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Old 11-10-2018, 12:48 PM   #4641
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Meanwhile back at the ranch...

CGY trades Jankowski, a third and Gillies for Bob, then extends him for 5 years at 7 per
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:54 PM   #4642
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Meanwhile back at the ranch...

CGY trades Jankowski, a third and Gillies for Bob, then extends him for 5 years at 7 per
He passes on free agency for a $500k a year paycut?

He makes $7.5M right now
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:58 PM   #4643
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He passes on free agency for a $500k a year paycut?

He makes $7.5M right now
I didn’t put a lot of thought into it to be honest, was trying to change the channel...
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:58 PM   #4644
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He passes on free agency for a $500k a year paycut?

He makes $7.5M right now
Ya, Bob is nor signing for anything that starts below an 8
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Old 11-10-2018, 01:02 PM   #4645
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Ya, Bob is nor signing for anything that starts below an 8
Ok,

CGY trades Jankowski, Stone, Gillies and a 3rd to CBJ for Bobrovsky and Scott Harrington.

CGY then trades Smith to the Kings for a 5th rd pick
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Old 11-10-2018, 01:03 PM   #4646
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Bobrovsky is very much a careful what you wish for scenario for the Flames. Its going to cost a lot to get him and then cost a lot to keep him. Both in cash and assets.
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Old 11-10-2018, 01:08 PM   #4647
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Bobrovsky is very much a careful what you wish for scenario for the Flames. Its going to cost a lot to get him and then cost a lot to keep him. Both in cash and assets.
True, but he seems like the most legit option to give us a few years of being a true contender.
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Old 11-10-2018, 01:09 PM   #4648
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Bobrovsky is very much a careful what you wish for scenario for the Flames. Its going to cost a lot to get him and then cost a lot to keep him. Both in cash and assets.


The goalie position is worth investing in and “getting right”. Otherwise you see an organization wander aimlessly in the desert bleeding assets year after year as they take half-measures.

I’d be happy to see it solved for the next half decade. Bobrovsky would do that, and yes it would cost.
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Old 11-10-2018, 01:11 PM   #4649
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I'm on team Varlamov for a free agent pursuit. Cost less to acquire and retain and will give the team exactly what they need. Problem being they will still likely have to give him 7 years and he's already 30 with some injury history.
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Old 11-10-2018, 02:16 PM   #4650
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I'm on team Varlamov for a free agent pursuit. Cost less to acquire and retain and will give the team exactly what they need. Problem being they will still likely have to give him 7 years and he's already 30 with some injury history.
He looked unreal last night. Colorado should have lost by a ton more.
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Old 11-10-2018, 02:30 PM   #4651
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What happened to this thread?
Looks like we have some internet tough guys.

In the end....no one can dispute that our goalies have underperformed for a long period of time. Sigalet has presided over the coaching during that time. Tough to say he is the cause, but it's right to say that he is not enough of a solution and It's not working, so it's worth taking a look at someone different to see if that helps. Change one variable at a time until they figure this out.
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Old 11-10-2018, 03:00 PM   #4652
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On Bobrovsky

I don’t get the trades with Jankowski etc.

Columbus needs goaltending, because Korpisalo is a major step down and question, and Berube isn’t looking that promising. Elvis Merzlikins in Lugano in Switzerland is looking like their best prospect right now

If one thinks Gillies or Parsons are close to ready, and expendable, and Columbus may have interest, maybe Flames could bundle one of them with Smith. CBJ gets worse now, and would have to retain some salary though.

Not sure how to balance out the risk of losing an asset though, if Bobrovsky wouldn’t want to extend.
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Old 11-10-2018, 03:06 PM   #4653
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I still believe Varlamov to be the more secure choice. He’s been great on a pretty bad Avs team since he got there.

But at this point, get whoever you can get
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Old 11-10-2018, 03:09 PM   #4654
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I still believe Varlamov to be the more secure choice. He’s been great on a pretty bad Avs team since he got there.

But at this point, get whoever you can get
Varlomov would be nice.

Probability of an in division trade is low in my opinion. It would likely have to involve extraordinary circumstances, like when Jones went to Boston then got flipped to SJ.

So it is just a lot more complicated.
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Old 11-10-2018, 03:15 PM   #4655
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Varlamov isn't in our division though. The Avs are in the Central.
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Old 11-10-2018, 03:18 PM   #4656
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Varlamov isn't in our division though. The Avs are in the Central.
Written mistake, in conference. Thanks.
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Old 11-10-2018, 03:27 PM   #4657
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Either way, agreed that trading with the Avs probably wouldn't be that easy right now.
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Old 11-10-2018, 03:52 PM   #4658
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What happened to this thread?
Sigalet is the new Bennett.
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Old 11-10-2018, 04:12 PM   #4659
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This is the only tangible evidence that I have ever run across anywhere with regards to Sigalet and his tenure with the Flames:



http://www.flamesfrom80feet.ca/2016/...stment-to.html


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"It's something we collaborated on when things weren't going well at the start of the year," said Flames goaltending coach Jordan Sigalet when I spoke with him on the weekend. "You look at his game and you see where he's getting beat and a lot of times, it was on odd-man rushes where he was having a tough time getting across his crease.

"We started focusing on his on-ice awareness and when to be aggressive, when to be less aggressive and just trusting his size and athleticism."

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The recommendation was for Ramo to stay further back in his net. While he was reluctant to describe it as a "change" to his playing style, he acknowledges he has made an adjustment.

"It's a different way to approach rushes and plays into the zone," he explained. "I'm a little bit deeper now than I was, allowing myself to move more easily across the crease and give myself a better chance in those situations."

Quote:
Ramo says all that practice time and working on the changes over and over is required to get him to the point where he feels good about them because come game time, you're only going to play how you're most comfortable.

"The main thing is to feel good in the net because in a game, you can't do too much thinking, you have to do what feels the best," said Ramo. "It's always when we practice that we work on any changes and try to get them to feel good because you won't do it in a game if it doesn't."

Quote:
Proof that the adjustment has worked can be found in the numbers. At the end of November, Ramo's save percentage was .899 and six times he had surrendered at least four goals. Since the start of December, he's posted a .930 save percentage and given up four goals in a game only once.

"By being a little deeper in his net now, it allows him to come across his net more controlled, more calm and compact and it's made a big difference in his game, especially in his rebound recovery," said Sigalet. "Even last game, the rebound when Max Domi had that great chance. Because he was a little bit deeper on the original shot, it was a lot easier for him to get across and make that second save."

When I look at the goalie merry-go-round over the last years since Kipper's retirement, a few things stick out to me:


1) Calgary has never obtained a goalie in his prime that was a de facto starter.
2) Calgary has brought in de facto starters in the twilight of their careers.


Can a goalie coach ensure that an ageing goalie can beat father time and maintain a certain level of success in the twilight of their careers? Probably not.


Can a goalie coach guarantee that above average prospects continue their development and hit their ceilings? Probably not.


To compound this issue, there is a lot of movement on the defence pairings, and how the team plays 'team defence'. I haven't seen a strong defensive team here in Calgary at any point for years and years now.


I remember the Dubynk story from years ago. I always thought that Dubynk was actually a very promising goalie for Edmonton, and then he mysteriously got... awful. Why? I am too lazy to dig up those stories, but a huge reason for Dubynk to start from a very promising point in his early years, to incredibly awful, to slowly regain his form and become a somewhat 'elite' goaltender was simply getting out of Edmonton. Edmonton played defence HORRIBLY for years. Over those years, Dubynk subconsciously had to over-adjust to defensive miscues - being over aggressive on shots and getting out of position when he started anticipating another defensive break-down. When he got out of Edmonton, he slowly stopped being 'shell-shocked' and became a rather consistently good goalie.


I am not claiming that Sigalet is some goalie whisperer, nor do I claim that the Flames should make a change and fire him. I just don't see much evidence pointing to a certain direction either way, except for the article I posted.


I am not in the camp that a change for the sake of a change has to happen. Ramo took a bit of time adjusting to the changes that Sigalet advised, but once he did, boy did it pay off. Flames might have made the playoffs that year again if it wasn't for the Ramo injury. In my opinion, Sigalet didn't have much else to work with in Ortio (young and unproven), Hiller (terrible, and at best a mediocre starter in his prime) and Backstrom (who sat out the entire year and was only promised 4 starts at the trade deadline simply to allow the Flames to make a trade picking up a draft pick).


Elliott - never a legitimate starter and has throughout his entire career shown only spurts of above average play, with long interludes of terribleness.



Johnson - never a starter, and has always shown large swings in his play, which is why he has never been considered a starter.


Gillies - young and raw still.


Smith - twilight of his career (and honestly, he looks 'shell-shocked' to me kind of like Dubynk did).


Rittich - hasn't been consistent enough, especially when given the reigns.


Rittich and Gillies (and Parsons, of course) have never been starters. We don't know if they were ever 'starter material'. I never saw Gillies as an elite-level goaltending prospect like many others (including Weisbrod at the time). I saw a decent goalie prospect with a lot of development ahead of him before he can be an NHL-level backup. Maybe can turn into a starter, but I think Rittich is ahead of him by a mile right now.


There is so much to a goalie. So much pressure at that position. Some guys have it, other simply never do. I would never think that Elliott would be a legitimate, dependable starter in this league, regardless of how good a goalie coach is. I think Smith is declining, and the whole idea was to have him serve as a stop-gap until (hopefully) a younger goalie in the system was ready. We are seeing why he is a stop-gap with his age. Sigalet can't really fix that.


Another thing that can't be understated is the equipment change this season. Goals are up this year. There are many more 'squeakers' going through goalies that they otherwise should be stopping. I always liked goalies that would catch rather than goalies that blocked, and I think that 'blocking goalies' are having more trouble this year than 'catching goalies'. Smith is more of a blocker, IMO. Sigalet should be helping him in that area, and we will have to see if he does indeed help Smith or not. Ramo took some time, but he eventually took Sigalet's advice and it paid off well. Will Smith do likewise? Is that advice that Sigalet is providing sound advice? Will Smith adopt that advice to the point that it becomes 'comfortable' like Ramo mentioned in the above article, and that it starts to transfer nicely to actual games?


Jury is out.


I just think that we as fans are perhaps getting out pitchforks since we aren't a team that is blessed with a reliable starter since Kipper retired, and are getting tired of it. A goalie coach isn't going to give us a Kipper. Only a Kipper can be a Kipper, if that makes sense. Because he has survived over a few regime changes here in Calgary, and with the above article in helping Ramo, I probably lean on the side of any Sigalet argument as 'much ado about nothing'.



To me, the crux of the argument is the fact that Calgary hasn't obtained a proven, reliable starter since Kiprusoff. I haven't seen a goalie become 'wrecked' in Calgary who was once really good elsewhere, or who since has become great elsewhere. Look at the goalie graveyard BEFORE Kiprusoff. Glenn Hall never made any mediocre, inconsistent goaltender great during his time (not that I recall) way back in the day.


It is literally pages and pages of arguing about Sigalet. Might as well argue about the existence of God. There is little empirical evidence to suggest we know anything about his effectiveness on the job. For all we know, he hates the Flames and is sabotaging goaltending from the inside. Or maybe he has been incredibly effective at plugging holes in a rotten ship and preventing the team from drowning.


If anyone else has tangible evidence either way - say from a former goalie who has gone on to criticize the stuff that Sigalet has had him do, or former goalies that praised what Sigalet has helped them with, please do so.


Digging up facts about Elliott, Johnson, Ortio, Hiller, Smith, Rittich, Gillies, Backstrom, etc., etc., isn't getting the job accomplished much as I don't see goalies who have been better elsewhere before or after their tenure in Calgary.
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Old 11-10-2018, 04:18 PM   #4660
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Stop. This thread isn't about goalies. Stop. There are other goalie threads the conversation can be had in. Stop. Let's get back to actual Trade Speculation Rumors.
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