The success of the team is absolutely NOT based on Toffoli being a first line winger.
The success of the team is based on the strength of the goaltending, defense, and entire forward group. The first line will be carried by Huberdeau and Lindholm, and the RW just needs to pot some goals. If Toffoli does not perform satisfactorily, others will be tried.
But the team's success is not resting on him.
Not to mention there are quite a few successful teams who go with two grade A forwards on the top line plus a complementary guy who you wouldn't call an elite forward in an individual basis. TB had Kucherov and either Stamkos or Point on the top line, but the LW was Palat - a good player but not a household name.
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Toffoli was not put with a compatible centre for most of his tenure. He also got shuffled a whole lot, between Backlund, an injured Monahan and Jarnkrok. I expect he will be with either Lindholm or Kadri and his points will respond.
And fitness (especially at altitude) was an issue. Hopefully he's addressed that.
I kind of agree. I actually thought Toffoli looked his best in that short stint with Ruzicka, right before the jarnkrok trade.
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"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
Tanev is the biggest reason that happened IMO. No other team they played was missing their top D. The only team that shut them down was Colorado (and they still outscored Colorado). For playoff context, they didn't put McDrai together until part way through the LA series so here are there splits. Obviously some of these are small sample sizes:
McDrai 22GF - 9GA (Playoffs against all teams)
McDavid w/o Drai 9GF - 8GA (Playoffs against all teams)
Drai w/o McDavid 1GF - 9GA (Playoffs against all teams)
McDrai vs LA (37min), 4GF - 1GA
McDrai vs Flames (73min), 13GF - 4GA
McDrai vs Colorado (46min), 5GF - 4GA
McDrai vs the Flames pairings:
Hanifin Anderson (38min), 8GF-0GA
Tanev Kylington (10min), 0GF - 1GA
Gubranson Kylington (5min), 1GF-0GA
Zadorov Gudbranson (6min), 3GF-0GA
Bottom line is McDrai caved in every pair we had when Tanev was out of the lineup. They also caved in LA's top pair. The only pair they didn't cave in was Makar-Toews and McDrai still out performed that pair.
What the above tells me is Hanifin Anderson can't handle McDrai. That leads me to believe that Darryl will try split Hanifin Anderson to try get 2 pairs that won't get caved in. I also think losing Hanifin or Anderson by way of trade makes it much more difficult to get 2 pairs that won't get caved in.
Yeah, I wasn’t really talking about them together. Just the 2 of them. Every other team beat the Oilers other than us and LA. I guess you could argue both teams were missing a key dman, tanev and Doughty
Point is you can beat the Oilers without totally shutting down McDavid and Drai.
Tanev is the biggest reason that happened IMO. No other team they played was missing their top D. The only team that shut them down was Colorado (and they still outscored Colorado). For playoff context, they didn't put McDrai together until part way through the LA series so here are there splits. Obviously some of these are small sample sizes:
McDrai 22GF - 9GA (Playoffs against all teams)
McDavid w/o Drai 9GF - 8GA (Playoffs against all teams)
Drai w/o McDavid 1GF - 9GA (Playoffs against all teams)
McDrai vs LA (37min), 4GF - 1GA
McDrai vs Flames (73min), 13GF - 4GA
McDrai vs Colorado (46min), 5GF - 4GA
McDrai vs the Flames pairings:
Hanifin Anderson (38min), 8GF-0GA
Tanev Kylington (10min), 0GF - 1GA
Gubranson Kylington (5min), 1GF-0GA
Zadorov Gudbranson (6min), 3GF-0GA
Bottom line is McDrai caved in every pair we had when Tanev was out of the lineup. They also caved in LA's top pair. The only pair they didn't cave in was Makar-Toews and McDrai still out performed that pair.
What the above tells me is Hanifin Anderson can't handle McDrai. That leads me to believe that Darryl will try split Hanifin Anderson to try get 2 pairs that won't get caved in. I also think losing Hanifin or Anderson by way of trade makes it much more difficult to get 2 pairs that won't get caved in.
Drew Doughty?
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I kind of agree. I actually thought Toffoli looked his best in that short stint with Ruzicka, right before the jarnkrok trade.
His points came mostly from playing with Mangiapane and Backlund but then again that's where he spent most time. He actually look OK with Dube and Monahan, which is an accomplishment as well considering Monahan was on one rebuilt hip and one that needed to be rebuilt.
Yeah, I wasn’t really talking about them together. Just the 2 of them. Every other team beat the Oilers other than us and LA. I guess you could argue both teams were missing a key dman, tanev and Doughty
Point is you can beat the Oilers without totally shutting down McDavid and Drai.
No debate there. What I hope is we have a line-up to cave in McDrai when they are apart and play as close to even as we can when they are together. The top four D we have now will go a long way to help that cause and while I think we need another forward, I'm not trading any of those top 4 to get one.
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Why do people equate trading Hanifin to dumping Hanifin
Look at the return we got for Dougie Hamilton including Hanifin
If you believe Hanifin is your 3rd or even 4th best and most valuable D and you can deal him to a team where he is their 2nd, you can extract more value and build a stronger team
If you believe Hanifin is , or will develop to be one of your two most important D, you keep him
I don’t think he is as good as the other 3 guys and think is a great opportunity to extract value and improve the team
Yeah, I don’t get why including a player in trade scenarios = firing him into the sun or hating him. If you want get a good player back in a trade, you have to give up a good player. If all you’re willing to move out is marginal NHLers and depth guys (ie Valimaki, Dube), then all you should expect back are marginal NHLers and depth guys.
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Yeah, I don’t get why including a player in trade scenarios = firing him into the sun or hating him. If you want get a good player back in a trade, you have to give up a good player. If all you’re willing to move out is marginal NHLers and depth guys (ie Valimaki, Dube), then all you should expect back are marginal NHLers and depth guys.
I don't think people are accusing these propositions as hate related (though there are some posts that seriously undervalue Hanifin as a player).
It's that the Flames right now have a really good top 4 and worked hard to get there. A RW to me just isn't as important.
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His points came mostly from playing with Mangiapane and Backlund but then again that's where he spent most time. He actually look OK with Dube and Monahan, which is an accomplishment as well considering Monahan was on one rebuilt hip and one that needed to be rebuilt.
I thought he looked the worst next to Dube and Monahan. That line could barely get into the o zone let alone get anything going together.
This... does not sound like a Sutter-type player, or a player who wants to play under a guy like Sutter.
Sutter would have conniptions trying to coach Kessel. I couldn't imagine Sutter endorsing a Phil Kessel acquisition. If a Phil Kessel on a $49 million contract wasn't showing discipline, I can't imagine how non-committed he would be making less than $2 million on a one year deal.
He sounds like a cool guy at the street level, but I wouldn't want him as a teammate now that his goal scoring has died off. I also wouldn't want that attitude rubbing off on young player just coming in to the NHL.
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I do wonder what a trade for Nylander would look like involving Hanifin. Who would have to add? I can see the argument for either side adding. It could be something where both sides add something interesting.
To the Leafs: Hanifin + Valimaki
To the Flames: Nylander + Holl
The flames get a legit top line RW and a depth defenceman with size (something Sutter would covet). The Leafs get a top 2/3 defenceman on a great contract and they gain cap space. Plus they get a young defenceman in Valimaki who could still turn into a 4-6 defenceman in the NHL.
With the Leafs having Reilly, Muzzin, Gio all left shots I am not sure where Hanifin fits there as they already have Brodie as a left shot on his offside.
Leafs also have Sandin contract issues right now. They are over the cap, don't really have much for LTIR options to start the season that I know of either. Something has to give but I wouldn't mind taking a chance on Sandin.
Not sure when the next buyout period starts but it seems like there could be a ton of action when that happens. Some of these RFAs might sign after players get bought out
If they Flames were to trade Hanifin for a forward I wonder if we can then turn around a look at getting Dumba? Minnesota is a mess with the Parise/Suter buy outs and with Boldy being an RFA, I could see Dumba being on the move with their lack of cap.
Might be a decent way to add a forward for Hanifin and then add back a dman as well. Hanifin with the extra year should have more value
Leafs also have Sandin contract issues right now. They are over the cap, don't really have much for LTIR options to start the season that I know of either. Something has to give but I wouldn't mind taking a chance on Sandin.
He wouldn't get much of a chance. Who would he replace here?
If they Flames were to trade Hanifin for a forward I wonder if we can then turn around a look at getting Dumba? Minnesota is a mess with the Parise/Suter buy outs and with Boldy being an RFA, I could see Dumba being on the move with their lack of cap.
Might be a decent way to add a forward for Hanifin and then add back a dman as well. Hanifin with the extra year should have more value
Flames have 3 top 4 D who are right shots in Anderson, Weegar and Tanev. Not sure why they are adding another who is pending UFA in the 28 year old Dumba?
Dumba is another one of those players (like Kadri) that I feel is destined to end up here at some point. I know his cousin, so I've quietly been keeping tabs for a while now.
Another one obviously being Cale Makar.. one day down the road. I think that's happening. More so after those Kadri nuggets.
