Slow motion land grab, another 15 years of this and they'll have all of Ukraine.
Putin won't live this long. I also can't grasp the point of a such land grab. Putin talked alot about NATO and Russian safety and this is the only part that is reasonable.
Putin sure is making a good case for why Ukraine would want their territory protected by NATO.
Russian actions, however disgusting they are, are defensive and made out of fear. It's all happening at Russian doorsteps, not US doorsteps. Every Russia's aggressive move was in response. Crimea annexation didn't happen out if the blue, but rather after a coup. Now this is happening because US has quit several key defensive agreements (which by the way is another truth in generally phony speech). Putin feels cornered.
Russian actions, however disgusting they are, are defensive and made out of fear. It's all happening at Russian doorsteps, not US doorsteps. Every Russia's aggressive move was in response. Crimea annexation didn't happen out if the blue, but rather after a coup. Now this is happening because US has quit several key defensive agreements (which by the way is another truth in generally phony speech). Putin feels cornered.
Fair enough - he is effectively a dog trapped in a corner; so ya, of course he is going to bite - but when the rest of the world is effectively your owner & vet - do you (Putin) really think this is going to end well?
Wish the west had some balls and immediately admitted Ukraine to NATO.
Fair enough - he is effectively a dog trapped in a corner; so ya, of course he is going to bite - but when the rest of the world is effectively your owner & vet - do you (Putin) really think this is going to end well?
Wish the west had some balls and immediately admitted Ukraine to NATO.
Ballsy moves by the west might result in nuclear war. Putin feels cornered and looked unusually unstable in this speech. He specifically mentioned that US missiles could reach Moscow in 5 minutes, if based in east Ukraine. Ballsy moves is the last thing we need. The west needs to do something to calm him down.
Some clarification: Russia recognize rebel republics in their current borders. NOT in their original borders, which were twice as big. That's at least some relief.
Fair enough - he is effectively a dog trapped in a corner; so ya, of course he is going to bite - but when the rest of the world is effectively your owner & vet - do you (Putin) really think this is going to end well?
Wish the west had some balls and immediately admitted Ukraine to NATO.
I think this is sort of what people are getting at.
If the West had immediately admitted Ukraine to NATO it probably would have kicked off WWIII.
Slow, steady actions that allow discussions to continue are probably for the best in hopes that cooler heads prevail.
I dont think anybody really wants to go to War and, with all due respect, I dont think 'The West' would particularly want to go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
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A really interesting Instagram follow is COSSACKGUNDI who is a British citizen fighting for the Ukrainian marines. He is on the frontlines of the Donbass in an artillery position, and has really good updates about the fighting at the front.
Fair enough - he is effectively a dog trapped in a corner; so ya, of course he is going to bite - but when the rest of the world is effectively your owner & vet - do you (Putin) really think this is going to end well?
Wish the west had some balls and immediately admitted Ukraine to NATO.
I don't think Ukraine has officially applied to join NATO yet. They had an application and withdrew it before the annexation of Crimea by Russia. They have joined the enhanced partnership program with NATO in 2020 (other countries in the program include South Korea, Colombia, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Mongolia, and Pakistan) and then passed legislation last month that makes NATO membership the goal of the current government, but as far as I know, they haven't gone through an official application process for joining.
NATO has a policy that any European country can apply to join, so nothing is stopping them from doing that except for the current political situation. But until they go through the democratic process within their own government structure, NATO can't just admit them in. There are also going to be a few current NATO members that will argue against it.
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Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 02-21-2022 at 04:07 PM.
I don't think Ukraine has officially applied to join NATO yet. They had an application and withdrew it before the annexation of Crimea by Russia. They have joined the enhanced partnership program with NATO in 2020 (other countries in the program include South Korea, Colombia, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Mongolia, and Pakistan) and then passed legislation last month that makes NATO membership the goal of the current government, but as far as I know, they haven't gone through an official application process for joining.
NATO has a policy that any European country can apply to join, so nothing is stopping them from doing that except for the current political situation. But until they go through the democratic process within their own government structure, NATO can't just admit them in. There are also going to be a few current NATO members that will argue against it.
Ya, you're bang on the technicalities - and I suspect the fact it has to be unanimous would get in the way, but I was moreso thinking from a "nuclear option" (ie Ukraine applies and Nato covenes special meeting to instant approve sort of thing). That or a few Nato countries post up in Ukraine unilaterally.
That said, like Crimea, stopping Putin from annexing an area that Russian citizens already control is basically impossible without full on war, so really, the separatist areas of the Donbas are toast. Suspect we'll see Russian soldiers there in short order in a defensive posture, and applications to become federal subjects by Donetsk and Luhansk shortly thereafter.
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This is what the rest of the world felt like in 1850 to 1990 when we pretty much did what we wanted, it really comes down to the west no longer being in charge, this is China's century
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This is what the rest of the world felt like in 1850 to 1990 when we pretty much did what we wanted, it really comes down to the west no longer being in charge, this is China's century
It comes down to nuclear countries and those in defense alliances with them can do whatever they want to non nuclear countries because no one can risk a war.
As per both Russian and western media, Putin's decrees on recognizing independence contains orders to the troops to enter Donetsk region for peacekeeping duties. Wonder why Putin never mentioned it while he spent an hour addressing the nation. Some reports in the western media about troops actually being in already. Russians don't report it, yet.
In the meantime here's a 2019 article about US naval base Putin was talking about
As per article which I understand to be written by the west:
"Of course this modernisation will annoy Russia side, because they will feel the NATO existence very near. We wonder the next move of Russia to prevent this"
Informative video on the current situation, but the real reason that I am posting this is I want to know who that guy in the corner is mouthing words. He seems to show up on a lot of videos, including the most recent John Oliver segment in the Convoy thread.
I did a Google search and all that I found is that he pops up all over the place and no one seems to know why. Does anyone here know what that is all about?
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Sanctions incoming. This will end up with people dying and Russia facing boatloads of sanctions and hurting their own economy. Germany has halted certifications for a natural gas pipeline from Russia which is something the US has wanted them to do for a while. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/22/b...a-germany.html
Will also raise energy prices in the EU... Which have already been increasing.
