Spoilers allowed - Star Wars Episode IX

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GGG

I won’t defend the movie making choices like the cold open, the casino planet or the low speed chase. They were bad. But watching each one again LTJ is clearly better the ROS. Under any bit of scrutiny Star Wars Maguffin Hunt falls a part. At least LTJ try’s to do something it succeeds creating a compelling Kylo/Rey relationship. It succeeds at making Luke interesting. It succeeds at making the universe feel lived in. It also fails at many things. But to me it tried to be its own movie in Star Wars. JJs first nostalgia fest was entertaining but then he just did it again. Treverrow continuing on from where LTJ left off seems like it would have been better.

New force powers have been introduced in every movie. It went from a feeling that guided you, to chucking rocks and lifting space ships, to force lightning, to dreams that tell the future, to magic light savers that could pass messages to Force time, to the force Dias re-birth / super ship killing lightning. Critiquing last Jedi for “new” force powers is ridiculous.

Rian didn’t say that the Jedi religion didn’t exist anymore. The movie ends on Yoda saying she has everything she needs and Rey having the books. It’s set up for Rey to rebuild the order into something new that won’t cause endless cycles of suffering.

To each his own I guess. To me the tone was way too comedic. What part felt lived in? That casino sequence? The first order walking around like Monty Python characters? Snokes' guards doing ballet during battle? Least lived in of all Star wars material thus far.

Luke interesting? Because he milked a giant thing and then had a tantrum.

It wasn't just the new force powers it was their scope. Previously, there was always some subtlety to the force powers. You couldn't just use them to entirely solve problems. They could use them with great concentration to manipulate objects or push people. Abrams may have been even worse, as relatively untrained users are now stopping space ships at a distance in flight.

The Ray/Ren thing was horribly butchered. Was their relationship romantic? Brother/sister? Do we need the shirtless Driver Skype calls? They have very little chemistry, and don't even interact that much yet we're supposed to believe the greatest bond in the Star Wars universe ever exists between them. This was Abrams failure too, but all the distractions Johnson created didn't help.

[CroFlames]

God I forgot about shirtless Driver. It was jarring how out of place that was.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

God I forgot about shirtless Driver. It was jarring how out of place that was.

Just to remind you:



Smooth and shiny Adam Driver in a pair of extremely high waisted pants....to build....romance/tension/general awkwardness....with his love interest/relative/colleague?

[CroFlames]

It's times like these we need the downvote button.

Friggen gross.

[peter12]

The more time that elapses from when I first watched these movies, the more I realize what utterly forgettable, unexciting pieces of corporate garbage they really are.

Rogue One is probably the only one that actually managed to capture some of the spirit of the originals while still being innovative.

[Rando]

Finally saw it last night, was in no rush, and I think I should've waited. What a donker of a film. It started out so spastic and never stopped.

The worst part of this trilogy is how nothing is earned. The emotions, the friendships, the hardships of battle.. none of these things are earned. We the viewers are told they're besties and just have to accept that. Finn is a nothing character, Poe is boring, and what an utter waste the C-3P0 memory wipe was. It was a bigger moment in the trailer.

What a useless tit Kylo Ren is too. Did anyone ever buy Adam Driver as an imposing figure? He's so ponchy.

Rey is the only interesting character and actor in the entire thing. I genuinely like Daisy Ridley and the Rey character.

Like X-Men, Disney needs to give this franchise a break. Don't even announce another movie for five years.

[TheScorpion]

Bob Iger basically said as much on the earnings call yesterday, Rando. Star Wars movies are effectively on hiatus and the franchise is only really moving forward with the Mandalorian in the immediate future.

I honestly don't think I've ever had less interest in a series of movies than with the Star Wars sequels. To me, they're the cinematic equivalent of corn nog, creamed eels, and wadded beef.

[Hemi-Cuda]

I don't understand why Star Wars is so hard. Disney is able to pump out a crapload of Marvel movies that satisfy hardcore fans and the general public alike, why can't they do the same for SW?

[CaptainCrunch]

As good as the Marvel movies have been they really didn't change the movie going world like ANH did and then the rest of the OT.



The expectation is that Star Wars movies are a event and not just a movie series. You combine that with the die hard fanbase that have a really specific expectation of what Star Wars is.


As well, I think these last movies lost their way and really took the movies too seriously and because they were so tense in them they couldn't help but make serious structural mistakes.

[nik-]

Avengers movies were events and they still didn't buckle under the weight of telling a coherent story. They don't have to change the world. A solid well thought out story that actually has an arc, good character development, reasonable action scenes that aren't overbearing, and some light touches of comedy.

That's literally it. Almost none of that was done.

This wasn't about trying too hard to make an event story. It was a group of people taking an IP and saying "these people will come no matter what". And mostly they did. There are even people in this thread saying we should just be happy that there's more Star Wars. No, that's bull####. That attitude is why we have this garbage.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

As good as the Marvel movies have been they really didn't change the movie going world like ANH did and then the rest of the OT.
.

Yes, they really did. What Disney and Marvel did had never even been attempted in movies before.

And A New Hope was forty years ago.

Just write a cohesive story, the world is rich and the framework for them are there.

[Inglewood Jack]

Avengers Endgame is a movie 11 years in the making. it took almost as long as Boyhood! I'm skeptical that we'll see a cumulative cinematic achievement like that again.

I didn't expect nor need anything that comprehensive from Star Wars. but I thought a solid trilogy over the course of 4 years would be a layup in comparison...

[Rando]

Revenge of the Skywalker or whatever it's called was so bad that I'm angry at CaptainCrunch's last post.

Infinity War and End Game were the big event movies of the last.. Ever? They weren't just part of a series, like an episode of Matlock, they are the cultivation of a decade of slow methodical story telling. Weaving hundreds of characters and arcs into one massive movie.

Oh poor Star Wars, their fans are too rabid. Unlike the calm not at all clinically insane comic book fan.

JJ Abrams did the exact same thing with Star Trek, retold an old story with a reboot for a ew audience then totally dropped the ball.

Remember how Finn was on the Force Awakens poster holding a light saber? They should've actually done something with that. What a useless and empty character.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by peter12

Luke vs Vader both times were the best lightsabre duels. The rest are just dancefighting.

The original trilogy duels are the only good ones. They fought like Knights, strong powerful heavy weapons.

[nik-]

I hate JJ Abrams

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by nik-

I hate JJ Abrams

[CaptainCrunch]

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/...n-and-history/


Rian was really not a good choice for this universe.

ohnson was asked by The Hollywood Reporter’s Natalie Heltzel:

“Whenever you are writing, let’s say you are creating your own universe, you said you don’t think about actors, you are starting something from scratch, how is that approach versus something where you have a pre-existing universe? If you are writing characters for Star Wars, you have this universe, you have characters that everybody knows, and then now you are doing something from scratch. Do you find your approach is different for that?”

ohnson would respond, “No, not at all. Because I don’t really think in terms of universes or in terms of creating worlds or whatever. That’s not that interesting to me.”

He continued, “The only thing that is interesting to me is story. And the story specific to, like whether you are writing a Star Wars film that’s part of a three movie trilogy or a quote unquote original thing like Knives Out, you are still telling a story that is new to the thing that you are doing that it has to work within the context of that movie.”


Johnson added, “So, to me the notion of what’s the entire galaxy or world that you are creating or something, I can’t imagine getting excited about creating that. To me what I’m excited about is creating a two hour long experience for an audience to have in the theater. And that means how they engage moment to moment with the story and the characters that are on the screen. And that doesn’t change in either one of those.”

Disney has been positively chatty in trying to fix things with Lore leaks over the last few days. Among the tid bits


Leaking excerpts from the Novel that Palpatine was a clone, which reactivates the old Dark Empire Comic right down to the Clones breaking down due to not being able to contain his power.


The last kiss between Ben and Rey wasn't romantic it was a thank you kiss


The Star Fleet of the Final Order was built and staffed by Exogol slaves.

[blankall]

^^^^^^

Having all of this stuff explained within the film in a Lord of the Rings style flashback (or even a monologue from Palpatine) would have made the movie a lot more enjoyable for me to watch. They could have cut 2 minutes of zany adventures down and fleshed out the story.

[djsFlames]

Endgame was far from a masterpiece. A lot of boring stretches. Really, it's the characters that carried the film, wanting to know their fates, more than the story itself, which was kind of drab.

Infinity was definitely more entertaining and well made.

But again, Marvel tops out at "fun" and tends to plateau there, so at least a high floor generally. But its ceiling is also limited, and hasn't brought us anything really groundbreaking since the very first set of films. They have a formula that puts people in the seats and keeps them from complaining generally. The sweet spot for any studio, but also a box for creativity.

The new Star Wars was aiming for the moon. Wanted to hit a home run on just about every front, and make every fan's dreams come true. Its aspirations were too ambitious, too soon. They jumped in before really considering every angle of what they were doing. Handing out future films to directors left and right, thinking they were on to something after TFA. Didn't take the time to flesh out the characters and plot cohesively and allow the vision to percolate long enough to get it right from that basic storytelling standpoint.

[Inglewood Jack]

if the Marvel formula is proven to make ALL the money, why would the studio stray from that template? they are so risk averse that they won't even touch anything that is not an already established universe/IP, but they thought Star Wars was the perfect platform to experiment with quirky directors, social agendas, and lore revamp?

I cannot imagine how an executive at Disney read the script for TLJ and thought to themselves "yes! this is the thing that is going to push us past the box office take for TFA and dependably line shareholder pockets!"