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Originally Posted by zamler
Smith should have been replaced for the 3rd, it is very difficult for a backup to go in stone cold at moments notice. Especially one that hardly plays at all. Maybe it would not have worked but it sure as heck had a better chance then leaving Smith is, it was blatantly obvious he was not right after the 3rd goal.
Anyone defending Gulutzan for not pulling Smith until it was way too late are massive apologists.
So you are saying Smith should have been pulled...when Calgary had the lead?
Is there another example of that happening anywhere in the league on any team?
Nothing complicated at all, about the easiest and simple call Gulutzan should have made. You don't think the results of the game back that up?
I think a coach rarely pulls his MVP and #1 goalie entering the third when he has a lead. Frankly it would have probably pissed Smith off.
You can easily look back and see "SEE THEY LOST" to try and argue they should have done that but I don't see that as a fair way to look at it - as we don't know what the outcome would have been.
I look at it from the point of view on whether or not there were rationale reasons to keep him in there leading 4-3. And I think there were.
You can disagree. Doesn't make you anything more than someone with a different opinion. Doesn't make you an apologist, homer, hyperbolic, over-reacting, or anything. Just means you have a different view.
I don't have a problem with that.
You do seem to have a problem though with someone who doesn't share your opinion.
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You do seem to have a problem though with someone who doesn't share your opinion.
I'm very frustrated at people excusing GG's actions and especially lack of that are costing us games. IMO of course. As for pulling Smith to start the 3rd, yes it would be a rare thing but I honestly think it was the right thing to do. I don't care if he's the #1 goalie and the teams best player. If he's hurting the team you pull him. I'm sure Smith 100% understands that.
More than anything the issue seems to be that on any given night (maybe the Tampa game in Tampa aside) the flames have had only 0,1 or 2 out of three key positions playing up to a solid level.
They can't seem to get offence, defence and goaltending all clicking on the same night.
On their worst nights it's been smith bailing them out when the other two groups are by and large garbage.
On their best nights (maybe 3 or 4 games this year) they've had all three going pretty well
I don't know if this imbalance is because of game planning or systems and against certain opponents it works better or what but I'm really worried that flames really fall off if smith goes on a cold streak and they don't get the 3/3 groups going at the same time.
Not to even dive into PP and PK that would be an additional point in this
The Flames are up 4-3 after two and GG was supposed to pull his number 1 goalie?
And because he didn't the loss is his fault?
What a terrible take.
I would question your own take on the situation if I was you.
You certainly pull your goalie when 3 of 4 goals against him have been horrendous, 1 minute into the third period with an eggshell fragile team on the verge of their 6th straight epic collapse. What difference does it make if it's your number 1 or number 4 goalie? Doing nothing whatsoever is most definitely the coaches fault, he is there to make decisions like this.
Gulutzan's presence behind the bench last night was that of someone watching a bunch of kids electrocute themselves in a pool only to after put his hands in the air and claim "I didn't do anything...."
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Last edited by Hot_Flatus; 02-02-2018 at 12:13 PM.
I'm very frustrated at people excusing GG's actions and especially lack of that are costing us games. IMO of course. As for pulling Smith to start the 3rd, yes it would be a rare thing but I honestly think it was the right thing to do. I don't care if he's the #1 goalie and the teams best player. If he's hurting the team you pull him. I'm sure Smith 100% understands that.
No chance at 4-3 TBH - didn't even cross my mind.
4-4 is when he should have looked at it and at least called a timeout, 100% he should have pulled him at 5-4, and then at 6-4 it was already too late IMO.
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You certainly pull your bloody goalie when 3 of 4 goals against him have been horrendous, 1 minute into the third period and you have an eggshell fragile team on the verge of their 6th straight collapse. Doing nothing whatsoever is most definitely the coaches fault....unless you want to pin it on the whipping boy Troy Brouwer instead? If anyone has a terrible take here, it's you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamler
I'm very frustrated at people excusing GG's actions and especially lack of that are costing us games. IMO of course. As for pulling Smith to start the 3rd, yes it would be a rare thing but I honestly think it was the right thing to do. I don't care if he's the #1 goalie and the teams best player. If he's hurting the team you pull him. I'm sure Smith 100% understands that.
Hang on a second here.
You are saying to pull Smith BEFORE the start of the third right? With a 4-3 lead?
If that's what you're saying it's a terrible take. Terrible.
If it's after the 4-4 goal, then yeah maybe. But not before the 3rd started.
Goalie looked bad to finish the 2nd, lets in a goal right at the start of the 3rd. If you pull him, thats exactly when you do it. He had 15 minutes to regroup.
You are saying to pull Smith BEFORE the start of the third right? With a 4-3 lead?
If that's what you're saying it's a terrible take. Terrible.
If it's after the 4-4 goal, then yeah maybe. But not before the 3rd started.
The game was tied 4-4 very early in the third, even after several brutal goals. This is when the coaches should have at least made an appearance at the game. This has been my stance all along.
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Last edited by Hot_Flatus; 02-02-2018 at 12:18 PM.
GG is a strategist. In a war, he'd be the guy planning everything up before the battle starts.
Unfortunately, a coach needs to be a general too. He needs to have a feel for the battle while it is going on. He needs to make adjustments to changes on the battlefield.
Too many times, you can sense momentum shifting in favour of the opposition and that is when a good coach will do things to stop that, either by calling a time out, or changing the goalie, or having a long animated discussion with the officials.
He's a very good hockey mind, IN BETWEEN games. I think this is evident from how the Flames generally look and play. The system is decent. However, he just doesn't have a sense of how to manage IN GAME.
There's more to being a good coach then the pre-game strategizing (analyzing the opponent) or preparation (which can also be argued as being weak). The in game adjustments just aren't there from this coaching staff.
GG is so stubborn, he just feels like his game plan should work and that no changes should be made. It's very Willie Desjardin-esque.
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Last edited by 868904; 02-02-2018 at 12:18 PM.
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GG is a strategist. In a war, he'd be the guy planning everything up before the battle starts.
Unfortunately, a coach needs to be a general too. He needs to have a feel for the battle while it is going on. He needs to make adjustments to changes on the battlefield.
Too many times, you can sense momentum shifting in favour of the opposition and that is when a good coach will do things to stop that, either by calling a time out, or changing the goalie, or having a long animated discussion with the officials.
He's a very good hockey mind, IN BETWEEN games. I think this is evident from how the Flames generally look and play. The system is decent. However, he just doesn't have a sense of how to manage IN GAME.
There's more to being a good coach then the pre-game strategizing (analyzing the opponent) or preparation (which can also be argued as being weak). The in game adjustments just aren't there from this coaching staff.
GG is so stubborn, he just feels like his game plan should work and that no changes should be made. It's very Willie Desjardin-esque.
Are you and Tinordi related by chance? Drive by posters that only seem interested in contributing when it's in regards to the players on this team you really dislike. Blaming Bennett for this loss on a night where the goaltending was frighteningly bad (Hartley thinks Smith was terrible last night and he was conditioned for poor goaltending) is most ridiculous thing I've read in weeks. Maybe stick to the drive by posts as it seems that's your niche.
I don't blame you for being so concerned about Bennett's development, I"m worried too.
I'm not sure how anyone can watch this team and come to the conclusion, yeah, GG is a great coach, lets just keep doing what were doing. Instead, lets blame the complete melt downs and inconsistent play on; the entire team, on bad luck, on goaltending, on the assistants, on the GM, on the fourth line, on the first line, on the third line, on the refs... at some point you have to stop and ask yourself, why is this team consistently inconsistent and why are they subject to so much bad luck? Bad luck, bad calls, bad play, inconsistent performance, is all a manifestation of bad preparation, unclear assignments, slow, lazy practice.
So you can watch the game and ask yourself, how do you blame GG for last nights debacle of major proportions, but you have to look deeper and ask yourself why so many professionals, who have been successful on so many levels are suddenly, all making the same stupid, bad, undisciplined plays? It's all about the direction they've been given, the preparation of the team, and the habits they've developed in practice. Which is well documented as being slow and casual, just like what we see in the games. Who's fault is that?
For me it isn't so much finding a direct correlation between systems practice and habits to the fragile on ice performances but what gets me up in arms more than anything is the passive acceptance and absence of adjustments coming from the bench when these things have happened or are in the process of happening. Being as fresh faced in this league as gulutzan still is, you think he'd be more open to revising his methods and his approach, especially in-game. It makes no sense to be this set in his ways when he isn't a vet coach with the track record of success in implementing his approach. Would be nice to see him learn on the fly and show an openness to new avenues of doing things when the old things aren't working. E.g. icing the same line after they surrender a back breaking goal, over icing certain players that are liabilities at key times, not shortening the bench, not calling time outs, leaving a goalie in until after the game is out of reach and so on. Systems are a whole other thing. If the team is fragile then step in and offer that pep talk, call that time out and pump them up.
Just want to see GG be more of a student to the profession and improve upon what isn't working rather than continue to beat the same drum as if there's nothing wrong with it and that the desired results arent coming solely due to a lack of fortune.
I feel that the inability or unwillingness to adjust or read the game or read his players has generally been a problem with Gulutzan, so I understand the blame being hurled at him for this loss. But I don't think this one is on him. It's not as easy as bravely pulling Smith when it's 4-3 or 4-4. He's been so solid in net for us that I fully understand why GG would leave him in there to see if he can play his way out of it. Heck, I probably would have too.
It makes sense to let smith try to play his way out of it. But the 5-4 goal should've been the moment. He looked over at the bench after it went invasivally expecting to be yanked...
More than anything the issue seems to be that on any given night (maybe the Tampa game in Tampa aside) the flames have had only 0,1 or 2 out of three key positions playing up to a solid level.
They can't seem to get offence, defence and goaltending all clicking on the same night.
On their worst nights it's been smith bailing them out when the other two groups are by and large garbage.
On their best nights (maybe 3 or 4 games this year) they've had all three going pretty well
I don't know if this imbalance is because of game planning or systems and against certain opponents it works better or what but I'm really worried that flames really fall off if smith goes on a cold streak and they don't get the 3/3 groups going at the same time.
Not to even dive into PP and PK that would be an additional point in this
You’ve made some good points here, boy, but get back to work
