2011 Canadian Election Thread

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by yads

Only assuming most of these young voters don't change their views when they get older which is a very big if.

I've voted Green twice in the last three elections. The first time I did it was because I liked the idea of an alternative party and I was open to some of their ideas. This time it was a full-fledged protest vote.

[Starfishy]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Hypothetical =/= invalid. Hypothetical situations are indeed very valid in debating.

Do you think that someone like her would still win a riding in Alberta despite her background? Would it have been an issue? I think you're kidding yourself if you think the Conservatives don't keep few oafs in strongholds where they know nothing is going to stop people from voting for them.

I just can't seem to find any candidates that look as obviously out of place in the Liberal or Conservative ridings. I think the NDP did a very bad job of seeking out "placekeeper" candidates. If you know they aren't going to make it, at least pick someone that looks like they might have a clue about what is going on. At least pick someone that speaks the right language.

Jack spent a ton of time in Quebec trying to get that vote. If they didn't think they were going to get any of these seats why did they dedicate the resources? Even more odd, is why they dedicated resources to ridings in which they had totally unqualified people as candidates?

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by troutman

Not yet. Give it 20 years.

http://greencanada.wordpress.com/200...he-youth-vote/

http://www.ekospolitics.com/wp-conte...-_july-23_.pdf

I'll give them another 20 years... but they've already had what, almost 30 years? And they just now elected their very first MP, and only accomplished that by completely giving up on the other 307 ridings to throw everything they had at that one, single riding. In so doing, they actually reduced the number of people that actually voted for them nationally by a significant margin. I think I read somewhere that they will only get their deposit back in 8 ridings out of 308- what do you need to get the deposit back, 1000 votes or something?

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how long it took for, say, the NDP, Reform or BQ party to elect their first MP?

A lot is riding on how Crazy Liz does over the next 4 years. If she does nothing but be a shrill voice in the background screaming, expect them to do even worse 4 years hence. If she can somehow demonstrate an alternative voice that is not only a 1 issue party - something she has been unable to do so far - they might be able to finally start growing their base.

Based on this conversation including Crazy Liz, I'd bet on the former.

edit: responded initially before reading your links. Interestingly, the document you link indicates the Green's polling somewhere north of 11% nationally. However, when it comes to marking their ballots, their actual support is far, far less - something like less than 4%. This could imply a couple of things -
1) it is easy to respond to a pollster saying "sure, I'll vote Green" but when it comes down to actually counting your vote, those folks are much less likely to throw their vote that direction
2) people who would vote Green are too lazy or disinterested to actually get to the polling station
3) when an election campaign actually gets going and people take a hard look at policies, the Greenies lose out on sober second reflection

It is likely a bit of all 3, but none bode particularly well going forward for the Greens.

[troutman]

^^^^

I think the link mentions that although Green is the most popular party for voters under 25, that group also has the lowest voter turn-out.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I'm not really sure it would help that much. Parties would still try to field a full line up of candidates just in case people are voting for the party rather than the person. If the NDP hadn't have put this woman in that riding, they would have lost a seat as a result. You might as well still try to field a full line up and hope for the best. I don't imagine the extra cost would outweigh the potential benefits.

This is partially why I'm not getting bothered with the NDP's actions; it's a lose-lose situation. If they can't find decent candidates and don't use poor fillers, they are not a national party and shouldn't be taken seriously. On the other hand, if they do use poor fillers they are not a serious party.

Originally Posted by yads

Only assuming most of these young voters don't change their views when they get older which is a very big if.

Unless the Green Party matures at the same pace as these current young voters, which is essential to their success as multi-issue party with a green focus.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by troutman

Not yet. Give it 20 years.

http://greencanada.wordpress.com/200...he-youth-vote/

http://www.ekospolitics.com/wp-conte...-_july-23_.pdf

Lets be honest, Liz ran in this campaign as an independent, she put all her parties resources into one riding, hers. The Greens didn't build anything here, they lost ground in terms of vote count.

Anyone who's potentially a candidate in the next election has to look at how this campaign was run to the glory of Liz May and say I would be better off served as an Independent.

for all of her harping yesterday that she should get extra funding and extra question period time because she's a woman, a "party Leader" and the first green to gain a seat. She should get the same benefits as any other independent.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by old-fart

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how long it took for, say, the NDP, Reform or BQ party to elect their first MP?

The Bloc and Reform both elected candidates in their first general elections (1993). Both also elected candidates in by-elections prior to that general election. The CCF/NDP elected seven MPs in their first election of 1935.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Lets be honest, Liz ran in this campaign as an independent, she put all her parties resources into one riding, hers. The Greens didn't build anything here, they lost ground in terms of vote count.

Anyone who's potentially a candidate in the next election has to look at how this campaign was run to the glory of Liz May and say I would be better off served as an Independent.

for all of her harping yesterday that she should get extra funding and extra question period time because she's a woman, a "party Leader" and the first green to gain a seat. She should get the same benefits as any other independent.

Liz said Monday night that there is mandatory leadership review upcoming, and I got the impression she has no illusions about her future.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by troutman

^^^^

I think the link mentions that although Green is the most popular party for voters under 25, that group also has the lowest voter turn-out.

Too bad for the Greens that eventually the "under 25" group ends up being the "25-34" group that have real jobs...or want real jobs...and turn out to vote. They don't take their voting preference with them into adulthood; adulthood injects a certain amount of logic, reason and self-preservation into them. When later or much, much later you end up with personal financial security, you can commence dreaming the Green dream again. (You just end up hanging with a much smaller crowd.)

[mykalberta]

So is it true that May will now be in the "Leaders" debate next go around?

Someone should run as an independent and leader of their own party just to get into the debates

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by troutman

Liz said Monday night that there is mandatory leadership review upcoming, and I got the impression she has no illusions about her future.

She pretty much strong armed the last review which was basically a foppy hat tea and crumpets party in her back yard. This will be no difference.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

So is it true that May will now be in the "Leaders" debate next go around?

Someone should run as an independent and leader of their own party just to get into the debates

Makes you almost want to push for the Western Bloc party to win a seat to Doug Christie can join the leaders debate and talk about the need for a master race.

What would a leaders debate be without Nazi representation.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Makes you almost want to push for the Western Bloc party to win a seat to Doug Christie can join the leaders debate and talk about the need for a master race.

What would a leaders debate be without Nazi representation.

That would be amusing/entertaining, but I think that the caveat is that you have to win a seat now?

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by old-fart

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how long it took for, say, the NDP, Reform or BQ party to elect their first MP?

Reform was founded in 1987, first ran in 1988, and first elected an MP in a 1989 by-election (and 52 MPs in the next election). The NDP actually had an MP elected as a "New Party" candidate the year before the party was official. The Bloc won 54 seats in their first election.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

She pretty much strong armed the last review which was basically a foppy hat tea and crumpets party in her back yard. This will be no difference.

Actually, wasn't there a hub-bub about her skirting it altogether after the last election?

I would be stunned... stunned!.. if Crazy Liz doesn't retain leadership of the Greenies after the Leadership review. If she had lost, yes I think she would have been on the way out. But she won - the first Greenie ever elected to the house.

She's here for at least another 4 years.

As The Captain points out, she'll be a back bench MP with ZERO question period time unless she can convince either the Libs or the NDPs to give her some of their time. Same as the BQ actually, and you can bet the NDP will be hard pressed to not allow at least some of their time to go the BQ. Again, if she can be a moderate voice on all issues, she might get some airtime from the media. If she is just Crazy Liz she'll likely not be asked for an opinion on anything other than environmental issues, much like she was when she wasn't an MP.

[crazy_eoj]

Does this make anyone else sick to their stomach?

MPs Cash in on $116 million in Pension & Severance Bonanza

OTTAWA, ON: The Canadian Taxpayers Federation (CTF) today released its calculations of estimated pension and severance payments paid to the 113 MPs who were either defeated or did not seek re-election in the May 2, 2011 general election. Defeated and retiring MPs will collect $4.9 million in pension payments in their first year, reaching a cumulative total of $111.5 million by age 80. In addition, another $4.3 million in severance cheques will be issued to former MPs. The pension and severance calculations for individual MPs are available HERE.

[Tinordi]

There have to be some incentives to serve in public office otherwise no one would do it.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Does this make anyone else sick to their stomach?

MPs Cash in on $116 million in Pension & Severance Bonanza

OTTAWA, ON: The Canadian Taxpayers Federation (CTF) today released its calculations of estimated pension and severance payments paid to the 113 MPs who were either defeated or did not seek re-election in the May 2, 2011 general election. Defeated and retiring MPs will collect $4.9 million in pension payments in their first year, reaching a cumulative total of $111.5 million by age 80. In addition, another $4.3 million in severance cheques will be issued to former MPs. The pension and severance calculations for individual MPs are available HERE.

If you want valuable people to pursue careers in politics, you have to make it valuable for them to do so.

Not sure why you find this sickening.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by evman150

If you want valuable people to pursue careers in politics, you have to make it valuable for them to do so.

Not sure why you find this sickening.

Well a $150,000 salary (more than double the average Canadian) plus a pension worth about quadruple of what anyone in the private sector makes is really quite ridiculous. Not to mention the huge expense accounts they rack up every year (wasn't Layton over $100,000 last year?).

Public sector employees in general are overpaid for their work compared to the private sector, and it's clear to see this extends to those at the very top too.

Those university students in Quebec walking out of school into this pay scale is amazing. Great gig, if you can get it.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Well a $150,000 salary (more than double the average Canadian) plus a pension worth about quadruple of what anyone in the private sector makes is really quite ridiculous. Not to mention the huge expense accounts they rack up every year (wasn't Layton over $100,000 last year?).

Public sector employees in general are overpaid for their work compared to the private sector, and it's clear to see this extends to those at the very top too.

Those university students in Quebec walking out of school into this pay scale is amazing. Great gig, if you can get it.

Layton was over $500,000 last year.