Star Trek (XI) - GO SEE IT!

[Matata]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

....

Nero came into this Universe, not back in time in his Universe, but a new one. Not sure if he knew this himself or not, but it is similar to Superboy Prime in DC, he goes from Universe to Universe seeking revenge for his destroyed home planet.

....

I think of it as Nero originally went back in time for revenge, but by acting in a manner that altered time, he created a new timeline. Like a branch growing a new branch on a tree. He was successful in extracting his revenge on Spock-Prime from his time, so mission accomplished there.

Spock-Prime originally stayed in the shadows, hoping to avoid creating a new timeline. At the end, he realized that time had irrevocably changed, and that his timeline was intact and seperate from this new timeline.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Matata

I think of it as Nero originally went back in time for revenge, but by acting in a manner that altered time, he created a new timeline. Like a branch growing a new branch on a tree. He was successful in extracting his revenge on Spock-Prime from his time, so mission accomplished there.

Spock-Prime originally stayed in the shadows, hoping to avoid creating a new timeline. At the end, he realized that time had irrevocably changed, and that his timeline was intact and seperate from this new timeline.

See that might be a cleaner understanding of it. But then you would have a new timeline every time Star Trek went back in time. The multiverse concept ala Yesterdays Enterprise makes more sense to me.

[Nehkara]

The actuals for the weekend just came out. Star Trek had a very strong 2nd weekend.

It finished at $43,034,547. Just $3.2 million behind Angels and Demons which was opening.

IN FACT, Star Trek beat Angels and Demons on both Saturday and Sunday!

Paramount is predicting a global take of around $400 million total.

[GreenLantern]

What sucks is that we are going to have to wait years for another one

I think I am going to see it againt this week.. Spock is awesome.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

What sucks is that we are going to have to wait years for another one

I think I am going to see it againt this week.. Spock is awesome.

Next one is scheduled for release in 2011. Not too long!

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

See that might be a cleaner understanding of it. But then you would have a new timeline every time Star Trek went back in time. The multiverse concept ala Yesterdays Enterprise makes more sense to me.

I can't leave this alone, here goes:

The best explanation I've gotten for 'time' is that it looks a tree, with new branches starting whenever an event happens. There has to be 2 (or more) seperate outcomes to this event that can alter the flow of time, yielding one branch for each event. An example for a time altering event would be Japans decision to bomb pearl harbour, they do and loose the war, or they don't and something else happens.

This concept makes travelling forwards in time much more difficult than travelling backwards. Travelling backwards is like climbing down a tree, but going forwards, you have to know exactly what branch to go to and how to get there.

Originally Spock did not want to get too involved since he wanted to keep the timeline intact. He's been in the past before and avoided altering the future, so he was able to return to his time (I don't know the original series too well). The Romulans attack on the USS Kelvin altered the timeline significantly, and Spock realized there was no going back, so he made the best of it.

Again, I'm not trying to turn this into '"I'm right you're wrong" I just think time travel is fun. Heres my primary reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jkxie...eature=related

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Matata

I can't leave this alone, here goes:

The best explanation I've gotten for 'time' is that it looks a tree, with new branches starting whenever an event happens. There has to be 2 (or more) seperate outcomes to this event that can alter the flow of time, yielding one branch for each event. An example for a time altering event would be Japans decision to bomb pearl harbour, they do and loose the war, or they don't and something else happens.

This concept makes travelling forwards in time much more difficult than travelling backwards. Travelling backwards is like climbing down a tree, but going forwards, you have to know exactly what branch to go to and how to get there.

Originally Spock did not want to get too involved since he wanted to keep the timeline intact. He's been in the past before and avoided altering the future, so he was able to return to his time (I don't know the original series too well). The Romulans attack on the USS Kelvin altered the timeline significantly, and Spock realized there was no going back, so he made the best of it.

Again, I'm not trying to turn this into '"I'm right you're wrong" I just think time travel is fun. Heres my primary reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jkxie...eature=related

Wasn't there an episode of Next Gen with Worf where he got time shifted in parallel events after a Bat'leth tourny where there ends up being like 1000 Enterprises from different universes where things were slighty to majorly different? At any rate I don't really care. I understand it for what it is. A excuse to violate canon without a 'traditional' reboot. I think I need to wash off my nerd right now.

[V]

Debating time travel over the internet. It doesn't get any cooler than that!

[awildermode]

more nerd stuff for you to read: Science of Star Trek...this time from NASA

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/technolog...star_trek.html

[Hack&Lube]

The problem is Star Trek is never clear on which method of time travel it uses. It goes between both the one timeline Back to the Future thing and the quantum universe thing (every possibility does happen, creating a parallel universe and an alternate timeline/reality like the Worf episode) whenever it suits the plot. The most famous parallel universes in Star Trek are also usually shown as evil universes that have existed for who knows how long where everybody has evil goatees and not explicitily the result of time travel creating new branches.

Most of Star Trek has been the single timeline thing, or when they have messed up the timeline and created an alternate future/past, they fix it and get back to the same one they came from again. There's even a police force that fixes the single timeline whenever somebody messes it up in the future in Voyager.

When Kirk goes back in the Guardian of Forever, they accidentally create an alternate reality where the Nazi's took over America and Starfleet doesn't exist and the Enterprise disappears, etc. but they fix it and then get back to exactly where they started. When they go back time in ST IV, they get the whales and end up back at the same future they left (otherwise, there are near infinite number of universes out there where Kirk didn't come back to that universe and earth was destroyed for having no whales). In Yesterday's Enterprise, the same thing happens as in movie (ship comes through a temporal distortion - when arriving it creates an alternate reality where the Federation is at war with the Klingons for 20 years...but they send Enterprise C back and everything if fixed again. But in that case, they sent it back through the same way it came and it was said to have arrived back where it started as if it had never left.

Maybe in Star Trek XI, because the Naranda hung around for 25 years and never went back the same way it came, things were irrevocably changed.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

The problem is Star Trek is never clear on which method of time travel it uses. It goes between both the one timeline Back to the Future thing and the quantum universe thing (every possibility does happen, creating a parallel universe and an alternate timeline/reality like the Worf episode) whenever it suits the plot.

Fine by me. Asking them to keep things simple enough for me to understand is unrealistic. It's freaking 400 years from now, we shouldn't expect to grasp every intricacy!

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

DA is aware that Romulous is still there, right?

And that's my problem with this movie. Nero knows exactly which star is going to go supernova and destroy Romulus. And he has that ability to create black holes. And he's ~130 years before the star goes supernova.

Why not go to that star; which is currently a red giant, and create the black hole a couple of AUs away from that star. If you get rid of the star that will eventually go supernova, you prevent Romulus from being destroyed.

I do like some parts of the creation of this alternate universe; it allows you to overcome continuity errors that creep up (things like Zephram Cochrane no longer being from Alpha Centuri; but Montana instead.)

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I do like some parts of the creation of this alternate universe; it allows you to overcome continuity errors that creep up (things like Zephram Cochrane no longer being from Alpha Centuri; but Montana instead.)

Didn't we retcon that by having Cochrane move to Alpha Centuri after First Contact with the Vulcans?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by ken0042

And that's my problem with this movie. Nero knows exactly which star is going to go supernova and destroy Romulus. And he has that ability to create black holes. And he's ~130 years before the star goes supernova.

Why not go to that star; which is currently a red giant, and create the black hole a couple of AUs away from that star. If you get rid of the star that will eventually go supernova, you prevent Romulus from being destroyed.

He was going to do that LATER. He's got lots of time in his mind. First, he's going to destroy the Federation because he believes that the whole thing was a conspiracy created by the Federation and Vulcan in the first place to destroy Romulus. It's clear that he is more hell bent on revenge and his selfish hatred than saving his own planet many times (even at the end of the movie where he'd rather see Romulus die 1000 times before accepting help). He's mor broken over what he will never get back - his wife and child and his relationship with them as he knew it than anything. And since he's entered an alternate timeline, saving Romulus won't magically make things alright for him. The Nero of this universe might be happy 130 years in the future, but evil Nero would still be lonely and full of spite with nowhere to go, a man forever out of his time and universe who can't return to his own time and place with things back the way it was.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by ken0042

And that's my problem with this movie. Nero knows exactly which star is going to go supernova and destroy Romulus. And he has that ability to create black holes. And he's ~130 years before the star goes supernova.

Why not go to that star; which is currently a red giant, and create the black hole a couple of AUs away from that star. If you get rid of the star that will eventually go supernova, you prevent Romulus from being destroyed.

Not only that, but what are Spock and Starfleet going to do about the fact that Romulus is going to be destroyed in 130 years? Just say screw it? Unless one of the sequels is going to be a mission to save Romulus.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Not only that, but what are Spock and Starfleet going to do about the fact that Romulus is going to be destroyed in 130 years?

Rack up a gigantic trade deficit?

edit: seriously though, that issue falls into the gigantic plot cop-out of a parallel universe - never happened here.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Not only that, but what are Spock and Starfleet going to do about the fact that Romulus is going to be destroyed in 130 years? Just say screw it? Unless one of the sequels is going to be a mission to save Romulus.

They have 130 years to go and the knowledge of Spock Prime and all the tech scanned from the Narada (one reason the Starfleet technology is more advanced than 60s Star Trek is explained by the Narada's appearance and the Kelvin's scans of it).

They'll take care of it later (just like Nero was going to do). In any case, it might not even happen since it's not even the same timeline/reality

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Rack up a gigantic trade deficit?

edit: seriously though, that issue falls into the gigantic plot cop-out of a parallel universe - never happened here.

I don't think it can fall into that since if it was naturally going to happen at the end of that star's life-cycle, then it would happen in all of the universes.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

They have 130 years to go and the knowledge of Spock Prime and all the tech scanned from the Narada (one reason the Starfleet technology is more advanced than 60s Star Trek is explained by the Narada's appearance and the Kelvin's scans of it).

They'll take care of it later (just like Nero was going to do). In any case, it might not even happen since it's not even the same timeline/reality

But they need to find more red matter first, since all of it was destroyed when they blew up the Narada.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by rubecube

But they need to find more red matter first, since all of it was destroyed when they blew up the Narada.

Spock Prime is around. He knows where to find and make the stuff. They've got 130 years. That's freaking forever when you know everything about what you are trying to invent. And it's Star Trek. You don't even need Red Matter. Red Matter was an emergency solution to fix something that was blowing up. If you know the sun is going to go nova ahead of time by over a century, they have other ways of fixing that (as has happened in the series sometime probably).