Seven Days in Kabul

[zamler]

The deadline has not happened yet, people should be able to leave without being beaten, raped, shot and god knows what else. Can't believe I even have to say this.

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by zamler

The deadline has not happened yet, people should be able to leave without being beaten, raped, shot and god knows what else. Can't believe I even have to say this.

I agree!

Yet still ask why they stayed when they knew the USA was pulling out.

Everyone knew this was happening. Why stay to the last minute?

Makes no sense what so ever.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by zamler

You're actually saying people being unable to simply get to the airport they are told to go to, was the inevitable outcome? What a crock of ####.

nm - not worth it

[Knightslayer]

Forgive my ignorance but now that Taliban took over does that mean the Airport will be permanently closed? Wouldn't there still be flights coming and going or will the Taliban ban people from flying in and out.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Forgive my ignorance but now that Taliban took over does that mean the Airport will be permanently closed? Wouldn't there still be flights coming and going or will the Taliban ban people from flying in and out.

I doubt there will be any flights for months, you need air traffic controllers, airport maintenance staff to keep the lights, radar even the stairs and luggage trucks running, some of those will be on a plane out of the country already, those that are still in country will be at home keeping their head down waiting to see how the land lies

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

I agree!

Yet still ask why they stayed when they knew the USA was pulling out.

Everyone knew this was happening. Why stay to the last minute?

Makes no sense what so ever.

Because Kabul isnt Cancun, there arent a vast number of flights, they mostly fly to Pakistan India and nearby countries which makes travel complex and very expensive, flying to the west as a Afghan Muslim without tip top paperwork is impossible and then Covid as well.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Forgive my ignorance but now that Taliban took over does that mean the Airport will be permanently closed? Wouldn't there still be flights coming and going or will the Taliban ban people from flying in and out.

What Wimbledon said, and also, Taleban is actively trying to prevent (even more) educated people from leaving the country, especially people like doctors and people with technical and governmental skills, and those latter groups heavily overlap with "people who worked with the US". This is a big reason why the heads of Taleban want to stop people from leaving, it's not just (or even mainly) because they want to punish "traitors".

(...but obviously there is a notable section within the Taleban who are all about revenge, so the people who want to leave have extremely legitimate reasons to be afraid, I don't want to confuse the issue on whether or not the west should try to evacuate the people who worked with them. Interpreters who worked with the western militaries are especially effed, as they were most directly involved in what the Taleban view as a reign of western occupation and terror, and the Taleban has no major need for their skills.)

It's worth remembering that the Taleban is trying to create a stable country. They might be extreme conservatives, but they (at least the current version) is no ISIS. (In fact they're in direct conflict with the local ISIS faction, known as ISIS-K.)

ISIS at it's worst is basically a doomsday cult.

The goal of Taleban is to bring peace and stability into Afghanistan, to end the wars and become recognized as a legitimate government and do all the normal related things like foreign trade. Their idea of peace and stability just stems from a belief in the superiority of conservative muslim values, and being born in refugee camps and in a country with a 40 year history of more or less continuous war, their idea of peace and stability is... let's say questionable. Plus there's a lot of people in Afghanistan who are quite willing to die rather than let the Taleban rule them (and for good reasons), which is why peace is probably not around the corner.

(There is a lot of war weariness though, so who knows what's going to happen.)

Additionally, I've been thinking about this:
If the situation was reversed, you think the US would allow Taleban to organize an evacuation of their supporters, and what does that say about the western approach to "bringing peace to Afghanistan".

[Baron von Kriterium]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1430888615345750018

The explosion (from VBIED or PBIED?) was apparently in the vicinity of the Abbey gate and the Baron Hotel (on the east side).

Several casualties among civs and NATO troops.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1430899288654049290

[CaptainCrunch]

Second explosion reported.
US Military personal were injured.
Canada ended the airlift this morning our time, we got out 3700, but thousands have been left behind.
Likely ISIS-K is responsible in their desire to out crazy the crazy.

[Itse]

This is a worthwhile read, pointing out that Taleban is actually a somewhat fragile coalition.

The Taleban leadership are no more control of the country than president Ghani was, probably less so, as they can't even control all of their own troops within Kabul.

https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/th...control-kabul/

[Baron von Kriterium]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Likely ISIS-K is responsible in their desire to out crazy the crazy.

As I've aged, I've become more cynical. I think the more likely scenario is that someone wants to pin this on ISIS-K. CIA Boss was in Kabul on Monday to speak with Taliban, which tells me there is phuckery afoot. No sooner did the visit end and the Taliban and the USA announce there is a credible ISIS-K threat. Because of ISIS-K threat, gives the West an excuse to get out of Kabul. Imagine that, an explosion (or two) and they can now say, "See, we were right."

[Baron von Kriterium]

Originally Posted by Itse

This is a worthwhile read, pointing out that Taleban is actually a somewhat fragile coalition.

The Taleban leadership are no more control of the country than president Ghani was, probably less so, as they can't even control all of their own troops within Kabul.

https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/th...control-kabul/

This is a decent assessment. The Taliban leadership certainly doesn't need any terrorist activity right now. But who is to say what some of the factions loitering around the airport think? They might have wanted to send one last message to NATO.

[CaptainCrunch]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1430856728896278530

[zamler]

Good thing they are telling people to be mindful otherwise they could get themselves into real trouble.

[CaptainCrunch]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1430876024494084100

[Jacks]

Just watched the Trudeau presser on this. Says everyone has been working so hard, says they've been on it for weeks or months (then later said weeks). Seemed proud to say that we've had 17 flights since the beginning of August. Not sure if he realizes that doesn't sound terribly impressive. Promises that Canada will still somehow be relocating 20,000 people, not sure how the hell that is going to work.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=...1&binPageNum=1

[Baron von Kriterium]

At least 43 dead, including four US Marines, and 130 wounded.

[zamler]

No words.

[Nyah]

There are now unconfirmed reports of up to 10 US servicemen killed. Again, it's not confirmed yet but I would expect the number to rise from four.

[FlamesAddiction]

Here is a list of countries that took Afghan refugees in 2020. I can't seem to find 2021 data so I am sure the numbers are going to change significantly. Canada was 19th and the U.S. was 22nd in the number of refugees accepted last year, which seems really low considering the roles both countries played there.

https://www.unhcr.org/refugee-statis...ad/?url=7QCp6d

It will be interesting to see was the numbers go to in 2021.