Black Lives Matter get police float kicked out of Pride Parade

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It's a job, not an identity. Please stop pretending "police officer" is anything more than that. If you think it is, it shouldn't be.

Why on Earth do you think this? Tons of people take pride in their profession and consider it a big part of who they are as people. That's not controversial, is it? If someone asks me to tell them about myself, one of the first few things I'm likely to mention is what I do for a living.

I'd imagine that's especially so for first responders, and it's certainly the case that we want members of our police forces to be able to take pride in how they do their work. That just makes for better, more responsible and more diligent cops. So why wouldn't those police officers resent the denigration of what they've chosen to do with their lives as being some force for hatred and violence?

[CliffFletcher]

Yeah, you don't get to decide for other people what their identity is. For some people it might be ethnic. Or religious. For others it might be their vocation, sexual identity, or political beliefs. And then there are people who don't identify with any groups at all.

[PepsiFree]

lol, alright, identity politics are fine when it's cops but when it's black/gay/female related it's a huge world-crushing issue. Right to abortion? Less important than condemning identity politics. Cops in a parade? RESPECT THEIR IDENTITY!

That's just... hilarious I guess. I honestly would have thought Corsi and Cliff would passionately approve of cops having to shed their uniform identity to join a parade.

[nik-]

Are they not being excluded as a result of their identity?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by nik-

Are they not being excluded as a result of their identity?

Not at all, police officers are freely allowed and invited to participate personally in the parade.

The denial is based on the police organization having a float in the parade.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by nik-

Are they not being excluded as a result of their identity?

If you believe their uniform is their identity, absolutely.

A big difference (and good or bad, where the distinction comes in) is an "identity" you're born with, vs one you choose.

I don't get paid a good salary and benefits to be gay, nor was I given a choice.

The decision excludes the uniform, not the human being. It may not be a defence that is above question (plenty of debate in the gay community and black community) but that's the justification.

I'm willing to answer that criticism nik, I think it's valid. But the defence of identity from two people who have done nothing but slam any reference to identity is tough to take seriously.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

lol, alright, identity politics are fine when it's cops but when it's black/gay/female related it's a huge world-crushing issue. Right to abortion? Less important than condemning identity politics. Cops in a parade? RESPECT THEIR IDENTITY!

That's just... hilarious I guess. I honestly would have thought Corsi and Cliff would passionately approve of cops having to shed their uniform identity to join a parade.

I don't even know where to begin with this post. This is quite frankly one of the most intellectually dishonest things I've ever seen posted. And it fails utterly as a means to try and create the illusion of others being hypocrites to anyone who has followed this thread.

They are saying that for you to speak towards what others see as their identity and who they are is not acceptable and that some people, especially those in uniform, tend to see it as a part of their personal identity and who they are. That is all they have said. They have not argued that this identity deserves special treatment in anyway, or that you should not have similar expectations for these people based on this identity. Just that it is.

The mental gymnastics you've had to do to make the argument you just made is nothing short of gold-medal-at-the-Olympics level.

[MelBridgeman]

the police are now the marginalized

[CliffFletcher]

Keeping the police organization out of the parade has nothing to do with identity. It's a bad idea because it puts up a wall between the gay community and police after a period of reconciliation and normalization.

How people regard their profession in terms of their identity is a completely separate issue. Whether a gay white cop feels any or all of these things make up his identity is entirely up to him.

[northcrunk]

It's a dick move by a bunch of dick heads

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Keeping the police organization out of the parade has nothing to do with identity. It's a bad idea because it puts up a wall between the gay community and police after a period of reconciliation and normalization.

How people regard their profession in terms of their identity is a completely separate issue. Whether a gay white cop feels any or all of these things make up his identity is entirely up to him.

Cops aren't being excluded. Every single police officer is welcome to march.

[nik-]

Just their organization is being rejected. Welcoming for sure.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Cops aren't being excluded. Every single police officer is welcome to march.

And I hope they do.

But by saying the institution itself is not welcome could end up just as damaging in the long run.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The gay community seemed to accept police just fine until BLM flipped out and guilted them into excluding an organization that was recently welcome.

From the reaction from people I know in the gay community, it sounds like you're wrong. Regardless, who cares if they were welcome before? Which part of BLM presenting the argument that "Hey, we don't feel comfortable marching with an organization that still persecutes us," and Pride went "Oh ####, we didn't think about that because they're not really doing that to us anymore," is guilting them to you? I see it as them presenting a perspective that maybe some of the organizers hadn't considered previously.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

This is all awful. But because there are ####ty people who are police, you don't want the main institution saying that they stand against these ####ty people and their actions and poisonous ideas? I sincerely hope that all ####ty police officers get arrested and charged. I also think things like police in uniform and representing their institution marching in lock step at pride parades and Prime Ministers marching in lock step at pride parades are very important things for getting rid of that sort of negative thinking down the line.

Hopefully the more bigots are shown their backwards thinking is not wanted within the ranks of things like the police or military or politics, the less likely they are to join them until their cancerous thinking is killed off. Maybe a bit optimistic, but dare to dream.

I think that as a rule inclusion is always much more effective tool for reaching understanding and improvement.

Except that whenever these things come up you don't see the police generally coming forward to do something about it. The institution as a whole has a history of protecting the dickheads in the force. We can't even get the institution to admit it has systemic issues with racism and bigotry.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by rubecube

From the reaction from people I know in the gay community, it sounds like you're wrong. Regardless, who cares if they were welcome before? Which part of BLM presenting the argument that "Hey, we don't feel comfortable marching with an organization that still persecutes us," and Pride went "Oh ####, we didn't think about that because they're not really doing that to us anymore," is guilting them to you? I see it as them presenting a perspective that maybe some of the organizers hadn't considered previously.

The word I'd use is extorted, not guilted.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by nik-

The word I'd use is extorted, not guilted.

We're now calling civil disobedience extortion?

[nik-]

I'm calling leveraging using disruption of an event with the implication that you'll do it again to get what you want extortion.

This instance, not the whole.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I don't even know where to begin with this post. This is quite frankly one of the most intellectually dishonest things I've ever seen posted. And it fails utterly as a means to try and create the illusion of others being hypocrites to anyone who has followed this thread.

They are saying that for you to speak towards what others see as their identity and who they are is not acceptable and that some people, especially those in uniform, tend to see it as a part of their personal identity and who they are. That is all they have said. They have not argued that this identity deserves special treatment in anyway, or that you should not have similar expectations for these people based on this identity. Just that it is.

The mental gymnastics you've had to do to make the argument you just made is nothing short of gold-medal-at-the-Olympics level.

This bugged me, but I wanted to respectfully explain my issue.

I felt it was hypocritical because of this:

None of these things engage identity politics. None of it requires that you be thought of first by virtue of your gender, race, sexual orientation or anything else. It requires that you be thought of as a person, whose life should be theirs to control free of interference to the greatest degree manageable, to make your own decisions rather than having someone else make them for you. That is the entire point; it doesn't matter if you're gay or black or a woman or East Indian or bisexual, the only group identity that matters is homo sapiens.

I think it's absolutely an instance of hypocrisy to state that "homo sapien" is the only identity that matters, while all others do not, and follow that by defending the existence and importance of an identity you just said did not matter:

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Why on Earth do you think this? Tons of people take pride in their profession and consider it a big part of who they are as people.

I'd imagine that's especially so for first responders, and it's certainly the case that we want members of our police forces to be able to take pride in how they do their work.

Is "pride in your work" and "identity" the same thing? Not to me. But this was the response to me saying that "police officer" wasn't an identity (and I didn't mention having pride in your work at all) so I'd bet they think they're linked. It really didn't take dishonestly or mental gymnastics, sorry it made you go off.

"I'm gay/a woman/black" - "No identities matter, only identify as human!"
"I'm a police officer!" - "That's an important identity! I identify as my job too!"

[V]

So are cops allowed to wear their uniform in the parade? Is it just the float that's banned? I don't see the big deal. Just sounds like people I don't identify with making decisions I don't understand. Whatever.