Official WWE/ECW/WCW/TNA talk, or whatever v2

[CaptainCrunch]

They really need to cut the roster down to a manageable size.

Find a separate TV deal for ROH, and not have guys fighting there in WWE or AEW style matches, ROH was unique, I think giving Jericho the title was silly, he doesn't need the title, he's not really a wrestler but a performer. Make ROH a seperate "wrestling company".

The booking and story lines aren't good, they have some good story, but for the most part its very WCW Vince Russo feeling that they're writing stories for smart fans.

Stop with all of the dangerous high BS spots on weekly shows, they become meaningless. And you just end up injuring your workers badly, because a lot of these people aren't safe anyways. If you have a proper producer that knows how to ask why.

"I want to do a triple flip onto the other guy through a flaming barb wire table tonight"

"Why"

"Because it will look cool and get me over"

"No it won't and likely you'll botch it and kill the other guy, denied, come up with a logical match".

I'm serious when I say that they need a experienced talent relations guy that's not a boy or girl in the back. Seriously, Do you think if a guy like JR was in charge of talent relations would have let the Page and Punk thing get to the point it did. Not at all.

The whole experiment of letting wrestlers ad live their promo's and put some structure to the workers. Not everyone is a Steve Austin or to an extent Moxley who can actually ad live a coherent promo. "You know ME . . . . You don't know me".

Tony has to really stop booking, he just does. For the most part, its ok to bring in a booker and a writer, and then Tony can just approve or not approve.

If AEW wants to grow, it wants to get by the whole we're going to cater to one small segment of the overall fan base. Their numbers are pretty stagnant because the show doesn't appeal, and AEW has never defined what kind of wrestling company it is.

Even at its wooliest ECW days, Heyman did realize that hardcore would only take him so far, and he bought in actual good workers to appeal to traditional wrestling fans.

[Ozy_Flame]

It's definitely going through growing pains. The good news is that it is a hit TV show, TBS loves them, and they have a good following. I think some industry vets in new positions, rotation and delegation of duties, and a plan for brand scaling is their next move. And if Tony wants to simply be involved in storylines, he should delegate CEO duties to someone else and implement a team of writers to come up with ideas that Khan can review and tweak as necessary.

I still think they're a great company and have a great product, will hope for a maturation over the next 18 months.

[Blaster86]

It's hard to describe where AEW is right now. What I feel like it is, is a program that is appealing to the people who already like it but doing nothing to get people who don't already watch it to get into it.

They've moved away from that hard hitting, treat it like a real sport style to a more cartoonish program all the while keeping the same hints of 2000 WCW booking that put me off in the first place. Hardcore AEW fans are still fans and really into it but I feel like they're not doing much to retain or gain people who don't fall into that category? Khan needs to find a filter. Get people to help him book. Don't try and do it all himself, because it isn't working anymore (if you ever thought it did). He needs to stop worrying about social media and get back to what got them over when they first started up. Less BTE style tripe and more Old NWA style. Oh, and for ####'s sake stop blading.

Yeah, and a roster purge is where you start on fixing the booking. Get rid of the cancers that are people who don't want to be there and the people who are just head cases in the back. Andrade, Miro, Black and Murphy want out? Let them go. Don't do the WWE thing where you just hold miserable guys because you don't want the other organisation to have them. Sammy, the Bucks, Punk, Page and Omega keep causing issues in the back? Let them go. No one wants to deal with that sort of #### at work.

[Muta]

Related question for this AEW discussion: which wrestler / tag team in AEW do you think is the:

Best overall wrestler:
Best overall tag-team:
Best overall draw:
Best up-and-comer:
Most overrated:
Most overused:
Most underrated:
Most underused:

I'll go....

Best overall wrestler: Kenny Omega
Best overall tag-team: FTR
Best overall draw: Kenny Omega
Best up-and-comer: Daniel Garcia
Most overrated: Jon Moxley
Most overused: Sammy Guevara
Most underrated: Rey Fenix
Most underused: Buddy Matthews

[CaptainCrunch]

Best overall wrestler: Kenny Omega (I'm not really into his style but right now he is the top dog)
Best overall tag-team: FTR and its not close
Best overall draw: CM Punk until they release him.
Best up-and-comeraniel Garcia
Most overrated: Moxley
Most overused: Sammy Guevara and Tay Conti (And that hurts because I was big proponent of Tay in NXT and early AEW.
Most underrated: Rey Fenix
Most underused: Jay Lethal

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

It's hard to describe where AEW is right now. What I feel like it is, is a program that is appealing to the people who already like it but doing nothing to get people who don't already watch it to get into it.

Great description of it and a reason why they're not really moving new numbers, there's also the issue with major live events where they're not selling tickets like they did before.

Originally Posted by Blaster86

They've moved away from that hard hitting, treat it like a real sport style to a more cartoonish program all the while keeping the same hints of 2000 WCW booking that put me off in the first place. Hardcore AEW fans are still fans and really into it but I feel like they're not doing much to retain or gain people who don't fall into that category? Khan needs to find a filter. Get people to help him book. Don't try and do it all himself, because it isn't working anymore (if you ever thought it did). He needs to stop worrying about social media and get back to what got them over when they first started up. Less BTE style tripe and more Old NWA style. Oh, and for ####'s sake stop blading.

This is a direct problem of people like Omega and the Bucks as EVP's and Tony. AEW doesn't have an identity. Omega in one of his promo's talks about having all these wrestlers with different styles, and it leads to a lot of lack of chemistry issues and even injuries. WWE and AEW have done a lousy job in the last few years of identifying what they are.

ROH was probably the best at it.

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Yeah, and a roster purge is where you start on fixing the booking. Get rid of the cancers that are people who don't want to be there and the people who are just head cases in the back. Andrade, Miro, Black and Murphy want out? Let them go. Don't do the WWE thing where you just hold miserable guys because you don't want the other organisation to have them. Sammy, the Bucks, Punk, Page and Omega keep causing issues in the back? Let them go. No one wants to deal with that sort of #### at work.

Miro always complained in WWE that they were telling him what to do and filtering him. And when the Filter came off he made bizarre choices and weird promo's and got over like a wet fart. Andrade has been really underused, but at the same time, he's nothing more then what he was in WWE a decent midcarder. Murphy btw is a fantastic worker, unbelievably good in the ring when you let him go, he's just never had the charisma to sell his gimmck.

I go back to the simplest rule that wrestling companies ignore. If you wrestle you can't be a booker or an executive. Its he Ole Anderson/Dusty Rhodes rule. PAge started this whole thing, Punk threw gas on it, The Bucks acted like idiots and threw more gas on it.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Best overall wrestler: Kenny Omega (I'm not really into his style but right now he is the top dog)
Best overall tag-team: FTR and its not close
Best overall draw: CM Punk until they release him.
Best up-and-comeraniel Garcia
Most overrated: Moxley
Most overused: Sammy Guevara and Tay Conti (And that hurts because I was big proponent of Tay in NXT and early AEW.
Most underrated: Rey Fenix
Most underused: Jay Lethal

Not sure I agree about CM Punk being the top draw.

Did they really draw any better than they had prior? From a PPV buy perspective not really.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

This is a direct problem of people like Omega and the Bucks as EVP's and Tony. AEW doesn't have an identity. Omega in one of his promo's talks about having all these wrestlers with different styles, and it leads to a lot of lack of chemistry issues and even injuries. WWE and AEW have done a lousy job in the last few years of identifying what they are.

I'm not sure the lack of identity is because of that - early days AEW had an identity with those three at the top.

AEW lost its identity by bringing in too many WWE retreads and by bringing in too many titles and almost doing too much overlap with NJPW and Impact.

Interestingly I think TNA had similar issues but never really reached the heights AEW did prior to bringing into much ex WCW/WWE talent.

In terms of guys who weren't AEW originals (Mox, Pac, etc) I might look at keeping Bryan, Cesaro, Andrade and Cole as ex WWE talent because they fit the bill of what AEW wanted to be initially long term but Miro, Keith Lee (impressive but not sure I like him in AEW), CM Punk (poison), Matt Hardy, Malakai Black (great but doesn't fit AEW style IMO).

To me AEW needs to focus on the quality of the wrestling - that is when they are at their best.

[Inferno]

Sammy Guevara and Andrade apparently got in a backstage altercation and Andrade's match has been pulled.

https://www.tmz.com/2022/10/05/aew-d...ion-sent-home/

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Sammy Guevara and Andrade apparently got in a backstage altercation and Andrade's match has been pulled.

https://www.tmz.com/2022/10/05/aew-d...ion-sent-home/

Time to take a hard line and fire both of them I think. Sammy is clearly too immature to be in the position he's in and Andrade should know better.

[Blaster86]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=N4vIBijz...CKjOmKnC5IiRIQ

[SuperMatt18]

If Andrade is one of the guys who maybe is okay with leaving then his GAF is probably nothing and he’d probably be happy to be released

Edit: Sammy worked kind of stiff tonight, super nasty GTH on Garcia too. Guy probably shouldn’t have wrestled tonight

[CaptainCrunch]

So for all you old wrestling fans like me, the first episode of tales from the territories dropped on Crave tonight and covered the craziness of Jerry Jarretts Memphis territories.

A great look at the territory that believed that Wrestling was real and featured amazing storylines including Kaufman and Lawler.

By the same writing team as the Darkside of the Ring series, but also in combination with The Rock's 7 bucks production, it features of a round table of former workers and stars.

I'm looking really forward to the one on Stampede.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

If Andrade is one of the guys who maybe is okay with leaving then his GAF is probably nothing and he’d probably be happy to be released

Edit: Sammy worked kind of stiff tonight, super nasty GTH on Garcia too. Guy probably shouldn’t have wrestled tonight

Yeah, Sammy continues to show how unprofessional he is

https://twitter.com/user/status/1577312062547501056

Tony needs to get control of his dressing room, he needs to fire people like Sammy and Andrade who's just wasting his time there anyways.

Like I said he's got the perfect VP of talent relations in Jim Ross. And if you don't believe that Cowboy wouldn't start booting people if they don't get in line you need to go back to the time in WWE when Ross was Talent Relations.

[LIP MAN]

Happy Scissoring Day Everyone!

[Ozy_Flame]

I really enjoyed the Acclaimed segment last night. The crowd was white hot, and they were just being downright loveable. Also love that Billy Gunn has gotten a renewed character lease from all of this too. Guy is an excellent hype man. I also think his match with Swerve next week in Toronto is going to be a banger.

Speaking of which, Swerve is so so so much better as a heel.

[Muta]

Love the Acclaimed, and last night too was awesome. That said, I just hope they're cautious about hanging their hat on one particular joke and overdoing it. The 'scissor me daddy' thing was funny when it wasn't their main schtick, and used as a side hustle as one of many things that made up their gimmick. Now they're everywhere with it, and I have a feeling it's going to lose its lustre - and quickly - if they overdo it.

Things are always cool when in small doses; they need to remember that they've got a ton of talent in the ring, and on the mic, outside of this 'scissor me' stuff and that's how they're going to stay fresh.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Tony needs to get control of his dressing room, he needs to fire people like Sammy and Andrade who's just wasting his time there anyways.

Like I said he's got the perfect VP of talent relations in Jim Ross. And if you don't believe that Cowboy wouldn't start booting people if they don't get in line you need to go back to the time in WWE when Ross was Talent Relations.

Meltzer was saying that there are the 4 guys that want to go back to WWE and that they are poison in that dressing room right now.

My guess is Andrade, Miro, Malakai and not 100% sure of the 4th (maybe Keith Lee)

Honestly in that case just get rid of all of them and CM Punk and do a bit of a reset. I get that TK doesn't want the precident of letting guys out of their contracts but honestly it's better than letting them tear down the company from within.

It's something Vince got right in the 90s - you want to go to WCW then see you later.

[Ozy_Flame]

It's likely Buddy Murphy, his real life GF Rhea Ripley is in WWE. He's been heavily in the rumors about wanting out of AEW lately too.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Meltzer was saying that there are the 4 guys that want to go back to WWE and that they are poison in that dressing room right now.

My guess is Andrade, Miro, Malakai and not 100% sure of the 4th (maybe Keith Lee)

Honestly in that case just get rid of all of them and CM Punk and do a bit of a reset. I get that TK doesn't want the precident of letting guys out of their contracts but honestly it's better than letting them tear down the company from within.

It's something Vince got right in the 90s - you want to go to WCW then see you later.

Likely Andrade, Miro, Malakai and Murphy.

None of them have done particularly well in AEW, probably due to a combination of bad booking and bad production. WWE made them look like more exciting prospects so to speak then they were.

I think that for the most part Malakai is done for a while, he was a malcontent in WWE, as was Miro. Murphy is an excellent wrestler, and probably a solid mid card guy. Andrade has the Flair touch right now.

I think if they do get released they won't get a WWE offer right away, or they'll get a low dollar show me contract.

As for Lee, he's been bizarrely terrible in AEW, I expected more from him, but really from his mic work to his ring work he's been underwhelming.

With HHH determined to turn around the fortunes of NXT maybe he takes Buddy and Andrade and tells Miro to go pound sand.

[Ozy_Flame]

I love Cap's unmitigated hatred for AEW, he's a WWE guy for life