[Rumour] Dreger: Backlund is available. Garrioch: Shane O'Brien available too

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by Hank Hill

I like it. Flames may have to take a bad contract to make this happen but it makes sense.

If Flames fans are expecting Rask to be a better NHL player then Backlund, don't hold your breath.

[Mr.Coffee]

This may be seriously off topic / deserve it's own thread. But this Backlund rumour really got me thinking because I just can't understand why:

a) He's had spurts of very good (last year seemed quite effective), and spurts of not-noticeable / bad
b) why is he being used the way he is by Hartley (4th line? #### off). People don't succeed when you don't put them in a position to.
c) Why all of our seemingly encouraging prospects...bust.

And so it has me worried about a guy like Monahan too. Or all of them, really.

Maybe the solution isn't so much about how we can extract as much value from the asset (Backlund) as we can today by trade.

Maybe the solution is to take a very serious hard look at how we develop prospects and why it is not working and has not worked for years.

Otherwise the problem never really gets solved. Backlund, Monahan, Jesus Christ himself. The problem seems systemic within the organization. And no I'm not giving Backlund a free pass... because maybe he really is a bust. But isn't it odd that literally all of our prospects up until this point aren't able to break into the league and make a statement? Monahan... maybe... but I can still see the Flames destroy his career.

How many of you, when you saw this rumour, thought to yourself 'well if he ends up in some place like Detroit, he will ####ing dominate once Babcock gets ahold of him'??

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

This may be seriously off topic / deserve it's own thread. But this Backlund rumour really got me thinking because I just can't understand why:

a) He's had spurts of very good (last year seemed quite effective), and spurts of not-noticeable / bad
b) why is he being used the way he is by Hartley (4th line? #### off). People don't succeed when you don't put them in a position to.
c) Why all of our seemingly encouraging prospects...bust.

And so it has me worried about a guy like Monahan too. Or all of them, really.

Maybe the solution isn't so much about how we can extract as much value from the asset (Backlund) as we can today by trade.

Maybe the solution is to take a very serious hard look at how we develop prospects and why it is not working and has not worked for years.

Otherwise the problem never really gets solved. Backlund, Monahan, Jesus Christ himself. The problem seems systemic within the organization. And no I'm not giving Backlund a free pass... because maybe he really is a bust. But isn't it odd that literally all of our prospects up until this point aren't able to break into the league and make a statement? Monahan... maybe... but I can still see the Flames destroy his career.

How many of you, when you saw this rumour, thought to yourself 'well if he ends up in some place like Detroit, he will ####ing dominate once Babcock gets ahold of him'??

Pretty much exactly what I've thought. Just extreme mismanagement over his whole career. A couple years ago when he hadn't proved anything he was projected to be the first line center out of training camp. Now that he's actually showing signs of being a solid NHLer he's stuck with McGrattan and Jackman(or whoever replaces him). He got about 10 minutes on a scoring line with Cammalleri and Hudler and was involved in the two prettiest goals this team has scored this season, and his reward? Back to the 4th line.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Redrum

Pretty much exactly what I've thought. Just extreme mismanagement over his whole career. A couple years ago when he hadn't proved anything he was projected to be the first line center out of training camp. Now that he's actually showing signs of being a solid NHLer he's stuck with McGrattan and Jackman(or whoever replaces him). He got about 10 minutes on a scoring line with Cammalleri and Hudler and was involved in the two prettiest goals this team has scored this season, and his reward? Back to the 4th line.

Who predicted Backlund to become a first line Center though? I sort of think it was fans, and not management.

[dissentowner]

I guess some of you see more in Backlund then I do because I see another Darryl Sutter busted 1st rnder. Now since Feaster has taken the reigns I see a lot of promising young players. Are people honestly comparing Backlund and Monahan? Backlund never showed the promise Monahan has. I think Backlund's upside has always been a 3rd line C, I think too many people on here had unrealistic expectations for him to develop into a player with a skill set he has never shown.

[theoforever]

That line sucked the next game.
Backlund has been treated harshly but part of it is his own fault.

His problem is that Flames want to see what they have in Colborne.
Monahan is untouchable at the moment.
So, who do you put on the 4th line, Stajan who has been better than Backlund?

They should just move him to the wing and see how it goes.

In the past Flames gave away draftpicks, failed to give players time to develop, had no development plan, etc.

However, the entire organization, management and coaching has changed in the last couple of years. They haven't had the time to destroy anyone yet, but they are working on it.

One thing that bothers me, is that they refuse to roll 4 lines which would be the best way to develop players.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I guess some of you see more in Backlund then I do because I see another Darryl Sutter busted 1st rnder. Now since Feaster has taken the reigns I see a lot of promising young players. Are people honestly comparing Backlund and Monahan? Backlund never showed the promise Monahan has. I think Backlund's upside has always been a 3rd line C, I think too many people on here had unrealistic expectations for him to develop into a player with a skill set he has never shown.

Not sure how he can be a bust considering he was 24th overall and only a couple players better than him in the next 30 or so picks.

I think he was a steal at the 24th pick. Backlund will have an NHL job for a long time which you cant say for a lot of the players in the 2007 first round or second round.

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I guess some of you see more in Backlund then I do because I see another Darryl Sutter busted 1st rnder. Now since Feaster has taken the reigns I see a lot of promising young players. Are people honestly comparing Backlund and Monahan? Backlund never showed the promise Monahan has. I think Backlund's upside has always been a 3rd line C, I think too many people on here had unrealistic expectations for him to develop into a player with a skill set he has never shown.

Some of you really need to take a look at he 2007 draft/Backlund position.

Seriously..

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Who predicted Backlund to become a first line Center though? I sort of think it was fans, and not management.

It wasn't a prediction, he was placed between Iggy and Tanguay in training camp 2 years ago, then got a broken finger which set him back a bit. That's a lot of pressure on a guy who was still a kid and our best prospect at the time.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by Mattman

Backlund for Erat + 2014 1st

+ George McPhee's resignation papers, then maybe . Whenever Erat is dealt its basically going to come down to what McPhee ends up getting for Filip Forsberg. For his sake I hope it's better than Backlund, while also not having to shed a first rounder in the process.

I think if Backlund gets traded it will be part of a package in order to up our return. By himself his value is pretty low and not really worth trading IMO.

[djsFlames]

Backlund was demoted to the 4th line after her had a poor showing with Hudler and Cammy after their excellent performance against the Avs. Was it Dallas? Can't remember, but they had a stinker after getting back from that trip and were split up because of it, and Backlund obviously took the brunt of the blame for what happened. I still think that line should've been given longer to prove itself. Cause they looked deadly against the Avs.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

This may be seriously off topic / deserve it's own thread. But this Backlund rumour really got me thinking because I just can't understand why:

a) He's had spurts of very good (last year seemed quite effective), and spurts of not-noticeable / bad
b) why is he being used the way he is by Hartley (4th line? #### off). People don't succeed when you don't put them in a position to.
c) Why all of our seemingly encouraging prospects...bust.

And so it has me worried about a guy like Monahan too. Or all of them, really.

Maybe the solution isn't so much about how we can extract as much value from the asset (Backlund) as we can today by trade.

Maybe the solution is to take a very serious hard look at how we develop prospects and why it is not working and has not worked for years.

Otherwise the problem never really gets solved. Backlund, Monahan, Jesus Christ himself. The problem seems systemic within the organization. And no I'm not giving Backlund a free pass... because maybe he really is a bust. But isn't it odd that literally all of our prospects up until this point aren't able to break into the league and make a statement? Monahan... maybe... but I can still see the Flames destroy his career.

How many of you, when you saw this rumour, thought to yourself 'well if he ends up in some place like Detroit, he will ####ing dominate once Babcock gets ahold of him'??

He can't score, act the playmaker or win face-offs. Unless you believe Babcock can change 2 out of the 3, he will never be more than fringe.

Even as a labelled hater, it makes no sense to flip him for a 3rd round pick or later. Best we can do is take back salary plus a prospect for him.

[cowtown75]

Originally Posted by theoforever

That line sucked the next game.
Backlund has been treated harshly but part of it is his own fault.

His problem is that Flames want to see what they have in Colborne.
Monahan is untouchable at the moment.
So, who do you put on the 4th line, Stajan who has been better than Backlund?

They should just move him to the wing and see how it goes.

In the past Flames gave away draftpicks, failed to give players time to develop, had no development plan, etc.

However, the entire organization, management and coaching has changed in the last couple of years. They haven't had the time to destroy anyone yet, but they are working on it.

One thing that bothers me, is that they refuse to roll 4 lines which would be the best way to develop players.

I agree that he should be put on the wing. He is speedy and has offensive instinct. I also believe this would potentially give him more ice time and develop better (maybe this has been the problem all along). Also, if he is needed for a face-off once his centerman is waived, he has experience there too. It makes perfect sense to me and would make our front lines more well rounded/ adjustable. I don't want to see Backs moved unless it's an over-payment by the other team.

[Wastedyouth]

Backlund cant score because when he isnt sitting on the 4th line he spends the game playing against the hardest competition with the toughest zone starts. And he still drive play well above any competition he has faced.

If he was given Monahan or Colbornes cushy zone starts and butter soft competition he would likely out produce them both. Hes had a rough ride from the last two coaches for the Flames. Constantly being called out to produce under circumstances that Pavel Datsyuk sees on a regular basis. The kid is 24.

If the Flames trade him it will be embarrassing.

[shogged]

[Young-Sneezy]

2007 Draft:

24 Mikael Backlund - 140 Games, 62 Points
25 Patrick White - 0 NHL Games, Currently in the Eishockey-Bundeslinga???
26 David Perron - Full Time NHLer , 198 Points
27 Brendan Smith - 14 NHL Games, 7 Points
28 Nick Petrecki - 1 NHL game, 0 points
29 Jim O'Brien - 63 NHL Games, 12 Points
30 Nick Ross - 0 NHL Games, Currently in the DEL

in the grand scheme of things, maybe not so bad.

[stemit14]

I think it's a good argument that was made before... maybe these young players need to be developed better by the organization. I look at a team like boston... I think they are one of if not the best in the league at developing talent. I look what they did with guys like marchant, Lucic, Bergeron, and Krejci and I see how they were patient in bringing them up to the NHL but they also put them in positions to succeed when they came up. And they have a whole new crop of guys that they are doing the same thing with: Soderburg, spooner, Krug, Bartkowski, and Hamilton all look right on track to be great players.

I think a big part of their success is that they roll all four lines more evenly than anyone in the NHL and they include scoring talent on every line. If you think about it, any rookie that comes up gets to play on a line that gets good minutes and has guys that can produce. It makes the bruins a deeper team and it's why Boston's 3rd and 4th lines seem to put up just as many highlight reel goals as their top lines.

In Calgary, for the longest time it's seemed like the philosophy has been that any skilled prospect gets put on a 4th line with fighters who only play 5-7 minutes a game and they can only move up the line up if they score. We've seen it with guys like Boyd, Backlund, and even baertschi last year at times. Guys who seem to have the skills but aren't put in the right spot to succeed. When Boston brought up marchand in the 2011, They put him onto the line with Recchi and Bergeron so that he could play the game that suited him. Same thing with Krug last year... They didn't bring him up and make him play as a 6th defenseman... They put him on powerplays in his first game.

I do think the flames are getting better at developing players but it would be very disappointing if a guy like gaudreau comes up next year and is put on a left wing with McGrattan and told that he has to score with those line mates in order to move to a better line.

[cowtown75]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I think it's a good argument that was made before... maybe these young players need to be developed better by the organization. I look at a team like boston... I think they are one of if not the best in the league at developing talent. I look what they did with guys like marchant, Lucic, Bergeron, and Krejci and I see how they were patient in bringing them up to the NHL but they also put them in positions to succeed when they came up. And they have a whole new crop of guys that they are doing the same thing with: Soderburg, spooner, Krug, Bartkowski, and Hamilton all look right on track to be great players.

I think a big part of their success is that they roll all four lines more evenly than anyone in the NHL and they include scoring talent on every line. If you think about it, any rookie that comes up gets to play on a line that gets good minutes and has guys that can produce. It makes the bruins a deeper team and it's why Boston's 3rd and 4th lines seem to put up just as many highlight reel goals as their top lines.

In Calgary, for the longest time it's seemed like the philosophy has been that any skilled prospect gets put on a 4th line with fighters who only play 5-7 minutes a game and they can only move up the line up if they score. We've seen it with guys like Boyd, Backlund, and even baertschi last year at times. Guys who seem to have the skills but aren't put in the right spot to succeed. When Boston brought up marchand in the 2011, They put him onto the line with Recchi and Bergeron so that he could play the game that suited him. Same thing with Krug last year... They didn't bring him up and make him play as a 6th defenseman... They put him on powerplays in his first game.

I do think the flames are getting better at developing players but it would be very disappointing if a guy like gaudreau comes up next year and is put on a left wing with McGrattan and told that he has to score with those line mates in order to move to a better line.

Excellent analysis, well played, and agreed.

[Isbrant]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Backlund cant score because when he isnt sitting on the 4th line he spends the game playing against the hardest competition with the toughest zone starts. And he still drive play well above any competition he has faced.

If he was given Monahan or Colbornes cushy zone starts and butter soft competition he would likely out produce them both. Hes had a rough ride from the last two coaches for the Flames. Constantly being called out to produce under circumstances that Pavel Datsyuk sees on a regular basis. The kid is 24.

If the Flames trade him it will be embarrassing.

Do you have the stats to back this up? I am curious to see what the competition and zone stats look like for the three players with and without their time on the 4th line.

[Wastedyouth]

Backlund has a 45% Dzone start ratio with a 55% Ozone completion.

McGrattan has a 53% Ozone start 52% finish, Tim Jackman 69% 54% finish. So when Backlund is on the 4th he is getting some Ozone starts but when he is anywhere else in the lineup, he is seeing way way below 50%.

He has the best start to finish ratio of anyone on the team besides TJ Brodie, who is to be honest, a beast.

behindthenet.ca

I am not gonna post all his advanced stats, as I am sure they will only be poopoo'd here, but if you like that kind of thing and take any stock into it, he comes out very well.

Also he passes the eye test. He makes the odd blunder, which probably looks far worse to the average fan because when he makes the odd blunder and doesnt make up for it, its usually because hes on the ice against the top forwards on the opposing team and it often ends up in the net behind the sieve goaltenders we have.

If you doubled or even 1.5 times his 11 mins avg of ice time you probably would not notice the gaffes quite as much I would think, but because he plays so little the eye test can be fooled because less ice time can lead to highlighting mistakes in your mind.

He's criminally underrated, and the Flames would be fools to ditch him.