Who should Treliving target as a potential replacement for Mike Smith? - Page 23 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

TheIronMaiden · 11-08-2018, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Even if they are willing to pay a high price, which goalie do you think is available that would command such a price?

Availability is the key question. No goalie gets moved who doesn't have question marks. Whether its age, experience, contract, or inconsistency the trade and UFA trade goalie market will never be a sure thing. Right now Flames brass has to pick their poison.

bax · 11-08-2018, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

We are supposed to believe that the super aggressive and trade happy GM swung and missed 5 or 6 times on good, young goalies, but is somehow able to nail big trades for forwards and defenders with regularity? I don't buy that for a second.

For me, the body of work indicates a lack of value towards the position on his part. This equates to a possible attitude of why pay the higher price for more touted guys when we can get Hiller, Elliott, Smith for pennies on the dollar. You get what you pay for and now his team is going to be severely handcuffed by incompetent net minding again except he finally has the right mix upfront to have a top seeded team with even adequate net minding.

How he has not learned from this by now is beyond me and bordering on insanity if he does not address this within the next number of games. You simply have to step up and pay a high price at this point to upgrade or it will be a pretty strong signal to the team that you aren't giving them what they need to win.

Does it really though?

Talbot = had already traded picks for Hamilton. Which was a bigger need considering the question marks surrounding Talbot.

Murray = Flames were in the discussion before he broke out in the playoffs

Andersen = Flames had a good offer in place, but Anaheim preferred to trade out of division

Bishop = Rumor has it he nixed a trade to Calgary after the first attempt fell through (rumor was TB wanted our 6th overall (Tkachuk))

Raanta = As stated earlier price was very high. Arizona traded the 7th overall pick and we just couldn't match that.

Jones = I believe was traded at the same draft we picked Tkachuk? End of the day we didn't have a first round pick to offer. Tkachuk was too valuable and that was the right call.

If anything- be confident that the Flames seem to identify the right guys to go after. The timing just never worked out on these deals unfortunately.

My prediction is we ride this season out hoping for A) Smith to find his game or B) Rittich to break out as a starter. In the offseason I bet we take a hard look at Lehner, Varlamov, and Bobrovsky.

TheIronMaiden · 11-08-2018, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red

A lot easier to trade for forwards and D. Hundreds of them there. There are only 31 starting goalies in the NHL.

Most days I'm not convinced that 31 dependable goalies are in the league.

Firebot · 11-08-2018, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

We are supposed to believe that the super aggressive and trade happy GM swung and missed 5 or 6 times on good, young goalies, but is somehow able to nail big trades for forwards and defenders with regularity? I don't buy that for a second.

For me, the body of work indicates a lack of value towards the position on his part. This equates to a possible attitude of why pay the higher price for more touted guys when we can get Hiller, Elliott, Smith for pennies on the dollar. You get what you pay for and now his team is going to be severely handcuffed by incompetent net minding again except he finally has the right mix upfront to have a top seeded team with even adequate net minding.

How he has not learned from this by now is beyond me and bordering on insanity if he does not address this within the next number of games. You simply have to step up and pay a high price at this point to upgrade or it will be a pretty strong signal to the team that you aren't giving them what they need to win. Given the historical fragility of this group, I certainly wouldn't want to go too far down that road this season.

Did you not pay attention to the Bishop situation? Treliving had a deal for Bishop. Ownership gave Ken King of all people the veto for any decision, and he was on a fricking plane.

We would have had Bishop for 2 years. Who knows what other trades fell through because of this meddling garbage.

Larry Fisher

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According to source, Brad Treliving needed Ken King's approval on all trades/transactions. King in air transit. Steve Yzerman couldn't wait.

Treliving went with leftovers. Had Treliving had his way, Bishop would be a Flame right now. Treliving just traded Hamilton away. He's clearly not afraid to make major moves, and it also doesn't mean he should sell the farm in desperation.

dissentowner · 11-08-2018, 01:26 PM

Give Parsons two years and you will have your #1 goalie providing the Flames give him the starts he will need in Stockton to develop.

Erick Estrada · 11-08-2018, 01:26 PM

I don't think there's a quick fix that Treliving will be able to address this mid-season. I think if you look at a lot of posts in the preseason plenty of us were worried about how Smith would hold up and that the team would need at least average goaltending to take a step forward. Now we know they probably aren't going to receive league average goaltending (from Smith at least) we just have to hope they can score enough goals to make the playoffs and hope that in the playoffs Rittich can have a career run or Smith comes up with one last run of good hockey. That said there's absolutely no way this team wins a cup and little chance they even win a playoff series with this goaltending and if they make the playoffs we should probably be satisfied. Hopefully next season the GM does a better job providing his coach with something to work with between the pipes as goaltending is a black mark on his resume.

Toonage · 11-08-2018, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebot

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According to source, Brad Treliving needed Ken King's approval on all trades/transactions. King in air transit. Steve Yzerman couldn't wait.

And this lead to the most contentious point in Treliving's own contract negotiation. The right to make moves without that approval. Which he got.

dissentowner · 11-08-2018, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebot

Did you not pay attention to the Bishop situation? Treliving had a deal for Bishop. Ownership gave Ken King of all people the veto for any decision, and he was on a fricking plane.

We would have had Bishop for 2 years. Who knows what other trades fell through because of this meddling garbage.

Larry Fisher

@LarryFisher_KDC
Follow Follow @LarryFisher_KDC
More
According to source, Brad Treliving needed Ken King's approval on all trades/transactions. King in air transit. Steve Yzerman couldn't wait.

Treliving went with leftovers. Had Treliving had his way, Bishop would be a Flame right now. Treliving just traded Hamilton away. He's clearly not afraid to make major moves, and it also doesn't mean he should sell the farm in desperation.

Which is ridiculous because Ken King is a spokesman, not a hockey guy. What exactly qualifies KK to make executive hockey decisions over the GM? This organization should have booted him a long time ago.

SuperMatt18 · 11-08-2018, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bax

Jones = I believe was traded at the same draft we picked Tkachuk? End of the day we didn't have a first round pick to offer. Tkachuk was too valuable and that was the right call.

Jones was traded (twice) the same off-season as the Hamilton deal but San Jose gave up a pick the following year (2016 - Tkachuk draft).

So Flames had already given up a first and two seconds that offseason to get Hamilton, and really goaltending wasn't as big an issue at that moment in time. They were a playoff team that had okay goaltending the year before (Hiller: .918, Ramo: .912) and a promising prospect in Ortio/Gillies.

At the time Jones still was a big question mark coming off a .906 save percentage that year, and even now he still isn't what I'd call an elite goaltender.

Under any circumstance I'm happy we didn't trade the 2016 pick that became Tkachuk.

In reality the Goaltending issue didn't really become a major topic until after the 15/16 season. And that was when the Flames acquired Elliott and were also involved in the Andersen and Bishop rumours. Then after that season they acquired Smith, after the Raanta, Fleury, and Bishop (again) deals didn't happen.

Toonage · 11-08-2018, 01:31 PM

Also recall that the Kings didn't want Jones in the division and moved him to Boston first.

dissentowner · 11-08-2018, 01:31 PM

Howard has a. 917 save percentage on a crappy Wings team and he is a rental. Might as well give him an audition if we can acquire him on the cheap, he can't possibly be worse than Smith.

The Boy Wonder · 11-08-2018, 01:33 PM

I honestly don't see there being a solution in the short term. and if that is truly the case then it's the goalie coach who needs to go. if for no other reason than to shake things up and see if someone else can help smith. Clearly sigalet can't get him to play better, and you can't trade him for anyone significant so you have one clear option...

GioforPM · 11-08-2018, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Howard has a. 917 save percentage on a crappy Wings team and he is a rental. Might as well give him an audition if we can acquire him on the cheap, he can't possibly be worse than Smith.

We run into a cap situation, but I'd be good with it. We'd probably have to send something to Detroit to take the Smith contract. Not a first.

TheIronMaiden · 11-08-2018, 01:34 PM

Any time I think of a possible goalie I am stuck wonder why any team would want to trade them. In the back ups that might be starters one day pile, Lhener, Dell and Kuemper are the only ones who might be remotely available. But why would the Islanders, Sharks, or Coyotes even consider trading them.

Firebot · 11-08-2018, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Any time I think of a possible goalie I am stuck wonder why any team would want to trade them. In the back ups that might be starters one day pile, Lhener, Dell and Kuemper are the only ones who might be remotely available. But why would the Islanders, Sharks, or Coyotes even consider trading them.

And 2 of them are Division rivals too.

Hot_Flatus · 11-08-2018, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebot

Did you not pay attention to the Bishop situation? Treliving had a deal for Bishop. Ownership gave Ken King of all people the veto for any decision, and he was on a fricking plane.

We would have had Bishop for 2 years. Who knows what other trades fell through because of this meddling garbage.

Larry Fisher

@LarryFisher_KDC
Follow Follow @LarryFisher_KDC
More
According to source, Brad Treliving needed Ken King's approval on all trades/transactions. King in air transit. Steve Yzerman couldn't wait.

Treliving went with leftovers. Had Treliving had his way, Bishop would be a Flame right now. Treliving just traded Hamilton away. He's clearly not afraid to make major moves, and it also doesn't mean he should sell the farm in desperation.

Say what you want about the transactions and rumors but somehow this doesn't seem hold up deals for players who are not goalies? It doesn't smell right to blame this all on the organization and I'm definitely not a fan of the way they've done business (allegedly).

The Flames have quietly burned through a good chunk of the core groups prime without much to show for it. I really don't think it would be wise to wait on Smith to turn it around or go in on another band aid solution when we clearly finally have a forward and defensive group capable of big things.

theslymonkey · 11-08-2018, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Give Parsons two years and you will have your #1 goalie providing the Flames give him the starts he will need in Stockton to develop.

I hope you're right, but I'm not holding my breath.

Parsons had great numbers in London, but that team is always stacked so the numbers in the A are going to be the telling story. If you follow Murray's numbers from the O to the A, he didn't really skip a beat. So far Parsons has been awful with the Heat, be it on three starts, but they are still terrible stats.

TheIronMaiden · 11-08-2018, 01:48 PM

In terms of players who are realistically in the trade market. Schneider and maybe Bernier are some of the only options available.

I just don't see Rask of Halak being available out of Boston.

Toonage · 11-08-2018, 01:49 PM

Bernier isn't available. He's Detroit's stop gap now. Signed just this past summer to a 3yr $3M deal.

Iggy3x · 11-08-2018, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Howard has a. 917 save percentage on a crappy Wings team and he is a rental. Might as well give him an audition if we can acquire him on the cheap, he can't possibly be worse than Smith.

I like this idea. Time that we get paid for helping the Wings win their cup with Vernon. Who is the current Steve Chaisson? Brodie?