[News] Flames scratch Sven...again

[Fan in Exile]

What Hartley told the Sun is:

“I told him on the ice that I want to exactly show him where we need an improvement,” Hartley said. “At the same time, guys like Jackman, McGrattan and Bouma, they’re bringing something every day to the table. Our No. 1 priority as a coaching staff is to win some games ...
“The best way to stay in the lineup on a game-to-game basis is to perform.”

Okay, Hartley defenders. According to Coach Bob, this has zippo to do with Sven's development. Please explain to me again what Jackman, McGrattan and Bouma are bringing to the table every game and helping the Flames win some games. His words not mine.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

Wow

What are you "wow"ing? He's right... "feuding" is a two person dance and if a coach is feuding with a rookie? That denotes a lack of maturity which is to be expected (and thus forgivable) with a rookie, with a coach? not so much.

That being said I don't think htere's any personal vendetta's going on here.

[TheDebaser]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Why would you think different?

If a 53 year old coach is quarreling with a 21 year old rookie (assuming that that there is an issue in the first place), who is really the problem? Who's really being more childish? There's a potential language barrier and all that.

You are taking a huuuuge leap in assuming that there's even a "quarrel" in the first place.

Edit: or a "feud"

[Robbob]

Is it possible that Sven didn't have a good practice after the scratch. Maybe the coaching staff expected more of a response from him and when they didn't get what they wanted they sent him to the press box again. Either that or the flames played so bad in Minny that Sven learned nothing.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by TheDebaser

You are taking a huuuuge leap in assuming that there's even a "quarrel" in the first place.

I understand that. That was the premise of the post.

I'm just responding to a situation created by some posters on here.

[Lil Pedro]

Don't really understand the move. I am about effective on the Flames as Jackman is right now. If you aren't going to play Sven in the top 9, send him down to the farm! This does nothing for him to sit up in the press box and munch popcorn.

Poor choice by Hartley. He needs to ditch this hard nosed approach with his younger players or else he will be back on a plane to Zurich looking for a new job

[Phanuthier]

Branch Svendian?

[FlamesAddiction]

I don't think there is a hidden meaning or a conspiracy, some times a cigar is just a cigar.

It seems obvious that there is something that Hartley feels Baertschi is not buying into and he is using healthy scratches as a way to force Sven's hand. The coach is the boss, and if Baertschi is't doing what he is told, the last thing the coach should do is just give in to the player. Once he does that, the inmates will be running the asylum. I highly doubt this is some kind of personal issue between them.

The only thing I think is up for debate, keeping in mind that none of us are inside the room or watching every practice; is whether or not Hartely is asking him to buy into something that he is just not capable of even if Hartley thinks he is.

I personally don't care if we lose more games with Baertschi scratched if this is what it takes to turn him from a Marko Sturm path, to a Marian Hossa path.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by fotze

I bet there's a few that have more.

You're right. There may be one or two. I let my sense of hyperbole get the best of me, but my point still stands.

[ah123]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

What Hartley told the Sun is:

“I told him on the ice that I want to exactly show him where we need an improvement,” Hartley said. “At the same time, guys like Jackman, McGrattan and Bouma, they’re bringing something every day to the table. Our No. 1 priority as a coaching staff is to win some games ...
“The best way to stay in the lineup on a game-to-game basis is to perform.”

Okay, Hartley defenders. According to Coach Bob, this has zippo to do with Sven's development. Please explain to me again what Jackman, McGrattan and Bouma are bringing to the table every game and helping the Flames win some games. His words not mine.

Not really trying to defend Hartley, but I understand what McGrattan and Bouma bring; they are expected to be a physical presence to deter other teams from taking advantage of our skilled players. I have no clue what Jackman brings, nor do I know what is expected from Baertschi or Backlund

[Bane]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Why would you think different?

If a 53 year old coach is quarreling with a 21 year old rookie (assuming that that there is an issue in the first place), who is really the problem? Who's really being more childish? There's a potential language barrier and all that.

Rookies don't dictate policy to the coach.

If the coach asks the player to do something and he doesn't, then he sits in the press box. End of story. Clearly Baertschi is still missing the point that Hartley is making during practice and video sessions. Let Hartley and the coaching staff teach.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

What Hartley told the Sun is:

“I told him on the ice that I want to exactly show him where we need an improvement,” Hartley said. “At the same time, guys like Jackman, McGrattan and Bouma, they’re bringing something every day to the table. Our No. 1 priority as a coaching staff is to win some games ...
“The best way to stay in the lineup on a game-to-game basis is to perform.”

Okay, Hartley defenders. According to Coach Bob, this has zippo to do with Sven's development. Please explain to me again what Jackman, McGrattan and Bouma are bringing to the table every game and helping the Flames win some games. His words not mine.

That has everything to do with development. Hartley wants to see improvement and wants to show him where he needs to improve. That is what player development is.

If Baertschi isn't taking the necessary steps to improve (like dogging it in practice, or not taking the advice in games and scrimamages), then he is right to use a whip instead of a carrot.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Bane

Rookies don't dictate policy to the coach.

If the coach asks the player to do something and he doesn't, then he sits in the press box. End of story. Clearly Baertschi is still missing the point that Hartley is making during practice and video sessions. Let Hartley and the coaching staff teach.

He's missing the point? What point? To be more like Jackman?

Sometimes the coach is wrong. We've seen a long history of coaches being wrong in Calgary. They are not infallible.

Hartley wanted to win, so he believed he coach achieve that by scratching Backlund/Baertschi. He was wrong. He is wrong.

I want Backlund to be Backlund and I want Baertschi to be Baertschi. They are nobody else and should not be held to different standards.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

I thought this was all about last game, kind of shocked it's about tonight's game as well.

I sure hope Hartley knows what he's doing. Glencross being hurt looked like the perfect opportunity for Sven to slot back in. Not sure what to say.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Uhh, they're closer to the situation. Steinberg, Millions (who literally travels with the team), and Francis don't understand the situation.

Millions and Francis in the past have usually been the ones supporting the coach. Don't you think it's odd that they are confused by Hartley's actions?

Would be nice to see the media actually ask Hartley the tough questions though.

I litterally said that RM was closer to the situation in the post you quoted. No I don't think Francis is remotely closer to the situation, I'd wager he watches and pays less attention to the Flames then you or I do.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

...It seems obvious that there is something that Hartley feels Baertschi is not buying into and he is using healthy scratches as a way to force Sven's hand. The coach is the boss, and if Baertschi is't doing what he is told, the last thing the coach should do is just give in to the player. Once he does that, the inmates will be running the asylum. I highly doubt this is some kind of personal issue between them...

I think that this is really key here. Regardless of what you think about Hartley; ether you think he is a good coach or not, what should be obvious to everyone is that he needs to be firm with his decisions and in his interactions with players.

It is silly to think that this somehow has the potential to permanently damage Baertschi. For gods sake, he's an elite level professional hockey player! I'm quite certain that he has encountered his fair share of hard-ass coaches in his time; a handful of healthy scratches in his rookie / sophomore season are not suddenly going to throw him off the rails and turn him into a quivering puddle of mush. Some of you people are ridiculous.

[puckluck2]

Send him to the AHL if you're not going to let him play. Being a Flame fan is frustrating. The one game I understood but 2 straight games is BS. You have lazy players like Glencross who make turn over after turn over without consequence.

Maybe Baertschi needs to be Canadian for Hartley to like him.

[irrevocable]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Maybe Baertschi needs to be Canadian for Hartley to like him.

...Right.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Since neither Millions nor Francis has ever coached an NHL hockey team, then no, I would posit that they don't have a whole lot more insight than the intuitive fan.

It is unfortunate that Baertschi is not playing. I wish he were, and I don't understand why he is not. I also have never met him, and have no idea what sort of a person he is. I have never coached an NHL team, nor any professional hockey team, nor have I ever been employed in any capacity of professional hockey operations. Since Hartley, Cloutier, Gelinas, Burke and Feaster ALL can claim to have done ALL of these things, then I am QUITE CONVINCED that they know MUCH BETTER than I do, and they know MUCH BETTER than Millions and Francis about why it is a good idea to scratch Baertschi tonight.

I'm pretty sure that every single poster on this board has about as much professional hockey coaching and management experience as I do, so you will forgive me for not thinking very much of the opinions of those of you who are CERTAIN that this is an inconsolable mistake.

At the same time taking the attitude of "well they must know what they're doing" has been proven to be disastrous time and time again, not just in sports but in human history.

Plus it's not fun.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I find it a head scratcher too ... believe me.

But then I always ask myself how the other side would have to look in order for it to be as annoying as it seems.

Hartley is scratching Baertschi and underemploying Backlund because he wants to get fired.
Hartley is scratching Baertschi and underemploying Backlund because he dislikes young players.
Hartley is scratching Baertschi and underemploying Backlund because he doesn't like Europeans
Hartley is scratching Baertschi and underemploying Backlund because has been told he has to finish last place or not get extended

all doubtful

The only thing that makes sense to me in light of how Colborne and Monahan are mainstays in the lineup are that they are developing a new core, and trying to rid the franchise of the recent sink of 60 foot players and they feel the risk of alienating young players is worth the pain to develop that foundation in no uncertain terms now.

I don't think you can lump together backlund and baertschi as their issues are pretty different.

In baertschi's case he's just been bad. I think people are looking too hard for reasons.