[Trade] Hall (50% ret), Speers to ARI for 1st, cond 3rd, Merkley, Schnarr, Bahl

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Spoiler!

Here's the real one.

[Rick M.]

If someone has already posted this, my bad. Pierre LeBrun said on TSN last night that Calgary was the runner up to Arizona in the Hall stakes. That’s why it took so long.

[Vinny01]

Friedman on the fan with some interesting comments.

1. flames deal did not include picks
2. The deal included a couple of roster players
3. Wouldn’t speculate on names but said on Edmonton radio it was not Bennett and Kylington (that is what they heard)
4. He can see Hall wanting to play here
5. Flames needed assurances they could sign him and the Devils wouldn’t let the Flames talk to Hall
6. Friedman thinks the Flames will be in on July 1 if Hall makes it to free agency.

[getbak]

Interesting. My top two guesses for who the players would have been were Bennett and Kylington.

[MrMike]

Possibly Eatbread, Jankowski, maybe even Hamonic because they know they could flip him at the deadline for more. I bet Bennett was involved even if they deny.

[442scotty]

Hall is just another in a long list of players that the Flames should have been able to acquire. Burakovsky, Duclair, Stone and I’m sure there are more because the price was too high in his mind? Treliving crapped the bed on Brouwer, Neal, and countless other hail mary passes instead. Not a real bad GM. Just not a great one.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

Hall is just another in a long list of players that the Flames should have been able to acquire. Burakovsky, Duclair, Stone and I’m sure there are more because the price was too high in his mind? Treliving crapped the bed on Brouwer, Neal, and countless other hail mary passes instead. Not a real bad GM. Just not a great one.

Pretty good GM considering the city he works in. Players don’t want to play in Calgary for the most part and I don’t think people give enough thought to that and assume Calgary should be in on all these high end free agents.

I could see a situation where the Flames try and trade for Hall’s rights around the draft and if they can sign him I see Johnny being shipped out in a heavy futures deal that would provide a huge upgrade to our system and potentially getting the Flames a very high end prospect.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

Hall is just another in a long list of players that the Flames should have been able to acquire. Burakovsky, Duclair, Stone and I’m sure there are more because the price was too high in his mind? Treliving crapped the bed on Brouwer, Neal, and countless other hail mary passes instead. Not a real bad GM. Just not a great one.

The Hall situation is not crapping the bed. Treliving tried to get a deal done, but the Devils chose an offer that was centered around picks. And probably more importantly, the Devils wouldn't let the Flames talk to Hall.

When I read all that, I think "good job, Treliving", not "you crapped the bed, Trelving". I don't want a GM that pays whatever it takes to get deals done - they only make sense for your team if they're done at the right price. And in this case, I wouldn't have wanted a rental, only a signed Hall. So I am very happy with how Treliving played it.

But to each their own, I guess.

[Vinny01]

The thing that has me intrigued was Friedman saying he thinks the Flames will be in on Hall if he makes it to July 1 and he thinks Hall would have interest playing here.

Flames are rarely a player in on big name free agents (Bouwmeester is the only one I can think of). That is not because they don’t have interest but usually players don’t have interest. If Hall wants to come here that would be huge for the team to add a player like that for cap space. Being able to flip Gaudreau for high end futures would help keep the window from closing sooner than later

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Pretty good GM considering the city he works in. Players don’t want to play in Calgary for the most part and I don’t think people give enough thought to that and assume Calgary should be in on all these high end free agents.



I could see a situation where the Flames try and trade for Hall’s rights around the draft and if they can sign him I see Johnny being shipped out in a heavy futures deal that would provide a huge upgrade to our system and potentially getting the Flames a very high end prospect.

I think the truth is somewhere closer to the middle. Yes, Treliving has the unenviable task of trying to secure pieces to build a contender in a bottom 5 market for desirability. But he also seems to place a huge amount of value on getting players with term. That either leads to him overpaying for mediocre but cost-controlled players (Hamonic) or losing out on players who could legitimately help, but didn’t have term attached.

At this point I’m fine with missing out on players like Hall and Stone, because this core has shown their true colours and they’re not a Hall or Stone away from contention, so you might as well keep as many picks and prospects as you can.

Ultimately he’s an average GM who has built an average roster. Some people are fine with that, and I’m starting to think that after 30 years of perpetual mediocrity, maybe we should consider whether average is the best this franchise is capable of producing. When you’ve been crap for so long, average starts to look pretty good.

[1qqaaz]

I would say Bouwmeester and Wideman were the largest signings.
But wasn't Bouwmeester an RFA when the Flames acquired him?
Wideman was an all-star the year before the Flames signed him. I think the Flames traded a 5th round pick to Washington for his rights.

So when the Flames do sign bigger names, then tend to acquire negotiating rights first.
However, I don't believe the Coyotes would ever trade negotiating rights to Calgary, since they're in the same division.

[Strange Brew]

If Treliving's tenure ended today, is anyone realistically arguing that his record as GM is anything other than average?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

If Treliving's tenure ended today, is anyone realistically arguing that his record as GM is anything other than average?

Compared to past Flames GM’s I would say it is above average.

[Eric Vail]

Treliving has been the GM since April 2014. The first draft is reported to not be his. From 2015 and on is.

In 2015, he didn't have a first rounder and 5 picks in total. He landed Rasmus Andersson, Oliver Kylington, and Andrew Mangiapane.

In 2016, he had nine picks and landed Tkachuk, Dube, and Fox with Phillips trending in the right direction. There is still hope for Parsons .

In 2017, which it is pretty early to evaluate, he has landed Valimacki.

Great GMs are made on the draft - not on acquiring players on expiring contracts, at the trade deadline or before. There are far more mistakes made in those situations than winning situations.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I think the truth is somewhere closer to the middle. Yes, Treliving has the unenviable task of trying to secure pieces to build a contender in a bottom 5 market for desirability. But he also seems to place a huge amount of value on getting players with term. That either leads to him overpaying for mediocre but cost-controlled players (Hamonic) or losing out on players who could legitimately help, but didn’t have term attached.

At this point I’m fine with missing out on players like Hall and Stone, because this core has shown their true colours and they’re not a Hall or Stone away from contention, so you might as well keep as many picks and prospects as you can.

Ultimately he’s an average GM who has built an average roster. Some people are fine with that, and I’m starting to think that after 30 years of perpetual mediocrity, maybe we should consider whether average is the best this franchise is capable of producing. When you’ve been crap for so long, average starts to look pretty good.

It's easy to get caught in the 30 year narrative, but the only part that is relevant to BT is the current team.
I think he built a good core that has the talent to win - but I agree we are now starting to see that perhaps they don't have the right make-up.
So the key is what BT does now.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It's easy to get caught in the 30 year narrative, but the only part that is relevant to BT is the current team.

I think he built a good core that has the talent to win - but I agree we are now starting to see that perhaps they don't have the right make-up.

So the key is what BT does now.

I’m curious to know what you think is off and what should be done to address it.

I simply don’t see any way of resolving the pressing issues this team has down the middle without tearing it all down and making a few really high selections over the next 5 years. But that seems to be an unpopular opinion around here.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It's easy to get caught in the 30 year narrative, but the only part that is relevant to BT is the current team.
I think he built a good core that has the talent to win - but I agree we are now starting to see that perhaps they don't have the right make-up.
So the key is what BT does now.

I think it is a good sign that the Flames' alleged offer for Hall did not include draft picks. He (BT) must realize they need more of those, not less. I am curious to see what he does. I think the team has crested, with Backlund and Giordano heading down and the players trending up not making up for that, combined with fairly key players heading out the door. BT has tried valiantly to keep the "window" open but every single pass in 2019 fell incomplete. Just a horrible year. I think it is all over for this incarnation of the Flames in terms of being a serious contender, barring something completely unforeseen occurring. Really going to be an interesting trade deadline and off-season...

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The thing that has me intrigued was Friedman saying he thinks the Flames will be in on Hall if he makes it to July 1 and he thinks Hall would have interest playing here.

Flames are rarely a player in on big name free agents (Bouwmeester is the only one I can think of). That is not because they don’t have interest but usually players don’t have interest. If Hall wants to come here that would be huge for the team to add a player like that for cap space. Being able to flip Gaudreau for high end futures would help keep the window from closing sooner than later

Agreed, Hall is a consideration for July 1st and not December 19th. You have to be careful about trading Gaudreau though, as an example last nights game had 19 skaters in it, 18 Habs and one Flame by the name of Johnny Gaudreau. These are tough franchise altering decisions, JG has not missed many games due to injury, Hall has.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It's easy to get caught in the 30 year narrative, but the only part that is relevant to BT is the current team.
I think he built a good core that has the talent to win - but I agree we are now starting to see that perhaps they don't have the right make-up.
So the key is what BT does now.

Agreed. I think the current roster is the most talented in more than a decade, and most of it is on the right side of 27. But the core needs a remodelling, and there's not much help coming in the system. This will be a huge off-season for Treliving.

I don't have a problem with a sign Hall and trade Gaudreau scenario. Both players have holes in their game and elite skill, but moving Gaudreau would net an influx of presumably young talent (which they'd need with the higher cap hit of a signed Hall).

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I’m curious to know what you think is off and what should be done to address it.

I simply don’t see any way of resolving the pressing issues this team has down the middle without tearing it all down and making a few really high selections over the next 5 years. But that seems to be an unpopular opinion around here.

I don't think some of the so-called best players are committed to doing what they need to on and off the ice to win. It's easy to hate to lose, it's hard to commit to winning. I think Johnny isn't committed to winning. And I think teams have figured out how to play him and he hasn't shown an ability to adjust.
And I view him as the organization's most valuable trade chip to address the roster gaps. But it has to happen this summer to capitalize.
I like the D including the youth of it. And I think there's a lot of other good pieces up front, and specifically Tkachuk.
But i would be moving Johnny.