[News] Monahan on LTIR with season ending surgery. Kylington day to day. Mackey called up

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Dude scored 22 goals without Gaudreau, as an 18 year old. Getting only 16 minutes per game. With guys like Sven, Colborne and Stempniak.

James Neal scored 24 as a rookie with nobody also, so?

It’s been 10 years since his rookie year. He has tons of injuries and been struggling for 3 yrs now. It’s a miracle if he returns to form.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

James Neal scored 24 as a rookie with nobody also, so?

It’s been 10 years since his rookie year. He has tons of injuries and been struggling for 3 yrs now. It’s a miracle if he returns to form.

His present status wasn't the point, but thanks for your contribution.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Dude scored 22 goals without Gaudreau, as an 18 year old. Getting only 16 minutes per game. With guys like Sven, Colborne and Stempniak.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

His present status wasn't the point, but thanks for your contribution.

You mentioned his 22 goals when a poster mentioned that he would find it shocking if Monahan returned to form. Wasn't that the whole point of you bringing up his rookie season production? or am I missing something?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

His present status wasn't the point, but thanks for your contribution.

It's a fair comparable in terms of saying that a great rookie season does not necessarily equate to still having all the tools in the toolbox after years of wear and tear.

For Neal, I think it was more a poor attitude whereas Monahan still puts his heart into it.

Nonetheless, it's a fair comparison as Monahan just finished his 9th season.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

You mentioned his 22 goals when a poster mentioned that he would find it shocking if Monahan returned to form. Wasn't that the whole point of you bringing up his rookie season production? or am I missing something?

The whole point of bringing up Monahan's rookie season production is that he wasn't created out of nothing by Gaudreau.

[Inglewood Jack]

Johnny is simultaneously the best and worst thing that happened to Monahan's career. if they had never been united, I can imagine Mony developing into a much better puck carry/control centre, who then doesn't spend nearly as much time parked in the slot waiting for a pass and getting punished by defenseman.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The whole point of bringing up Monahan's rookie season production is that he wasn't created out of nothing by Gaudreau.

He had 34 points his rookie year, and basically doubled it when the rookie Johnny came along.

He clearly wasn't created out of nothing, but if Johnny hadn't come along, he might have ended up being a 40-50 point guy without the proper line mates.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

Johnny is simultaneously the best and worst thing that happened to Monahan's career. if they had never been united, I can imagine Mony developing into a much better puck carry/control centre, who then doesn't spend nearly as much time parked in the slot waiting for a pass and getting punished by defenseman.

Hard to say worse thing when Johnny likely contributed heavily to the millions Monny has made.

But your point is indeed valid.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

It's a fair comparable in terms of saying that a great rookie season does not necessarily equate to still having all the tools in the toolbox after years of wear and tear.

For Neal, I think it was more a poor attitude whereas Monahan still puts his heart into it.

Nonetheless, it's a fair comparison as Monahan just finished his 9th season.

No - the point was a response to Monahan being made solely out of Johnny Gaudreau. It had nothing to do with his present ability or fitness. Everyone knows about that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

You mentioned his 22 goals when a poster mentioned that he would find it shocking if Monahan returned to form. Wasn't that the whole point of you bringing up his rookie season production? or am I missing something?

You missed the reference to "the Johnny years". It was the usual "he would have been nothing without Gaudreau" innuendo. He had 22 goals at 18 on mainly the second line with a lot of secondary players. Note - this was second on the team in goals, so the notion he was hiding may not be as accurate as some might think.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You missed the reference to "the Johnny years". It was the usual "he would have been nothing without Gaudreau" innuendo. He had 22 goals at 18 on mainly the second line with a lot of secondary players. Note - this was second on the team in goals, so the notion he was hiding may not be as accurate as some might think.

He also scored half those goals before December if memory serves, was pumped full of soft assignments and sheltered like what was warranted by Hartley

What is this argument even about? Its like 2 different conversations

Going to be waiting for a long time for 20 from Monahan me thinks

Time is a cruel mistress and there's no DeLorean kicking around

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

He also scored half those goals before December if memory serves, was pumped full of soft assignments and sheltered like what was warranted by Hartley

What is this argument even about? Its like 2 different conversations

Going to be waiting for a long time for 20 from Monahan me thinks

Time is a cruel mistress and there's no DeLorean kicking around

Well, there are multiple conversations. This particular one is in reference to one line about him and Johnny.

Your argument is that half his goals were scored in the first half of the season? When were the other half scored?

In fact he got 9 goals before December. 13 after that.

Yeah, Monahan's later success is tied to Gaudreau. But I suspect he was a good player without, in his best years. Like Conroy. Without Iginla (in LA), Conroy had his second highest point total.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, there are multiple conversations. This particular one is in reference to one line about him and Johnny.



Your argument is that half his goals were scored in the first half of the season? When were the other half scored?



In fact he got 9 goals before December. 13 after that.



Yeah, Monahan's later success is tied to Gaudreau. But I suspect he was a good player without, in his best years. Like Conroy. Without Iginla (in LA), Conroy had his second highest point total.

Before December is 2 months. Season, last time I checked, isn't 4 months long

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Before December is 2 months. Season, last time I checked, isn't 4 months long

9 isn't half of 22 either. Nor is 15 half of 34 if you want to talk points. His second best month was March (4 goals versus 6, 8 points versus 10). He was the same all year. Some big months and some leaner.

Your memory of Monahan's rookie year is flawed, maybe because of narrative?

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

9 isn't half of 22 either. Nor is 15 half of 34 if you want to talk points. His second best month was March (4 goals versus 6, 8 points versus 10). He was the same all year. Some big months and some leaner.



Your memory of Monahan's rookie year is flawed, maybe because of narrative?

If memory serves I believe I said lol

Didn't feel like checking, my bad

He started out super fast though. Was it 6 goals in 10 games? It was close. Leaves 16 in 72. Decent but let's not use that season to trick us

[Jay Random]

So, to sum up: Monahan was nothing without Gaudreau. The 22-goal season he had before Gaudreau was ever on the team doesn't count because reasons, he was still nothing.

Narrative for the win!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

If memory serves I believe I said lol

Didn't feel like checking, my bad

He started out super fast though. Was it 6 goals in 10 games? It was close. Leaves 16 in 72. Decent but let's not use that season to trick us

Yes, he started fast, and no, that season isn't tricking anyone. Let's just acknowledge that 22 goals as an 18 year old playing with mostly 2nd and 3rd liners is not nothing and probably bodes well for a career for any NHLer.

Obviously Gaudreau boosted his stats. Though absent a finisher like Monahan was and with, let's say, Backlund or (worse yet) Colborne, Stajan or Granlund, what do Johnny's stats look like in those early years?

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

So, to sum up: Monahan was nothing without Gaudreau. The 22-goal season he had before Gaudreau was ever on the team doesn't count because reasons, he was still nothing.

Narrative for the win!

Didn't say that lol

My contention is leaning on that rookie season to argue pretty much any angle in 2022, especially with the injuries... is a reach

Impressive rookie year but people just yelling 20+ with no context and using it as proof for his future potential... I dunno

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Didn't say that lol

My contention is leaning on that rookie season to argue pretty much any angle in 2022, especially with the injuries... is a reach

Impressive rookie year but people just yelling 20+ with no context and using it as proof for his future potential... I dunno

citation needed

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

citation needed

Sorry guess my semantic game is rusty