Minnie is paying two plus 30 year old bottom line calibre LWs a total of about $6.3M - Cooke and Bergenheim. Plus they are paying Kyle Brodziak 2.8.
If Matt Cooke makes $2.5, Mason Raymond is worth 3.
and they are able to do this because they are paying Brodin 900k rather than 4.1M next year and Coyle 900K rather than 3.2M next year and Scandell 1M rather than 4M next year. 3 top line players 2.8M this year, next year 11.3M...
Similar to the Flames the illusion of cap space is temporary.
of course he is actually playing like a 4th liner...
He has the 4th most PP TOI of any Forward after the big 3, and has responded with a whopping 1 PP point....
He has the 6th most TOI of any forward in general, and had responded with the 10th best PPG numbers.
He had two 3 pt nights early in the season, and just 13 pts in the other 46 he has played.
That isn't "streaky" by any definition, it's just bad.
and they are able to do this because they are paying Brodin 900k rather than 4.1M next year and Coyle 900K rather than 3.2M next year and Scandell 1M rather than 4M next year. 3 top line players 2.8M this year, next year 11.3M...
Similar to the Flames the illusion of cap space is temporary.
Yeah, except that a number of bigger contracts come off this time next year. Stajan, Jones, Hiller, and Hudler all end in 2016. Wideman, Engelland and Raymond the next year. Bollig too, FWIW. And Smid is done IMO.
Of those contracts most won't be back or will be at discounts. Hudler might go up, but I doubt it. You might keep Wideman at the same, but maybe not.
And I doubt Treliving will hand the keys to the bank to RFAs like Monahan and Gaudreau
I have to assume he is playing hurt/never got over his injury.....he is so soft it is frustrating to watch. He avoids contact at a level that is unacceptable in the NHL....or Atom. Gaudreau initiates more contact than him...truly.
__________________ This Signature line was dated so I changed it.
Minnesota has around 17M in cap space for next year
Their #6 and #7 forwards Cooke 2.5 and Nino Niederreiter at 2.667
They only have 9 forwards in all Fontaine 1M and Zucker at .9M
They only have 5 D-men in this list.
Dubnyk is a UFA.
so they need 4 more forwards and 3 more D-men and a #1 goalie.
If they are able to sign their MVP Dubynk for 6M that leaves 11M for 7 players.
Diaz and Potter are making 700k coming off of tryout contracts... pretty much the effective league minimum.
Their 3rd and 4th line and spare forward AND 6-8 d-men will be making an average of less than 1.5M
They will NOT be signing Raymond for 3M.
So you want to talk about the Wilds salary structure? Somehow including Potter and Diaz, and making guesses that Dubnyk will get Quick/Crawford/Price money? And making the wonderful statement that indeed they will not be signing Raymond, which should be somewhat obvious since he's signed in Calgary.
I'd need a microscope to see the point your making.
and they are able to do this because they are paying Brodin 900k rather than 4.1M next year and Coyle 900K rather than 3.2M next year and Scandell 1M rather than 4M next year. 3 top line players 2.8M this year, next year 11.3M...
Similar to the Flames the illusion of cap space is temporary.
You keep making these calculations from the assumption that every year every team is going to sign every player to bigger and bigger deals, which is not at all how teams operate.
Previous cheap players are replaced with new cheap players, and expensive players are signed to replace previous expensive players.
I'm not educated enough on the Wild to speculate how it's going to work for the Wild but their really expensive contracts were all already signed for last season, and they were a playff team that made the 2nd round and lost to an excellent Blackhawks team.
Location: In a land without pants, or war, or want. But mostly we care about the pants.
Exp:
$3 million is average NHL money. I don't like Raymond's game much, but that's pretty much what you're going to pay any veteran who isn't a career 4th liner, which he's not. Complain about him taking up a roster spot if you must, but his contract is nothing that is going to prevent the Flames from signing whatever talent they want going forward, so it's pretty well irrelevant.
The same thing applies to people that complain about Stajan's contract. $3 million is average money. Nothing special, nothing that needs to be agonized over. Average and ultimately irrelevant.
__________________
Better educated sadness than oblivious joy.
Minnie is paying two plus 30 year old bottom line calibre LWs a total of about $6.3M - Cooke and Bergenheim. Plus they are paying Kyle Brodziak 2.8.
If Matt Cooke makes $2.5, Mason Raymond is worth 3.
Nah. They are different players. Cooke, Bergenheim (rental), and Brodziak can grind and have proven their worth in the playoffs. If Cooke is worth $2.5M in the playoffs, Raymond is worth like $2M or less. You can hate him all you want, but Cooke has played almost double the number of playoff games Raymond has ,and has a higher PPG average over a larger sample size.
I'll take Raymond over any of those three guys on the 2nd line, but come playoffs time I am taking any of those three guys over Raymond to play on the bottom lines.
$3 million is average NHL money. I don't like Raymond's game much, but that's pretty much what you're going to pay any veteran who isn't a career 4th liner, which he's not. Complain about him taking up a roster spot if you must, but his contract is nothing that is going to prevent the Flames from signing whatever talent they want going forward, so it's pretty well irrelevant.
The same thing applies to people that complain about Stajan's contract. $3 million is average money. Nothing special, nothing that needs to be agonized over. Average and ultimately irrelevant.
If 3 mil isn't an average bottom 6er. Stajan's our only bottom 6er making that money.
If 3 mil isn't an average bottom 6er. Stajan's our only bottom 6er making that money.
It's average UFA money, it doesn't matter where they play. In this league you have top line guys like Monahan on ELCs or RFA bridge contracts. You have plenty of bottom 6 guys making more because they were UFAs and able to negotiate higher salaries (because youonger talented guys are all tied to their team via RFA status).
Have a look at UFA signings over the last 4 years and you'll see what I mean.
I think Raymond is playing where he is supposed to be 3rd or 4th line. He is actually contributing on the defensive side and on offense he needs to get better. Problem is he is trying to be playmaker and not shooting enough. Hanging on to the puck more or trying to pass he ended up losing the puck. He is a fast skater and have a decent shot. I am sure if he shoots more he'll score more.
It's average UFA money, it doesn't matter where they play. In this league you have top line guys like Monahan on ELCs or RFA bridge contracts. You have plenty of bottom 6 guys making more because they were UFAs and able to negotiate higher salaries (because youonger talented guys are all tied to their team via RFA status).
Have a look at UFA signings over the last 4 years and you'll see what I mean.
The average length of contract is 1.59 years and the average salary for all UFA's signed is just over 1.5 M
In a 30 team league Mason Raymond had the 27th highest UFA contract for annual salary and was the 21st highest overall money deal.
Spoiler!
Paul Stastny Age : 29 From - COL To - STL Yrs - 4 yearly average: $7,000,000
Thomas Vanek Age : 31 From - MTL To - MIN Yrs - 3 yearly average: $6,500,000
Ryan Miller Age : 34 From - STL To - VAN Yrs - 3 yearly average: $6,000,000
Matt Niskanen Age : 28 From - PIT To - WAS Yrs - 7 yearly average: $5,750,000
Dave Bolland Age : 28 From - TOR To - FLA Yrs - 5 yearly average: $5,500,000
Brooks Orpik Age : 34 From - PIT To - WAS Yrs - 5 yearly average: $5,500,000
Jarome Iginla Age : 37 From - BOS To - COL Yrs - 3 yearly average: $5,333,333
Radim Vrbata Age : 33 From - AZ To - VAN Yrs - 2 yearly average: $5,000,000
Matt Moulson Age : 31 From - MIN To - BUF Yrs - 5 yearly average: $5,000,000
Michael Cammalleri Age : 32 From - CGY To - NJD Yrs - 5 yearly average: $5,000,000
Mikhail Grabovski Age : 31 From - WAS To - NYI Yrs - 4 yearly average: $5,000,000
Jonas Hiller Age : 33 From - ANA To - CGY Yrs - 2 yearly average: $4,500,000
Dan Boyle Age : 38 From - NYI To - NYR Yrs - 2 yearly average: $4,500,000
Anton Stralman Age : 28 From - NYR To - TBL Yrs - 5 yearly average: $4,500,000
Willie Mitchell Age : 37 From - LAK To - FLA Yrs - 2 yearly average: $4,250,000
Kyle Quincey Age : 29 From - DET To - DET Yrs - 2 yearly average: $4,250,000
Brian Gionta Age : 36 From - MTL To - BUF Yrs - 3 yearly average: $4,250,000
Nikolai Kulemin Age : 28 From - TOR To - NYI Yrs - 4 yearly average: $4,187,500
Andrej Meszaros Age : 29 From - BOS To - BUF Yrs - 1 yearly average: $4,125,000
Ales Hemsky Age : 31 From - OTT To - DAL Yrs - 3 yearly average: $4,000,000
Milan Michalek Age : 30 From - OTT To - OTT Yrs - 3 yearly average: $4,000,000
Christian Ehrhoff Age : 32 From - BUF To - PIT Yrs - 1 yearly average: $4,000,000
Benoit Pouliot Age : 28 From - NYR To - EDM Yrs - 5 yearly average: $4,000,000
Jussi Jokinen Age : 31 From - PIT To - FLA Yrs - 4 yearly average: $4,000,000
Mark Fayne Age : 27 From - NJD To - EDM Yrs - 4 yearly average: $3,625,000
Clayton Stoner Age : 30 From - MIN To - ANA Yrs - 4 yearly average: $3,250,000
Mason Raymond Age : 29 From - TOR To - CGY Yrs - 3 yearly average: $3,150,000
Stephane Robidas Age : 38 From - ANA To - TOR Yrs - 3 yearly average: $3,000,000
David Legwand Age : 34 From - DET To - OTT Yrs - 2 yearly average: $3,000,000
Jiri Tlusty Age : 27 From - CAR To - CAR Yrs - 1 yearly average: $2,950,000
Deryk Engelland Age : 32 From - PIT To - CGY Yrs - 3 yearly average: $2,916,667
Ilya Bryzgalov Age : 34 From - MIN To - ANA Yrs - 1 yearly average: $2,880,000
Tom Gilbert Age : 32 From - FLA To - MTL Yrs - 2 yearly average: $2,800,000
Steve Ott Age : 32 From - STL To - STL Yrs - 2 yearly average: $2,600,000
Dan Cleary Age : 27 From - DET To - DET Yrs - 1 yearly average: $2,500,000
Olli Jokinen Age : 36 From - WPG To - NSH Yrs - 1 yearly average: $2,500,000
Brian Boyle Age : 30 From - NYR To - TBL Yrs - 3 yearly average: $2,000,000
Brad Richards Age : 34 From - NYR To - CHI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $2,000,000
Mike Weaver Age : 36 From - MTL To - MTL Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,750,000
Brenden Morrow Age : 36 From - STL To - TBL Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,550,000
Evgeni Nabokov Age : 39 From - NYI To - TBL Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,550,000
Cody McCormick Age : 31 From - BUF To - BUF Yrs - 3 yearly average: $1,500,000
Dominic Moore Age : 34 From - NYR To - NYR Yrs - 2 yearly average: $1,500,000
Mike Santorelli Age : 29 From - VAN To - TOR Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,500,000
Martin Havlat Age : 33 From - SJS To - NJD Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,500,000
Tanner Glass Age : 31 From - PIT To - NYR Yrs - 3 yearly average: $1,450,000
Derek MacKenzie Age : 33 From - CBJ To - FLA Yrs - 3 yearly average: $1,300,000
Chad Johnson Age : 28 From - BOS To - NYI Yrs - 2 yearly average: $1,300,000
Michael Del Zotto Age : 24 From - NSH To - PHI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,300,000
Daniel Winnik Age : 30 From - TOR To - TOR Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,300,000
Vernon Fiddler Age : 34 From - DAL To - DAL Yrs - 2 yearly average: $1,250,000
Nick Schultz Age : 32 From - CBJ To - PHI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,250,000
Shawn Thornton Age : 37 From - BOS To - FLA Yrs - 2 yearly average: $1,200,000
Tim Gleason Age : 32 From - TOR To - CAR Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,200,000
Marcel Goc Age : 31 From - PIT To - PIT Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,200,000
Joe Vitale Age : 29 From - PIT To - AZ Yrs - 3 yearly average: $1,116,667
David Booth Age : 30 From - VAN To - TOR Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,100,000
Al Montoya Age : 30 From - WPG To - FLA Yrs - 2 yearly average: $1,050,000
Mike Ribeiro Age : 35 From - AZ To - NSH Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,050,000
Derek Roy Age : 31 From - STL To - NSH Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,000,000
Scott Hannan Age : 36 From - SJS To - SJS Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,000,000
Dany Heatley Age : 34 From - MIN To - ANA Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,000,000
Anton Volchenkov Age : 33 From - NJD To - NSH Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,000,000
Jay McClement Age : 32 From - TOR To - CAR Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,000,000
Steve Downie Age : 27 From - PHI To - PIT Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,000,000
Ray Emery Age : 32 From - PHI To - PHI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,000,000
Thomas Greiss Age : 29 From - AZ To - PIT Yrs - 1 yearly average: $1,000,000
Justin Peters Age : 28 From - CAR To - WAS Yrs - 2 yearly average: $950,000
Anders Lindback Age : 26 From - TBL To - DAL Yrs - 1 yearly average: $925,000
Jesse Winchester Age : 31 From - FLA To - COL Yrs - 2 yearly average: $900,000
Lee Stempniak Age : 32 From - PIT To - NYR Yrs - 1 yearly average: $900,000
Stephen Gionta Age : 31 From - NJD To - NJD Yrs - 2 yearly average: $850,000
Manny Malhotra Age : 34 From - CAR To - MTL Yrs - 1 yearly average: $850,000
Andre Benoit Age : 31 From - COL To - BUF Yrs - 1 yearly average: $800,000
Aaron Johnson Age : 31 From - NYR To - OTT Yrs - 1 yearly average: $800,000
Devan Dubnyk Age : 28 From - MTL To - AZ Yrs - 1 yearly average: $800,000
Keith Aulie Age : 25 From - TBL To - EDM Yrs - 1 yearly average: $800,000
Zach Redmond Age : 26 From - WPG To - COL Yrs - 2 yearly average: $750,000
Devin Setoguchi Age : 28 From - CGY To - CGY Yrs - 1 yearly average: $750,000
Brian Gibbons Age : 27 From - PIT To - CBJ Yrs - 1 yearly average: $750,000
Jason LaBarbera Age : 35 From - CHI To - ANA Yrs - 1 yearly average: $750,000
Jack Skille Age : 28 From - CBJ To - NYI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $750,000
Ryan Carter Age : 31 From - NJD To - MIN Yrs - 1 yearly average: $725,000
Matt Halischuk Age : 26 From - WPG To - WPG Yrs - 1 yearly average: $725,000
Martin Brodeur Age : 42 From - NJD To - STL Yrs - 1 yearly average: $700,000
Ryan Malone Age : 35 From - TBL To - NYI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $700,000
Corey Potter Age : 31 From - BOS To - CGY Yrs - 1 yearly average: $700,000
Justin Falk Age : 26 From - NYR To - MIN Yrs - 1 yearly average: $700,000
T.J. Galiardi Age : 26 From - CGY To - WPG Yrs - 1 yearly average: $700,000
Nate Prosser Age : 28 From - MIN To - STL Yrs - 1 yearly average: $700,000
Keaton Ellerby Age : 26 From - WPG To - WPG Yrs - 1 yearly average: $700,000
Zac Dalpe Age : 25 From - VAN To - BUF Yrs - 1 yearly average: $700,000
Alex Grant Age : 26 From - OTT To - OTT Yrs - 1 yearly average: $700,000
Sena Acolatse Age : 24 From - SJS To - CGY Yrs - 1 yearly average: $700,000
John Scott Age : 32 From - BUF To - SJS Yrs - 1 yearly average: $700,000
David Leggio Age : 30 From - WAS To - NYI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $700,000
Blake Comeau Age : 29 From - CBJ To - PIT Yrs - 1 yearly average: $700,000
Brad Malone Age : 25 From - COL To - CAR Yrs - 2 yearly average: $650,000
Ben Street Age : 28 From - CGY To - COL Yrs - 2 yearly average: $650,000
Colin Fraser Age : 30 From - LAK To - STL Yrs - 1 yearly average: $650,000
Chris Butler Age : 28 From - CGY To - STL Yrs - 1 yearly average: $650,000
Jerome Samson Age : 27 From - WPG To - TBL Yrs - 1 yearly average: $650,000
Tyson Strachan Age : 30 From - BUF To - BUF Yrs - 1 yearly average: $650,000
Mike Kostka Age : 29 From - TBL To - NYR Yrs - 1 yearly average: $650,000
Peter Regin Age : 28 From - CHI To - CHI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $650,000
Mike Angelidis Age : From - TBL To - TBL Yrs - 1 yearly average: $650,000
Patrick Eaves Age : 30 From - NSH To - DAL Yrs - 1 yearly average: $650,000
Carlo Colaiacovo Age : 32 From - STL To - PHI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $625,000
Jordan Schroeder Age : 24 From - VAN To - MIN Yrs - 2 yearly average: $600,000
Cedrick Desjardins Age : From - TBL To - NYR Yrs - 2 yearly average: $600,000
Brett Sutter Age : 27 From - CAR To - MIN Yrs - 2 yearly average: $600,000
Julien Brouillette Age : From - WAS To - WPG Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Brett Bellemore Age : 26 From - CAR To - CAR Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Micheal Haley Age : From - NYR To - SJS Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
John McCarthy Age : From - SJS To - STL Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Troy Bodie Age : 30 From - TOR To - TOR Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Ben Holmstrom Age : 27 From - PHI To - CGY Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Paul Byron Age : 25 From - CGY To - CGY Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Kyle Cumiskey Age : 28 From - ANA To - CHI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Joel Rechlicz Age : 27 From - WAS To - MIN Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Alexandre Bolduc Age : 29 From - STL To - AZ Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Dustin Jeffrey Age : 27 From - DAL To - VAN Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Stu Bickel Age : 28 From - NYR To - MIN Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Andy Miele Age : 26 From - AZ To - DET Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Taylor Fedun Age : 26 From - EDM To - SJS Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Scott Clemmensen Age : 37 From - FLA To - NJD Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Joey MacDonald Age : 35 From - CGY To - MTL Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Cory Conacher Age : 25 From - BUF To - NYI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Steve Bernier Age : 29 From - NJD To - NJD Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Mike Blunden Age : From - MTL To - TBL Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Matt Hunwick Age : 29 From - COL To - NYR Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Alex Biega Age : 26 From - VAN To - VAN Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Adam Cracknell Age : 29 From - STL To - LAK Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
T.J. Brennan Age : 25 From - TOR To - NYI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Drew Macintyre Age : From - TOR To - CAR Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Christopher Breen Age : 25 From - CGY To - BOS Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Kevin Porter Age : 29 From - BUF To - DET Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Chris Mueller Age : 29 From - DAL To - NYR Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Harry Zolnierczyk Age : 27 From - PIT To - NYI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $600,000
Nick Tarnasky Age : 30 From - MTL To - NYR Yrs - 2 yearly average: $575,000
Ryan White Age : 27 From - MTL To - PHI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $575,000
John Curry Age : 31 From - MIN To - MIN Yrs - 1 yearly average: $575,000
Bryan Lerg Age : 29 From - COL To - SJS Yrs - 1 yearly average: $575,000
Zack Stortini Age : 29 From - ANA To - PHI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $575,000
Mark Fraser Age : 28 From - EDM To - NJD Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Scott Gomez Age : 35 From - FLA To - NJD Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Jamie McBain Age : 27 From - AZ To - LAK Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Daniel Carcillo Age : 30 From - NYR To - CHI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Jeremy Welsh Age : 26 From - VAN To - STL Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Trevor Smith Age : 30 From - TOR To - TOR Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Matthew Corrente Age : From - CAR To - TBL Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Pat Cannone Age : From - STL To - STL Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Joe Piskula Age : From - NSH To - NSH Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Tim Kennedy Age : From - AZ To - WAS Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Zach Sill Age : 26 From - PIT To - PIT Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Andrew Gordon Age : 29 From - WPG To - PHI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Kris Newbury Age : From - PHI To - WAS Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Jeremy Smith Age : 25 From - CBJ To - BOS Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Mike McKenna Age : 31 From - CBJ To - AZ Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Andrew Campbell Age : 27 From - LAK To - AZ Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Pierre-Cedric Labrie Age : From - TBL To - CHI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Taylor Chorney Age : From - STL To - PIT Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Jon Landry Age : 31 From - MIN To - WAS Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Cody Bass Age : 28 From - CAR To - CHI Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
David Van Der Gulik Age : 31 From - COL To - LAK Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Steven Kampfer Age : 26 From - MIN To - NYR Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Mike Moore Age : 30 From - BOS To - WAS Yrs - 1 yearly average: $550,000
Jordin Tootoo Age : 32 From - DET To - NJD Yrs - 1 yearly average: $500,000
Last edited by MRCboicgy; 03-26-2015 at 08:15 PM.
Reason: Holy long list batman. use the tags!
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The average length of contract is 1.59 years and the average salary for all UFA's signed is just over 1.5 M
In a 30 team league Mason Raymond had the 27th highest UFA contract for annual salary and was the 21st highest overall money deal.
Most of the players on that list make less than 1m. Kind of distorts the data when adding in all those depth/AHL guys, no? It think it would make sense to compare Raymond strictly with his peers. 3m is pretty average for top a top 9 forward in the UFA market, adding in the Tootoos of the world doesn't change that.
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