[Signing] Flames Sign Devin Setoguchi to one year 750k deal.

[Major Major]

So, as far as I can tell, the scenario people are worried about is Setogucchi is mediocre/poor, JG looks ready, the Flames stay remarkably healthy, and JG is sent down due to favoritism. What an incredibly unlikely scenario.

I'm definitely glad we have a management team that understands what realistically happens in a hockey season rather than what line combos will look like in August. When was the last time we took a look at line combos before camp and have them look even remotely similar in february? Never

bodies are good. Natural rw depth is good. Cheap young reclamation projects are good. Only being prepared for unrealistic outcomes is no good.

[saillias]

Lots of cognitive dissonance here. As recently as last year. Horak was sent down despite looking good in training camp because he didn't have to pass through waivers... Yet Jackman and Galiardi took up roster spots. I'll smoke what you guys are having that made you so forgetful.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by saillias

Lots of cognitive dissonance here. As recently as last year. Horak was sent down despite looking good in training camp because he didn't have to pass through waivers... Yet Jackman and Galiardi took up roster spots. I'll smoke what you guys are having that made you so forgetful.

I can't speak for everyone, but for me at least this is not an issue because of the reality of the situation. Simply put, veteran players are more likely to start with the team than rookies. It means that rookies will ordinarily need to do something amazing to supplant a veteran. It means that while they may appear to the casual or even the rabid fan that they are for all intents and purposes ready for the NHL, the team would prefer to let them continue their development at a lower level of play, even if it means holding onto a veteran who has maybe not impressed quite as much.

What it does not mean is that the Flames' rookies are missing opportunities. It does not mean that they are being withheld anything that is theirs by rights. It does not mean that the organisation is incompetent, or failing to prioritise the best interests of their prospects. The road to the NHL is by way of a marathon. Not a sprint. Rookies who don't make the team this year WILL GET THEIR OPPORTUNITIES.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Maybe it's just me, but I do not think that the Setoguchi signing is taking a roster spot away from our rookies. Imo, I think this will be a wake up call for David Jones, if he plays like he did last year then he will be sitting in the press box.

Besides, injuries always happen in a sport like hockey. I am not angered about this signing one bit, it's not like Seto is 33 years old and signed on a 4 year, 4m contract. He is 27 (still fairly young) where many players play great hockey in that age range. He also is signed for a freakin' cheap deal for only a year. It's a very, very low risk with a moderate - high reward. What's to not like about that?

I applaud Treliving for creating competition. That's something we didn't have at the beginning of the year, and maybe Sven wouldn't have felt as entitled to a roster spot as he should have.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by saillias

Lots of cognitive dissonance here. As recently as last year. Horak was sent down despite looking good in training camp because he didn't have to pass through waivers... Yet Jackman and Galiardi took up roster spots. I'll smoke what you guys are having that made you so forgetful.

You're upset about Horak not making the team?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by saillias

Lots of cognitive dissonance here. As recently as last year. Horak was sent down despite looking good in training camp because he didn't have to pass through waivers... Yet Jackman and Galiardi took up roster spots. I'll smoke what you guys are having that made you so forgetful.

Let's be honest with ourselves. Fan perceptions of a "player looking good" or not may not match what the GM/Coach feel.

We also don't see what happens in practice. Jobs are won and lost in practice.

[Imported_Aussie]

IMO this is a great low risk signing. Remember, any contract this low can be completely buried, so if he comes into camp and gets outplayed by rookies, he could end up the 14th forward/on waivers. A deal does not mean a guaranteed spot. But it never hurts to have insurance, and at 750K, he is not much above league minimum, to address a need in RW.
Anyone mad at the signing needs to step back and get perspective. However, if he is clearly outplayed in camp by rookies, and keeps his spot over them, then that will be a different story.

[Caged Great]

You also have to factor in ice time and the amount it will hurt/help the prospect moving forward.

Monahan, who has been labelled as an exception and not the norm, played mostly 2nd line minutes give or take throughout last year, and that was beneficial because there was enough ice time for him to develop, but not too much responsibility, so he could develop on the job.

What happens with players that aren't Monahan. If you're going to have a prospect only getting 7-8 minutes a night on the 4th line, wouldn't it be better for them to play in Glens Falls getting 15-20 minutes instead for developmental purpose, especially when they're still very early in their developmental cycle. Ice time is key for every player to develop, that's why they'll often send goalies to the ECHL to start even though it's an inferior league (Ortio last year).

We are not going to be anywhere near a playoff team this season. It sucks, but when Hudler is your best offensive talent, and he was 3rd or 4th or so 2 years ago when we still missed the playoffs, yeah.... it's not going to be good. So why rush players and possibly risk ruining them just because prospects. It's not like it's going to make a significant difference (playoffs vs no playoffs), so why not do what's in the prospects best interest developmentally and see what they have. I'm sure if Gaudreau got sent to the AHL and after 30 games had 50 points, he'd get recalled no matter who is in the NHL lineup. It's not just him either, I'm sure there'll be several candidates for late Nov/early Dec callups.

Being patient in a situation like this never hurt anyone. Rushing guys though has done wonders up north though.

[Flash Walken]

The Nigel Dawes of the 2014 Calgary Flames.

The tagline should read, "He can at least play a little bit."

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by saillias

Lots of cognitive dissonance here. As recently as last year. Horak was sent down despite looking good in training camp because he didn't have to pass through waivers... Yet Jackman and Galiardi took up roster spots. I'll smoke what you guys are having that made you so forgetful.

Is this the same Horak that has yet to land a permanent NHL spot despite being traded away from the Flames and landing on the Oilers?

Not sure he showed he was as "ready" as many on here thought he was, which to date seems to have proven out as time goes by. He is not an NHL player at this point.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by saillias

Lots of cognitive dissonance here. As recently as last year. Horak was sent down despite looking good in training camp because he didn't have to pass through waivers... Yet Jackman and Galiardi took up roster spots. I'll smoke what you guys are having that made you so forgetful.

Is this the same Horak that has yet to land a permanent NHL spot despite being traded away from the Flames and landing on the Oilers?

Not sure he showed he was as "ready" as many on here thought he was, which to date seems to have proven out as time goes by. He is not an NHL player at this point.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

He will score some goals... and play ghost more often than not. He's pretty much on life support in the NHL though so maybe he produces this year.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Is this the same Horak that has yet to land a permanent NHL spot despite being traded away from the Flames and landing on the Oilers?

Not sure he showed he was as "ready" as many on here thought he was, which to date seems to have proven out as time goes by. He is not an NHL player at this point.

Horak is not in the NHL because the Oilers are stupid.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Let's be honest with ourselves. Fan perceptions of a "player looking good" or not may not match what the GM/Coach feel.

We also don't see what happens in practice. Jobs are won and lost in practice.

I agree with you, but there are times when fans get it right too...

One instance that really comes to mind is at the beginning of the 2011-12 season when Brodie was sent down. Smith(just signed as a UFA), Butler(had to justify a trade), and Babchuk(had a great 2010-11 season point wise) were handed roster spots because they would've had to go through waivers even though they were outplayed in camp(at least in my eyes).

I guess the "in Sutter we trust" turned into "we question any desicion" especially in regards to prospects.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I agree with you, but there are times when fans get it right too...

One instance that really comes to mind is at the beginning of the 2011-12 season when Brodie was sent down. Smith(just signed as a UFA), Butler(had to justify a trade), and Babchuk(had a great 2010-11 season point wise) were handed roster spots because they would've had to go through waivers even though they were outplayed in camp(at least in my eyes).

I guess the "in Sutter we trust" turned into "we question any desicion" especially in regards to prospects.

How do you know that extra AHL time didn't contribute to how good Brodie is now? In fact I would argue that it most likely did contribute.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by flameswin

How do you know that extra AHL time didn't contribute to how good Brodie is now? In fact I would argue that it most likely did contribute.

You can argue anything you want, that's just the way I remember it. In my mind (and most* of the fans at the time) he seemed to deserve the chance to make the team right out of camp.

I doubt the extra 1 month in the AHL would've made that much of a contribution... So now you can argue that I am saying that 1 month didn't make a difference after all, so it wouldn't make a difference in the future either. However, we are playing with "what ifs? and we will never know the answer. Too much blah blah blah for me to argue, so make your own conclusions. I simply made an observation.

*The word most is a generlization. I don't speak for each and every fan, it is simply the feeling I had at the time.

[Badgers Nose]

Last year was awesome. I liked the balance of old new players. I hope it works out the same this year. IMO Flames bottomed last year, so this year should see them improve a spot or two inthe league.

With/without Seto, the fate will be the same. I don't see him changing much. He will make a couple of guys work harder to earn their spots and should chip what will likely be a lot of goals for this team ~20.

Washed up or not, he is instantly one of the 2014 Flames best players lol.

[Mister Yamoto]

If you can bring a guy up too soon, isn't it possible to leave a guy in the minors for too long? Leland Irving comes to mind.

I just don't see why a bottom feeder team like the Flames need to go into camp year after year with with 22+ one way deals. There should be at least 2 or 3 spots open with about 10 guys having a realistic chance of being able to compete for those spots.

If none of those players show that they are ready, there will always be a Setoguchi you can sign after training camp. Like when the Flames signed Brendan Morrison.

BTW, I like the Setoguchi signing. I could see him being top 4 in goals on the Flames. I just think that they have too many players.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

If you can bring a guy up too soon, isn't it possible to leave a guy in the minors for too long? Leland Irving comes to mind.

I just don't see why a bottom feeder team like the Flames need to go into camp year after year with with 22+ one way deals. There should be at least 2 or 3 spots open with about 10 guys having a realistic chance of being able to compete for those spots.

If none of those players show that they are ready, there will always be a Setoguchi you can sign after training camp. Like when the Flames signed Brendan Morrison.

BTW, I like the Setoguchi signing. I could see him being top 4 in goals on the Flames. I just think that they have too many players.

This has already been discussed earlier, whether or not keeping a player in the minors for an extended period of time can hurt their development or not, that is not the really relevant for the current prospects we have. All of our prospects are still quite young at the moment. The fact that most of our vets are only signed until a max of three years from now shows that management is ready to provide more opportunities when the time is right for our prospects.

And again, as pointed out earlier there are two spots open right now for our prospects to take, one on defense and one on offense. Injuries will also happen.

[stemit14]

I think there is still the likelihood of injuries during training camp as well as possible trades to pick up a defenseman. I'm hoping the flames aren't looking to move out any of the young players/prospects on the team for defensive help though.

I agree that the kids should all have to earn a spot but I think the concern is that management seems to have decide there will only be one spot available and all the kids are vying for that one spot rather than having two or more positions that can be filled by either a veteran or a rookie.

Here's a hypothetical... What if granlund, baertschi, and gaudreau are all +1.5 ppg in the preseason and they all look great at both ends of the rink. Let's also say guys like setoguchi or jones maybe go pointless and really struggle in the preseason. Does anyone think the flames will then put setoguchi and jones on waivers to make to make room to give the spots to the kids that seemingly have earned it with hard work in the offseason and a strong showing at camp? I would personally hope so cause that would actually show a true meritocracy. We hear that word every year all over the NHL but few teams actually follow up with it.

Don't get me wrong... It would be great if Setoguchi and jones both had great camps and so did the kids. I just hope everyone that has been told they can earn a spot are really given the chance.