[Rumour] UPD: Flames are done for the day. Zucker deal does not go through

[RedHawk12]

I kind of hope it becomes one of those stories down the road where someone says "back in 2019 when we had that amazing playoff run where Neal/Frolik scored that huge goal for us in game 7...the thing is, we almost traded him to the Wild at the deadline, but the stupid fax machine jammed up and the league wouldn't let us re-submit..."

"Tre was white hot..."

I can imagine Conroy telling the story on Sportsnet TradeCenter 10 years from now haha.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Pure speculation on your part. And pretty bizarre speculation if you ask me, considering A) they were pursuing Stone (I mean, why bother if you don't think you can afford him), and B) by all accounts, the stumbling block was Valimaki.

Are you sure you’re not mixing up rental price and long term signature?

The stumbling block may have been Valimaki as the price for a rental, you’re right.

However, I imagine if they could have signed Stone long term as part of the trade, then Valimaki and a 2nd would have been an acceptable price to pay...but they couldn’t afford long term at 9.5 because of the cap issues next year.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The cost to sign mark stone is the equivalent of what the flames are paying Mike stone and Neal this year.

All of those tremendous contracts at the top of the lineup completely negated.

Stone is gone in a year and not much of an impediment IMO. I do think he can be moved in the summer if really needed (maybe eat salary). It is Neal and the Brouwer buyout that really is locking up cap money for the next few years.

It's a shame about Stone's injury which caused Treliving to burn a pick yesterday.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

It's easy to be disappointed when a team doesn't do a lot on Trade Deadline day, but my first hunch is that these big time acquisitions usually don't have that huge impact. Last year Paul Statsny did help the Jets, but they didn't even make the cup finals. Washington didn't make any real major deals...they finally broke through. So do these impact Deadline deals really help teams achieve that extra success? I tend to think that Draft trading although more risky can yield more value as you can find those longer term pieces for Deadline rental prices.

I think back to the 05-06 Flames who were the last 100 point team that the Flames had. They really didn't do anything at the deadline. They added David Hale, Cale Hulse (which was worth it just for the poster I Hate Hulse's reaction), Jaimie Lundmark, Mike Leclerc, and Brian Boucher in deals leading up to deadline but didn't really part with any notable assets in that tinkering. In fact they dealt Steve Reinprecht in that series of moves who was probably the best NHL player that season. Ultimately that team died off in the first round of the playoffs, and likely did need to be bolstered. That group was never that good ever again as the game changed.

Than you have the 08-09 Flames who after getting embarassed in San Jose made a committment to play differently for awhile and were like this current team where they went on a real run and were a top team in the league. That team did push in the trade chips at the deadline to acquire Jokinen, and Leopold. But injuries had caused Giordano to go down, than eventually took out Regehr, and Phaneuf was at the beginning of his fall from grace. Result the team finished terrible, were out assets and that group never saw the playoffs again.

This current group is a bit different. It's essentially playoff appearance 3 in 5 years and should be the first home playoff team since 06, and only the 2nd time since the end of the 1995 season that this has been the case. It would appear to be an up and coming type of team that has finally establishing themselves as being more than a fringe playoff team. But it does have some cap dancing to do next year, but survive that they should be in good shape in the next two years. Did they miss an opportunity to add for today when they may never have this chance again? I hope not. I think this Group will still be in the hunt in coming seasons.

That 2005 season could be very analogous.

Lost a 1st round heartbreaker when they couldn't score enough goals. They were the class of the league defensively, but didn't have enough finish up front.

The Flames and Ducks both scored 17 goals in the series. Iggy scored 8 points in 7 games, 5 goals!, but it wasn't enough. Yelle, McCarty, Amonte and Kobasew couldn't get it done.

That year the ducks added Friesen and Sean O'Donnell at the deadline. They combined for 3 goals in the series.

The Flames can definitely score goals this year, they are probably as close to the opposite team formulation as that 06 group. The question for me is, can they score ENOUGH goals. Kipper lost that series with a .923 sv%. Would an .896 sv% be enough to sink this roster in the first round? Scary thought.

[GioforPM]

I wonder if the Flames were asked to retain salary on Neal. That sounds reasonable at first but it ends up making Zucker's effective salary higher. If you retain $2M on Neal it's like paying Zucker $7.5.

[Matty81]

I'd be pretty shocked if anybody in the league was willing to take on Neal. I like him and hope he picks it up, but the term, his age and his decline, even retained it seems like a tough sell. If he's not scoring he can't play in your top 6 and his defensive game isn't really good enough to kill penalties or play on checking lines. I think he could definitely chip in with a timely goal or two on a long playoff run if they flames are so lucky but I'm expecting that contract will eventually be bought out once they take a couple more years of punishment on it and the hit isn't too bad.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Stone is gone in a year and not much of an impediment IMO. I do think he can be moved in the summer if really needed (maybe eat salary). It is Neal and the Brouwer buyout that really is locking up cap money for the next few years.

It's a shame about Stone's injury which caused Treliving to burn a pick yesterday.

Paying stone 3.5 to sit on the bench is like adding another million dollars to each top line player's salary.

Is monahan such a steal at 7.25?

Every dollar matters in icing a competitive roster.

I'm just saying, there was room to fit Mark Stone into the team's salary structure due to the bargain deals their best players on, that's the advantage of having bargain deals.

There's no room to fit Mark Stone on to the roster when you're paying his equivalent re-signing salary to 2 guys that maybe rightfully shouldn't be suiting up for your team at all.

The senators took back just 650k in future salary obligations over 4 different deadline deal trades.

Salary was absolutely 100% a factor in getting a deal done with Ottawa. Which is why they ended up swinging 3 deals with 2 teams with 15+ million in cap space.

Sure, no one thought Neal would fall off the cliff like this, but when you spill milk on the floor you don't just stare it, you clean it up.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

That 2005 season could be very analogous.

Lost a 1st round heartbreaker when they couldn't score enough goals. They were the class of the league defensively, but didn't have enough finish up front.

The Flames and Ducks both scored 17 goals in the series. Iggy scored 8 points in 7 games, 5 goals!, but it wasn't enough. Yelle, McCarty, Amonte and Kobasew couldn't get it done.

That year the ducks added Friesen and Sean O'Donnell at the deadline. They combined for 3 goals in the series.

The Flames can definitely score goals this year, they are probably as close to the opposite team formulation as that 06 group. The question for me is, can they score ENOUGH goals. Kipper lost that series with a .923 sv%. Would an .896 sv% be enough to sink this roster in the first round? Scary thought.

If you get an .896 save percentage you aren't winning any playoff series no matter who you added at the trade deadline.

Also very different circumstances on the team's you are comparing.

That Flames team scored the third fewest goals in the NHL with 218 goals.

This years Flames scored 225 goals so far - third most in the NHL.

The offensive ability of both teams is not at all comparable.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Guys it's Dreger.

He said it could be Minnesota, it could be internally and it could be the league.

That's like me saying it could be heads or it could be tails or the coin could roll away and we can't find it.

Typical Dreklund #OUTSIDER

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

It's possible a knights fan will say this about stone's contract in 5 years.

What a problem to have in 5 years.

Maybe.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

If you get an .896 save percentage you aren't winning any playoff series no matter who you added at the trade deadline.

Also very different circumstances on the team's you are comparing.

That Flames team scored the third fewest goals in the NHL with 218 goals.

This years Flames scored 225 goals so far - third most in the NHL.

The offensive ability of both teams is not at all comparable.

No ####, I called them the direct opposite of each other.

Their goaltending is the direct opposite as well.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Maybe we were going to swap Smith for Dubnyk in the deal

Maybe the deal included Stall also.

Minny opts out at last second when Stall tells them he will re-sign with them for under $4million if they don't trade him.

NO NONE OF THIS HAPPENED!!

[Jiri Hrdina]

To me this deal had to involve more than Neal or Frolik. I just don't see it based on what we know.

We know that the price was significant based on the tweet from Boomer
"Return was significantly more than that" than Frolik+1st

So does that mean something on top of Frolik or that it was something different altogether.
To me that means one of Kylington, Dube or something like that was in there

But it also seems that Tre was upset that it didn't go through, meaning he was happy with the deal. And that's not a surprise. Zucker is a good player with term left.

But I don't think we should be regretting the missed chance to trade Neal or Frolik +1st for Zucker. All of this tells me something else of REAL value was in there.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Paying stone 3.5 to sit on the bench is like adding another million dollars to each top line player's salary.

Is monahan such a steal at 7.25?

Every dollar matters in icing a competitive roster.

I'm just saying, there was room to fit Mark Stone into the team's salary structure due to the bargain deals their best players on, that's the advantage of having bargain deals.

There's no room to fit Mark Stone on to the roster when you're paying his equivalent re-signing salary to 2 guys that maybe rightfully shouldn't be suiting up for your team at all.

The senators took back just 650k in future salary obligations over 4 different deadline deal trades.

Salary was absolutely 100% a factor in getting a deal done with Ottawa. Which is why they ended up swinging 3 deals with 2 teams with 15+ million in cap space.

Sure, no one thought Neal would fall off the cliff like this, but when you spill milk on the floor you don't just stare it, you clean it up.

You act as if Stone's contract was some huge mistake. Stone was signed before Valimaki was drafted, and before Kylington/Andersson were known quantities. He was signed before Hanifin was acquired. Before Hamonic was acquired (though Treliving had that one in mind). At the time Stone was the only guy aside from Gio who seemed like he could play with Brodie. It looked like he'd be a number 4/5 guy. And he has played fairly well since being signed.

The team is fortunate that all of their top D prospects have panned out so far. The team was prudent in thinking at least one or two wouldn't.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

If you get an .896 save percentage you aren't winning any playoff series no matter who you added at the trade deadline.

Also very different circumstances on the team's you are comparing.

That Flames team scored the third fewest goals in the NHL with 218 goals.

This years Flames scored 225 goals so far - third most in the NHL.

The offensive ability of both teams is not at all comparable.

Beyond that, the disparity between scoring and goals-allowed on that 2006 playoff team is nothing like what we see this year:

The 2006 Flames ranked 27th in goals (2.63/GP) and first in goals allowed (2.35/GP), and had a differential of +23.

The 2019 Flames rank second in goals (3.36/GP) and eighth in goals allowed (2.84/GP), and are on pace to finish with a differential of +65.

No, the 2019 Flames are NOT "probably as close to the opposite team formulation as that 06 group."

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

No ####, I called them the direct opposite of each other.

Their goaltending is the direct opposite as well.

No, it is not. The 2006 Flames ranked first in GAA, but only 27th in scoring.

The 2019 Flames rank second in scoring, and also eighth in GAA.

That is not even close to being "directly opposite."

[Nelson]

LeBrun, Dreger and Russo have all reported there was a deal to acquire Zucker, which looked done.

It would’ve had to include salary going out because of Zucker’s cap hit.

Fenton has made a lot of bad deals recently.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

To me this deal had to involve more than Neal or Frolik. I just don't see it based on what we know.

We know that the price was significant based on the tweet from Boomer
"Return was significantly more than that" than Frolik+1st

So does that mean something on top of Frolik or that it was something different altogether.
To me that means one of Kylington, Dube or something like that was in there

But it also seems that Tre was upset that it didn't go through, meaning he was happy with the deal. And that's not a surprise. Zucker is a good player with term left.

But I don't think we should be regretting the missed chance to trade Neal or Frolik +1st for Zucker. All of this tells me something else of REAL value was in there.

IMO i don't think Neal or Frolik were involved at all. Nobody is taking Neal right now. Frolik is the kind of jack of all trades player you need for playoff hockey. Also he seems to fit with Backlund the best.


Also if Tre was upset deal didn't go through, i trust that this deal would have been good for the flames ,no matter who was involved.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

IMO i don't think Neal or Frolik were involved at all. Nobody is taking Neal right now. Frolik is the kind of jack of all trades player you need for playoff hockey. Also he seems to fit with Backlund the best.


Also if Tre was upset deal didn't go through i trust that this deal would have been good for the flames no matter who was involved.

I can't think of a scenario where the flames were adding 5 million with term without sending at least that much money back.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The Flames can definitely score goals this year, they are probably as close to the opposite team formulation as that 06 group. The question for me is, can they score ENOUGH goals. Kipper lost that series with a .923 sv%. Would an .896 sv% be enough to sink this roster in the first round? Scary thought.

That's why you don't overpay this year in my mind though.

The goaltending isn't stabilized enough to expend more assets than you were comfortable yielding to fortify an area that's already a strength.