Official World Cup 2014 Qualifying Thread (Blame It On RIO)

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

I'm excited for this game already. 3 points will put us in a very good position.

3 points tonight? I think they clinch a berth.

Assuming they beat Cuba in October (90% chance) one point tonight would give Canada 11 points and that will definitely be enough to get in. Heck even 10 points might be enough if Panama beats Honduras. My wish is that Canada goes into the final match against Honduras already clinching a spot.

If tonight is a draw

Canada 8
Panama 7
Honduras 7 (Honduras should throttle Cuba)

Then if Canada beats Cuba they got 11.. if the Panama-Honduras match doesn't end in a draw, Canada is in!

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

^ While I would expect better from an association, making noise outside of a visiting team's hotel is nothing new. It appears that the players are unfazed. Patrice Bernier and David Edgar have both tweeted and seem to think it is fun, but also mention earplugs and iPods.

At the very least, it will be an interesting atmosphere at the match tonight. Hopefully the ref is competent and that nothing gets thrown at the players. A big ask, I know, but the rest is just part of the "fun" of playing in Central America.

I don't think it's abnormal, just pointing out how ridiculous it is for people to get upset at a guy hiding a ball for 3 seconds when stuff like this is considered par for the course for the opposition.

[Flamenspiel]

Ok, lets have a little fun here...

Soccer at this level has little to do with sportsmanship, its about winning plain and simple. Manipulating the ref, use the yellow card rule to your advantage(tap the other team to death), and the old reliable: Materazzi them out of the game.

Although the terrorist line probably won't work here, perhaps "canal trash" or someting like that.

[GirlySports]

New Zealand 6-1 Solomon Islands

Yikes!

[polak]

Canada should apply to be moved into the OFC. Really any division besides CONCACAF would probably be an improvement for our odds.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

New Zealand 6-1 Solomon Islands

Yikes!

Not abnormal for OFC qualifying at all, NZ essentially has a free pass to the playoff with 4th in CONCACAF.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by valo403

Not abnormal for OFC qualifying at all, NZ essentially has a free pass to the playoff with 4th in CONCACAF.

BUT

Did you know that Tahiti are the OFC Champions? I just discovered this right now! They're going to the Confederations Cup in June!

[valo403]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

BUT

Did you know that Tahiti are the OFC Champions? I just discovered this right now! They're going to the Confederations Cup in June!

Which pretty much sums up what a joke the OFC is

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by valo403

Which pretty much sums up what a joke the OFC is

True..this is why I don't like the two-legged format that NZ gets to play.
It's bascially a 2-game crapshoot to make the World Cup.

I think they should bring all 4 teams to the host country and qualify there.

for example:
Iran
Canada
New Zealand
and Venezuela

play a round-robin for 2 spots in Sao Paulo in October 2013.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by valo403

It's not an either or situation, which you are somehow making it out to be, and what's with this 'think about the children' stuff?

Actually it can/should be. If we focused on developing players that would allow us to form a team that was skilled enough to deal with this kind of opposition on the pitch it would make the antics irrelevant. Also, the children bit is important because that is where the process starts.

Personally, I knew early skill development was important but actually seeing what young children pick up off the pitch has been eye-opening.

Originally Posted by valo403

Bottom line is that the team should be doing everything it can to win.

And we're failing them by not allowing them to win solely based on their footballing skill. Having to resort to silly antics is unacceptable considering the resources we have available and the bottom line is we shouldn't have to be resorting to them.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

True..this is why I don't like the two-legged format that NZ gets to play.
It's bascially a 2-game crapshoot to make the World Cup.

I think they should bring all 4 teams to the host country and qualify there.

for example:
Iran
Canada
New Zealand
and Venezuela

play a round-robin for 2 spots in Sao Paulo in October 2013.

That's interesting. What about something similar to a promotion play-off? That would include a seeding-factor that could help off-set the easier route that some lower ranked nations have.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Addick

Actually it can/should be. If we focused on developing players that would allow us to form a team that was skilled enough to deal with this kind of opposition on the pitch it would make the antics irrelevant. Also, the children bit is important because that is where the process starts.

Personally, I knew early skill development was important but actually seeing what young children pick up off the pitch has been eye-opening.




And we're failing them by not allowing them to win solely based on their footballing skill. Having to resort to silly antics is unacceptable considering the resources we have available and the bottom line is we shouldn't have to be resorting to them.

Good lord this is painful.

Please explain to me why this is an either/or situation.

Why must we stand around and let other countries beat us now through taking advantage of the opportunities for gamesmanship that the officiating affords in order to develop the talent to win without resorting to such tactics?

Your last words pretty much sum it up. Maybe we shouldn't have to be resorting to it, but the fact of the matter is that in the real world we do have to resort to it unless we want to continue to be outsiders.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

I know that it would be nice to be able to take a hard line, but I don't think that anyone would honestly want to say to Junior Hoilett "no thanks" if he decided today that he wants to play for Canada.

It bothers me that these plastic Canadians are so hesitant to play for the country of their birth, but I don't know if it would solve anything by slamming the door shut after a certain period of time. Until they declare themselves for another country, the CSA should stay in touch and keep the door open. But that doesn't mean hanging the hopes of the entire program on the hope that they'll say yes to Canada. Move on and work with what you've got, and make that decision when/if someone comes knocking.

Edit: But I fully agree that there is an element of delusion at play. Not so much for Hoilett (who knows what his real reasons are), but someone like De Guzman. Really? The Dutch? Good luck with that.

I just think that if you take the hardliner stance then it will be good for both the team and the organization.

If Hoilett and De Guzman changed their minds right now, what would that do to the loyal guys who have committed and played that get replaced?

I think if you accepted them on the team right now you might get 2 really good players, but you'd also potentially ruin your team dynamic and make the organization look like a bigger joke than it already is, not to mention if the team morale drops because of it you might even risk whatever potential success this team has.

Say what you want about the level of play that Canada has, I saw a pretty good team out there.

Its not just about having the best players, its about having the best possible team.

[Jimmy Stang]

Why does the Oceania region even exist? I know that sounds harsh, but even Australia has joined the Asian region. Oceania really just consists of a handful of Pacific Island nations. Would it not be better if they also joined onto the AFC and perhaps compete in a regional qualifier before getting thrown in with the rest?

Fittingly, at least, they don't even get a full, guaranteed berth into the World Cup. But I do wonder why they even exist. I suppose that a lot of the regional clout, politically, sits in New Zealand, and this is probably the path of least resistance for them to qualify. So why rock the boat?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Addick

That's interesting. What about something similar to a promotion play-off? That would include a seeding-factor that could help off-set the easier route that some lower ranked nations have.

I think the main differences is that promotional playoffs are for 1 spot and this would be for 2.

unless you want to make it a bigger wildcard tournament and make it 8-teams vying for 2 spots.. add the 6th african, the 14th european etc....

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

Why does the Oceania region even exist? I know that sounds harsh, but even Australia has joined the Asian region. Oceania really just consists of a handful of Pacific Island nations. Would it not be better if they also joined onto the AFC and perhaps compete in a regional qualifier before getting thrown in with the rest?

Fittingly, at least, they don't even get a full, guaranteed berth into the World Cup. But I do wonder why they even exist. I suppose that a lot of the regional clout, politically, sits in New Zealand, and this is probably the path of least resistance for them to qualify. So why rock the boat?

AFC already has 50+ teams, can't really fit anymore.

Also I think FIFA wants to develop this region. Give them at least a fighting chance. If you're Tahiti, the World Cup doesn't look so far away, just beat NZ and then one other team from another region.
For the 2015 Women's World Cup, OFC gets 1 full berth.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Locke

I just think that if you take the hardliner stance then it will be good for both the team and the organization.

If Hoilett and De Guzman changed their minds right now, what would that do to the loyal guys who have committed and played that get replaced?

I think if you accepted them on the team right now you might get 2 really good players, but you'd also potentially ruin your team dynamic and make the organization look like a bigger joke than it already is, not to mention if the team morale drops because of it you might even risk whatever potential success this team has.

Say what you want about the level of play that Canada has, I saw a pretty good team out there.

Its not just about having the best players, its about having the best possible team.

I don't disagree with you. I actually like our team right now - they all seem to fit well together. And I could see the response to Hoilett or De Guzman suddenly showing up now or in the hex being "oh - so now you want to be Canadian." I totally agree.

I guess my only real issue is the timing. I wish that these guys would have declared themselves before the qualifying cycle got to this point. Before this latest round would have been fine by me. But now we're getting to the point where someone like Hoilett appears to be sitting on the fence and seeing which of his two "options" makes the hex, which I think is phony and shortsighted.

I guess the entire argument is moot until, if ever, Stephen Hart actually has to make that decision as I think that you are right about disturbing the dynamic at the worst possible time. Right now, there is no decision to make and I like what I am seeing from the team.

[nik-]

They would just need to put it to the players themselves in a vote, and if the result isn't overwhelmingly in the welcome them back camp, you don't do it. As crappy as that is for the chances.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

AFC already has 50+ teams, can't really fit anymore.

Also I think FIFA wants to develop this region. Give them at least a fighting chance. If you're Tahiti, the World Cup doesn't look so far away, just beat NZ and then one other team from another region.
For the 2015 Women's World Cup, OFC gets 1 full berth.

Fair point, but even a reorganization of the AFC into two, more balanced regions (including incorporating Oceania) would probably serve everyone better. I know that change doesn't happen easily at FIFA, but you've got one massive region bordering a micro region - it would make sense to amalgamate things and even things out.

The development argument is valid, but this can be partially addressed by having preliminary rounds, regional qualifiers, etc. against a more varied opposition instead of the same handful of teams.

Either way, even though I hope that Canada's path doesn't need to go through Oceania, it is nice to know that there's at least a chance to do so if they finish 4th in the hex. If they make it, of course. I don't want to count the chickens yet, so to speak.

[polak]

We need to stop talking like we're already in the Hex.

We lose today and suddenly we're not in that great of shape.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

I don't disagree with you. I actually like our team right now - they all seem to fit well together. And I could see the response to Hoilett or De Guzman suddenly showing up now or in the hex being "oh - so now you want to be Canadian." I totally agree.

I guess my only real issue is the timing. I wish that these guys would have declared themselves before the qualifying cycle got to this point. Before this latest round would have been fine by me. But now we're getting to the point where someone like Hoilett appears to be sitting on the fence and seeing which of his two "options" makes the hex, which I think is phony and shortsighted.

I guess the entire argument is moot until, if ever, Stephen Hart actually has to make that decision as I think that you are right about disturbing the dynamic at the worst possible time. Right now, there is no decision to make and I like what I am seeing from the team.

I don't know if it's phony. It's a big decision. If Hoilett chose Canada before this round and they crashed and burned, he's out internationally for the whole of 2013 and who knows how long. He's stuck.

If Canada makes the hex he gets TEN more matches plus a chance at the biggest stage. I understand Hoilett more than De Guzman who's just an idiot.