Kirk Cameron Attacks Stephen Hawking

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

They went ahead and a prayer in the rehearsal ceremony. That's the bullying part. Then they cheered like is was a sporting contest.

And it's a very good law.




Because he doesn't have to?

Can you call it bullying when he threw the first punch? He picked this fight.

And it is a very bad interpretation of a good law.

[photon]

Don't worry, Sarah Palin will get the constitution changed after she's elected president, then no more pesky objections to theocracy.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Can you call it bullying when he threw the first punch? He picked this fight.

And it is a very bad interpretation of a good law.

The school district "threw the first punch" by choosing to illegally include a Christian prayer as part of the graduation ceremony. The student was merely defending his rights as defined by the US constitution and Supreme Court rulings.

[photon]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I've linked to that ruling at least three times in this thread already.

Whoops lol. Did you do this one?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/99-62.ZS.html

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by transplant99

yep...those you dont agree with are all inbred hicks.

Mind boggling to me that the "enlightened" can still spew this nonsense.

Are all those African tribes that sing and dance to their gods "inbred hicks" as well?

What about the VAST majority of African Americans who attend baptist churches in the South? Inbred...all of them?

How about the mosques who fill up with faithful Muslims multiple times a day and have prayers repeatedly? All just a notch above neandrethal man as well?

Unreal.

Churches and mosques aren't public schools. Try to keep up please.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by photon

Whoops lol. Did you do this one?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/99-62.ZS.html

Awesome...

The District argues unpersuasively that these principles are inapplicable because the policy’s messages are private student speech, not public speech. The delivery of a message such as the invocation here–on school property, at school-sponsored events, over the school’s public address system, by a speaker representing the student body, under the supervision of school faculty, and pursuant to a school policy that explicitly and implicitly encourages public prayer–is not properly characterized as “private” speech.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Whether you think the law is a bad one or not is irrelevant. By holding a public Christian prayer (rather than a private moment of silence in which students can pray to any religious deity they want or choose not to pray at all), the school is illegally violating the constitution. End of story. The fact that you and others don't like the law doesn't mean it's not legally enforcible. The atheist student is 100% in the right in this case as determined by a Supreme Court ruling 20 years ago. The school district's own lawyers even acknowledge that the kid is right, hence why they were forced to remove the public prayer from the graduation ceremony.

Note that the atheist is not preventing the other students from praying to themselves or gathering for an optional prayer session outside of the graduation ceremony. He's not violating their rights to peacefully assemble and practice their religion. On the other hand, by forcing prayer on him, his rights to religious freedom are being violated.

As the expression goes, your rights end where mine begin. I have the right to not be subjected to religion by representatives of the government; you do not have the right to have the government support your religion via enforced prayer at a taxpayer-funded event.

Of course you embrace this interpretation of the law. It agrees with you. 4 of the justices opposed restricting prayer at this event. Justices die or retire. Hopefully this will be revisited before too long and corrected.

You keep protraying this kid as a victim. He isn't. He wanted to cause a stir and thumb his nose at his peers and the people in authority in his life:
Mission accomplished! Now he can deal with the fallout.

[photon]

Some people need to learn the silver rule too, not just the golden rule.

Though it seems the students and parents mostly adhere to the iron rule.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Of course you embrace this interpretation of the law. It agrees with you.

You're projecting.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Of course you embrace this interpretation of the law. It agrees with you. 4 of the justices opposed restricting prayer at this event. Justices die or retire. Hopefully this will be revisited before too long and corrected.

Oh, I see how it is. Because the Supreme Court ruling didn't go your way, you think it's invalid and will eventually be revisited and overturned. Good luck with that. Until such a day comes (and I highly doubt it ever will), officials of the US government must comply with the ruling.

You keep protraying this kid as a victim. He isn't. He wanted to cause a stir and thumb his nose at his peers and the people in authority in his life:
Mission accomplished! Now he can deal with the fallout.

He's a victim because the government was attempting to violate his constitutional right to religious freedom. He fought back and defended his rights, forcing the school to back down because they were absolutely in the wrong as determined by their own lawyers.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

The school district "threw the first punch" by choosing to illegally include a Christian prayer as part of the graduation ceremony. The student was merely defending his rights as defined by the US constitution and Supreme Court rulings.

No they didn't. They were doing what they have always done and has been acceptable at every graduation.

Atheist boy decided to use this bad interpretation of the law to pick a fight with his community. Now he has got one.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

You keep protraying this kid as a victim. He isn't. He wanted to cause a stir and thumb his nose at his peers and the people in authority in his life:

Did god tell you this or can you read minds?

[Thor]

My graduation from high school is this Friday. I live in the Bible Belt of the United States. The school was going to perform a prayer at graduation, but due to me sending the superintendent an email stating it was against Louisiana state law and that I would be forced to contact the ACLU if they ignored me, they ceased it. The school backed down, but that's when the ####storm rolled in. Everyone is trying to get it back in the ceremony now. I'm not worried about it, but everyone hates me... kind of worried about attending graduation now. It's attracted more hostility than I thought.
My reasoning behind it is that it's emotionally stressing on anyone who isn't Christian. No one else wanted to stand up for their constitutional right of having freedom of and FROM religion. I was also hoping to encourage other atheists to come out and be heard. I'm one of maybe three atheists in this town that I currently know of. One of the others is afraid to come out of the (atheist) closet.
Though I've caused my classmates to hate me, I feel like I've done the right thing. Regardless of their thoughts on it, basically saying I am ruining their fun and their lives, I feel like I've helped someone out there. I didn't do this for me or just atheists, but anyone who doesn't believe in their god that prayer to Yahweh may affect.
Moral of the story: though the opposition may be great, majority doesn't necessarily mean right. Thank you for reading. Wish me luck at graduation.
EDIT: Well, it hit the fan a couple hours ago. They've already assembled a group of supporters at a local church and called in the newspaper. I've had to deactivate my Facebook account and I can't reason with any of them. They refuse to listen. The whole town hates me, aside from a few closet atheists that are silently supporting, which I don't blame them looking at what I've incited here. Thanks for the support though.
If anyone would like to offer support, the superintendent is who I emailed and the school's website is mpsb.us
Thanks for the support. It's really helping. This has just gotten sickening.

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comm...for_prayer_at/

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Can you call it bullying when he threw the first punch? He picked this fight.

You're absolutely right. Fights often start when someone stands up for themselves.

And it is a very bad interpretation of a good law.

That law protects every American.

[photon]

Getting away with something equating to it being acceptable certainly isn't a Biblical principle.

[MarchHare]

No they didn't. They were doing what they have always done and has been acceptable at every graduation.

Prayer at public school graduations hasn't been acceptable since 1992. They've only been doing it until now because nobody has complained.

Atheist boy decided to use this bad interpretation of the law to pick a fight with his community. Now he has got one.

I'm amused by your continued insistence that this is a "bad interpretation of the law." What legal qualifications do you have that makes you believe you're more of an expert on the US constitution than the justices of the Supreme Court?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Churches and mosques aren't public schools. Try to keep up please.

And none of those people are inbred hicks...keep up please.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Atheist boy decided to use this bad interpretation of the law to pick a fight with his community. Now he has got one.

Isn't the "correct" interpretation the one determined by courts?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Oh, I see how it is. Because the Supreme Court ruling didn't go your way, you think it's invalid and will eventually be revisited and overturned. Good luck with that. Until such a day comes (and I highly doubt it ever will), officials of the US government must comply with the ruling.

And until that day comes civil disobedience should and will be practiced. A bad ruling by the Supreme court shouldn't limit folks religious expression.

Originally Posted by MarchHare

He's a victim because the government was attempting to violate his constitutional right to religious freedom. He fought back and defended his rights, forcing the school to back down because they were absolutely in the wrong as determined by their own lawyers.

So you concede that atheism is a religion? Because I was under the impression that he didn't have a religion to violate. Perhaps Atheism is the "unreligion" and you folks see it as your mandate to stifle all other religious expression. Because that is more believable then your contention that atheist boy was going to be harmed by a little public prayer. One thing is clear; your unreligion is full of real intolerance.

[photon]

"Do unto me as I would have you do unto me."