy dealership I can promise you that many people have little understanding of what goes on behind the scenes at a dealership and to a large extent, any automotive shop.


Full stop, Sliver is right on this one.


It cost time and money for a shop to write a work order and have anyone perform any work on a vehicle (or a loose, off rim tire swap in this case). "Any minimum wage oil change kid will do it" is never going to happen at this time of the year. Do you know who the busiest people in the dealership are during tire changeover months? The oil change / tire change kids. Very likely it is a licensed tech being assigned this job as the regular tire swaps are lined up outside of the minimum wage kids bay(s).

• The service advisor that had to spend 5 minutes writing your workorder?
• The technician or apprentice that had to spend 10-20 minutes dismounting your tire, being very careful not to break the TPMS sensor, cleaning the lip of the rim to ensure a good seal, cleaning the old stick on wheel weights off so the tire can be properly balanced.
• the service advisor again for closing the work order and printing your receipt.
• The cash person or receptionist for taking payment.

I can promise, a lot more goes on behind the scene than you think. That "10 minute tire swap" if done to a proper standard, is more like a half an hour or more of various peoples time.

With all of that said, many shops have a "minimum charge" for misc work which could be half an hour which would be well within the $75 range.

While $75 might be a tad high, outrageous is laughable and I can promise you most shops will be in the $45-$75 range for a single customer supplied tire.

[Fuzz]

Well, if a stealership guy says $75 is a tad high...


I know what's involved, I've changed thousands of tires. We used to take jobs like this all the time, and not charge 2x what the time is worth, and this was in ripoff meca of Banff. 10 minutes is plenty of time, and I used to write my own invoices and handle payment as well.



If your service advisor takes 5 minutes to write "M&B 1 tire - $75" then you should probably fire them, or add them to the staff that change tires.

[PepsiFree]

You get what you pay for. I’ve had tires balanced where it definitely felt like I got a deal.

I see no issue in setting a minimum charge for a service. The market will tell you if it’s fair or not. Whenever I freelance I charge a minimum of one hour of work regardless if it took me five minutes or fifty five minutes. I know some people who will do a five minute job for free. I know others who have a start-up fee just to take on the work. End of the day, if you can prove you’re worth your bill or it helps you avoid getting flooded with nickle and dime work, then I don’t see an issue.

I could do thousands of five minute jobs for free. I could also do one and make actual money. Latter seems better.

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Well, if a stealership guy says $75 is a tad high...


I know what's involved, I've changed thousands of tires. We used to take jobs like this all the time, and not charge 2x what the time is worth, and this was in ripoff meca of Banff. 10 minutes is plenty of time, and I used to write my own invoices and handle payment as well.



If your service advisor takes 5 minutes to write "M&B 1 tire - $75" then you should probably fire them, or add them to the staff that change tires.

Ya, nevermind a discussion I guess. You've already made your mind up.

[Fuzz]

Lets not pretend it isn't widely known that dealerships tend to have some of the highest shop rates around.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Lets not pretend it isn't widely known that dealerships tend to have some of the highest shop rates around.

Let’s not pretend that everyone isn’t out there trying to get compensated for their time. Dealerships have more overhead.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Lets not pretend it isn't widely known that dealerships tend to have some of the highest shop rates around.

I was pleasantly surprised when I bought my new car in November. I had planned to buy some winter tires at Costco and get them put on the car immediately after possession, but I asked the dealership to quote on 4 winter tires installed (Michelin X-Ice) and they actually beat Costco's price. Was way more convenient driving off the lot already on winters too

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Lets not pretend it isn't widely known that dealerships tend to have some of the highest shop rates around.

As others have said, you would be surprised at how out of date that stereotype is.


My dealerships shop rate was just raised for the first time in 3 years and the second time in 8 years to $159.95. We are lower than the nearby Kal Tire, Fountain Tire and within $5 of the "ma and pa" non chain shops.


Anyways the original point I was making was that $75 while perhaps a tad on the higher end of average, was still well within the average range given the circumstances.


Everyone wants something for free these days and fair compensation seems to only be fair if it benefits whoever is viewing the service.

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

I was pleasantly surprised when I bought my new car in November. I had planned to buy some winter tires at Costco and get them put on the car immediately after possession, but I asked the dealership to quote on 4 winter tires installed (Michelin X-Ice) and they actually beat Costco's price. Was way more convenient driving off the lot already on winters too

This is a pretty common thing these days. Especially with tires, profit margin on tires are razor thin so most shops / parts departments prefer to make little to no profit on a set of tires with the hope that the customer will continue to return for other services.


Crazy statistic is that 93% of people complete all their vehicle services at the place they purchased their last set of tires.


It's also why it is generally better to use tire storage services at a dealership than an "aftermarket" shop. Dealerships want you to return (even for warranty work) so they will often sell storage at cost or close to it. IE our tire storage is $59.95 per season while Kal Tire across the road is $124.95 per season. But hey, stealerships I guess

[PepsiFree]

I think we can all agree that Kal Tire, Canadian Tire, and almost anywhere with "Tire" or "Lube" or the name of a part in their name... sucks.

I like dealerships for the same reason I like specialty shops. They know the vehicle better than almost anyone, and that's worth paying for sometimes IMO.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I think we can all agree that Kal Tire, Canadian Tire, and almost anywhere with "Tire" or "Lube" or the name of a part in their name... sucks.

I like dealerships for the same reason I like specialty shops. They know the vehicle better than almost anyone, and that's worth paying for sometimes IMO.

I've used Kaltire for winters & seasonal storage for years now... I'm sure others offer it, but their tire warranty program has saved me well (well) over $1000 over the years, so (unknowingly) paying a little more for seasonal storage and change over doesn't bother me.

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by you&me

I've used Kaltire for winters & seasonal storage for years now... I'm sure others offer it, but their tire warranty program has saved me well (well) over $1000 over the years, so (unknowingly) paying a little more for seasonal storage and change over doesn't bother me.

And nothing at all wrong with any of this. Loyalty goes a long way and good businesses recognize this. I suspect they take good care of you knowing how hard it is to attract new customers, far less effort, time and money required to keep current customers happy and coming back