2023/24 Blue Jays Off Season Thread

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by browna

Again, goes back to my comment about Ohtani (and others) having the aspect of the Jays providing them the ability to be a bigger deal across an entire country here, than in even the largest of regional US markets.

In what way though? No player wants fans to turn against them, that's for sure, but fan support at at let's say a 9 in LA vs. a 10 in across Canada isn't substantial to be on someone's radar IMO. Money wise, LA would have more lucrative marketing offers.

I did see one irresponsible report of why he wouldn't choose Toronto, saying it was because of the Canadian dollar rate. If I recall, all the sports leagues in North America pay in USD (but in this case the Jays earn their revenue in CAD). Really wouldn't affect an athlete, aside from perhaps being an advantage to earn USD but spend in CAD. So I'm not sure how that reporter dropped the ball.

Anyway, I'm not against having a generational talent here. I just think on the Jays there are a few gaps and with limited money to spend (as in any organization), spending it on one guy and expecting a championship when he's not THE missing piece, isn't the best way to spend. I do realize though, if not Shohei, then that money is off the table, but I'd rather them sign a few $25M guys to have an end to end lineup threat, especially considering the vacancies.

I also have a feeling we'll get some type of word today.

[Jiggy_12]

could be a while still

https://twitter.com/user/status/1731337035464499335

[bluejays]

Just got an alert that the Jays are interested in Isaac Paredes. A lot makes sense in that in that his years batting free agents are going to be expensive. Probably shows more truth to the possibility of Ohtani if they go this route. He’s young and can murder the ball. Average is okay as well. Only concern would be the trade cost.

[ForeverFlameFan]

All of this news of the Jays being aggressive on getting bats is music to my ears. Glad to see they’re addressing the biggest problem from last year.

[bluejays]

Yeah. It seems much higher than previous years in numerous ways. It’s a positive that they’ll hit on at least one of these leads.

[browna]

Originally Posted by bluejays

In what way though? No player wants fans to turn against them, that's for sure, but fan support at at let's say a 9 in LA vs. a 10 in across Canada isn't substantial to be on someone's radar IMO. Money wise, LA would have more lucrative marketing offers.

I did see one irresponsible report of why he wouldn't choose Toronto, saying it was because of the Canadian dollar rate. If I recall, all the sports leagues in North America pay in USD (but in this case the Jays earn their revenue in CAD). Really wouldn't affect an athlete, aside from perhaps being an advantage to earn USD but spend in CAD. So I'm not sure how that reporter dropped the ball.

Anyway, I'm not against having a generational talent here. I just think on the Jays there are a few gaps and with limited money to spend (as in any organization), spending it on one guy and expecting a championship when he's not THE missing piece, isn't the best way to spend. I do realize though, if not Shohei, then that money is off the table, but I'd rather them sign a few $25M guys to have an end to end lineup threat, especially considering the vacancies.

I also have a feeling we'll get some type of word today.

I think, depending on a player, there's an aspect to having the country behind them and behind the team, not just a region, that could be appealing. Thr way the Jays are presented in this country by Snet and really all media, it's all in a positive manner, for better or worse. Also, there are millions more very casual baseball fans in this country because of the simple existence of the Blue Jays. They may not watch a game all season but because of the Jays they are aware of baseball.

Because of such widespread appeal, which goes hand in hand then of the way Snet delivers the Jays, and the huge diversity in intensity of the fandom levels, there isn't going to be the country turning against any player..if Vlad had the season he did as a Dodger or Yankee, he would be ripped apart in that market a lot more then he is here, on an overall level. Call in shows on the numerous sports radio stations, calls from the numerous media outlets in the market trying to get a story, vilify him, think he should be traded, and whip the fan base up against him. Here it's Snet, maybe some contrarian view by Steve Simmons and local Toronto media types, as the brunt of any negativity, which is a drop in the bucket to the fire you get from bigger media markets.

Same at a team level, when things are going well, and it's playoff time, the country gathers around the TV for wildcard games. Many semi casual Dodger fans dont turn on the TV until getting into a NLCS.

For a guy who's quiet and soft spoken, not needing a microphone in front of his face or spotlight on him but still appreciating wideapread support, I guess I can just see the appeal of having a generally positive fan base with a truly unique situation in that the fan base goes from coast to coast and spans all demographics, puts up decent TV numbers, and is fed by a national media environment they doesn't go overboard to pile on to the same extreme as large markets in the US, when things go south for a player or a team.

It's not for everyone or their personality and maybe it isn't for Ohtani, but for such a massive market the team and players are, at worst, relatively insulated from over the top criticism and are still lauded and recognized as stars with success.

As for FX rate assume it was a reporter worrying about the fact the team gets revenue (tickets and ad revenue and whatever Rogers charges itself) in Cad, when salaries are paid in US. Thats a Rogers problem, not free agents'.

Finally, I think you do whatever you can if Ohtani is at all interested. He's more than a generational talent, what he's done the last two years make him one of the most talented baseball players of all time, with years left in his career.

Does he put the Jays over the top? Nope..Him and Trout couldn't get the Angels anywhere by themselves. But because of his one of a kind status, the buzz you get, the other players around the league jumping on considering the Jays, with stable.ownership, a WS window open for a couple years, you take a very calculated risk that bringing him in and having him and his talents on the team, are going to pay off in other regards. Wining or getting to a WS is always the goal and it isn't guarateed with any roster or payroll amount, but Rogers paying half a billion dollars to give the team and country a better chance and bring the best player in baseball (by a mile) in his prime and the hope that it brings, is also pretty exciting and this would be a national, date I say International story if he decides to choose Canada.

[bluejays]

Very fair explanation browna. Can’t argue with much of that all in all. It’d be a great story if it happens. I don’t think you’d find a fan who would complain. To me it’s all about the rest of the roster if it happens. It’s a zero sum game when it comes to players as well as dollars spent. Would be a great story if it happened. Almost like a generation past where you’d say, “did you know Shohei played for the Jays once upon a time?” akin to a fact like Babe Ruth hitting his first career professional home run in Toronto.

[howard_the_duck]

Toronto has the unique attraction of being a big market with major media and marketing potential, but also significantly less spotlight than NY or BOS or LA.

For the right personality it’s actually the best of both worlds.

[browna]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Very fair explanation browna. Can’t argue with much of that all in all. It’d be a great story if it happens. I don’t think you’d find a fan who would complain. To me it’s all about the rest of the roster if it happens. It’s a zero sum game when it comes to players as well as dollars spent. Would be a great story if it happened. Almost like a generation past where you’d say, “did you know Shohei played for the Jays once upon a time?” akin to a fact like Babe Ruth hitting his first career professional home run in Toronto.

Understood, the transcendcey of the transaction ignores the fact that it helps fill one hole (for this season, as he only bats) in the lineup as a slugger.

You could navel gaze at a lot of positions on the Jays or any team that didn't t win the WS, but with Champman and Kiermeier likely out, a 3b is needed and an OF. OF could be solved by Soto, at again a high price but a fellow talented Dominican is also, in theory, is what Vlad lost last offseason and contributed to his sub oar season, and it may reinvigorate him this year to have a buddy.

As Sidney said above it would be a dream to get both.
Then you're just looking for a 3b...maybe Vlad can move back over there?
It really is nice not to have to handwringing about any part of the pitching, which gives the Jays a unique scenario this offseason to not worry about that nearly as much and focus on the reasons the bats went quiet when it mattered.

[Jiggy_12]

I'm optomistic that the delay in Shohei's decision is because during the meeting in LA with Ohtani's team, the Jays invited him down to Dunedin to tour their facilities and he agreed to go. I hope!

[bluejays]

Surprising in today’s day and age that you don’t have people spotting him in particular cities and tweeting about it. Private plane or not people should still be able to spot him around town.

[bluejays]

Also to add, my personal philosophy, not that it counts for much, is twofold:
1) for the infield, get guys who can get on base and are solid defenders. They don’t have to be mashers. That’s a bonus nice to have.
2) for outfield, get guys who can mash, hit for average and are decent defenders. No bad d as that could ruin you. Generally you can find these guys and you don’t have to pay a full premium as they did with Springer. Guys like Brantley fit the bill to a tee.

[Roof-Daddy]

I can see a scenario where the Jays add both Ohtani and Soto, extend Soto to a mega deal and in the next two years deal both Bo and Vladdy.

I think they'd like to extend Bo also, but he is apparently set on testing free agency in two years.

I think Vlad wants to extend but I doubt the FO wants to commit a huge amount of money to an overweight 1B who has seen his offense plummet the last two seasons and who also has very limited baseball IQ it would seem.

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I can see a scenario where the Jays add both Ohtani and Soto, extend Soto to a mega deal and in the next two years deal both Bo and Vladdy.

I think they'd like to extend Bo also, but he is apparently set on testing free agency in two years.

I think Vlad wants to extend but I doubt the FO wants to commit a huge amount of money to an overweight 1B who has seen his offense plummet the last two seasons and who also has very limited baseball IQ it would seem.

Yeah, you would lose a ton of prospects dealing for Soto, but could recoup an equal or greater amount back by trading Bo & Vladdy next winter. But until then, we would get 1 mega year with all of Ohtani, Bo, Soto, & Vladdy.

[Roof-Daddy]

I wonder if the Jays could lessen the price to acquire Soto by also taking Cronenworth from the Padres in the deal. He's played a lot of 1B and 2B the last couple seasons. He has a 7 year $80 million deal kicking in this year and they are trying to cut payroll big time.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I wonder if the Jays could lessen the price to acquire Soto by also taking Cronenworth from the Padres in the deal. He's played a lot of 1B and 2B the last couple seasons. He has a 7 year $80 million deal kicking in this year and they are trying to cut payroll big time.

And then flip Vladdy next year if he doesn’t improve. I wouldn’t mind that at all.

[bluejays]

Yeah - it could be part of their rationale here. See what you have by surrounding them with the best of the best (yet to be seen, but hopefully soon enough), then see what you have or don't. If everyone clicks, great, you have options of what to do next. If a subset are good and others don't meet expectations, you can sign the good guys to a long term deal and deal away the risks for young assets. That way you don't put all your eggs in one risky basket by signing Vlad to a long term deal and find out he won't ever be his rookie, self.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I can see a scenario where the Jays add both Ohtani and Soto, extend Soto to a mega deal and in the next two years deal both Bo and Vladdy.

I think they'd like to extend Bo also, but he is apparently set on testing free agency in two years.

I think Vlad wants to extend but I doubt the FO wants to commit a huge amount of money to an overweight 1B who has seen his offense plummet the last two seasons and who also has very limited baseball IQ it would seem.

Wondering the same. Where we’ve seen Bo linked in rumours already, combined with their interest in glove first infielders, gets me thinking a Bo move could be triggered by landing a guy like Soto.

Soto + prospects recouped in Bo trade + glove first infielder to play SS > Bo + current prospects crop

[ben voyonsdonc]

I don’t know why you’d go out and get a guy who has one year of team control - even a stud like Soto - but trade away your superstar SS who has two more years of team control. It doesn’t really make sense to me.

If they were to get Soto, I don’t think they’d take a step back by leaving a hole at a key position like SS. They’d have to completely raid the farm to get Soto but it would be worth it.

[Sylvanfan]

I don't know enough about Soto's defence to say too much. The concern for one year would be having him switch leagues and if that might cause him to start slowly and result in an off year. Even when he went from a bad Washington lineup to San Diego's stacked lineup he did originally struggle after the deal. But did seem to settle in to start last year. But when you only have the player for one year can you afford to have him struggle for 3 months settling in? Varsho didn't transition seamlessly from the NL to the AL even though the leagues now both have the DH. Long term though, he would be a great player to get given his age and production to date.

I think Ohtani's appeal is that he will sell tickets and suites in April and likely for the full season. Rogers is spending a lot to renovate the park and needs some hype to sell. Getting Soto just doesn't do that unless the team starts winning and people get whipped into a frenzy.