2011 MLB Season Thread - Page 23 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

dustyanddaflames · 09-20-2011, 03:22 PM

I remember when that was all shaking down, and Kevin Kennedy saying that Matt Cain would be a future Cy Young winner.

You're right NoCups, it wouldn't have made much sense at that time to acquire another starter, especially with the group of young starters the Blue Jays had in their stable. Halladay looked, at that time, like he would be a Jay for life, and McGowan and Marcum were flirting with perfection. The ceiling of the Jays' rotation was awfully high at that point. Burnett - blah, never liked him and never liked him from the start.

Who would have know Rios would fall flat? I don't know if anyone could have pegged that happening. Guy was an elite athlete, could go 20/20 easily every year it appeared. Regardless if he progressed, which everyone thought he would, his numbers while peaking were satisfying.

VERVE · 09-20-2011, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

I think the rumour was the Giants may have dangled Lincecum with the plan of swapping in Cain at the last minute after talks had progressed, but either way it is pretty much agreed that the Giants were never going to move Lincecum for Rios.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoCupsIn40Years

Yeah that decision sure looks bad.

But in hindsight, I would've hated JP even more if he made that trade.

Rios was on the cusp of becoming elite and particiapted in the HR derby. He was going to be our future superstar and I really don't know how he declined that much. I would've been upset if he was moved for a pitcher who most scouts pegged him in as a future Mark Prior with injury issues.

At that time we also had an elite rotation of Halladay-Burnette-McGowan-Litsch-Marcum. It would've made no sense to move an all star RFer for an unknown commodity.

The Jays wanted Cain but Giants were more willing to let Lincecum go. The Giants wanted a big bat to replace Bond but were thinking hard about the trade. The part of the media wanted it but at the end Giants decided not to go ahead. They learnt from their past mistakes of letting young pitching talent go too early and this time they made the right choice.

The Jays had 3 definite fine starters but I do not feel Marcum and Litsch were elite to be untouchables. It was a gamble worth trying.

troutman · 09-20-2011, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VERVE

The Jays wanted Cain but Giants were more willing to let Lincecum go. The Giants wanted a big bat to replace Bond

Cain hit a monster home run in Denver on the weekend!

bluejays · 09-20-2011, 04:40 PM

Man I'm glad the Lincecum deal didn't go through...it would have bought 3 more years for Riccardi.

VERVE · 09-20-2011, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

Man I'm glad the Lincecum deal didn't go through...it would have bought 3 more years for Riccardi.

It is puzzling when Ricciardi was hired, it was thought that since he was with the Oakland As' and Billy Beane was his boss and friend, J P was supposed to bring with him the knowledge and practice of sabermetric principles (the algorithms behind Money Ball). Instead JP gave out crazy contracts that overvalued players and overpaid them. He did have some good signings and some bad ones. Bautista was a good acquisition and B J Ryan's contract, Overbay, Wells, etc were bad ones.

moon · 09-20-2011, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VERVE

The Jays wanted Cain but Giants were more willing to let Lincecum go.

Do you have reports of that or know who was saying it because every report I have heard says that there was no way Lincecum was in the deal or that he was talked about at first but that was just a ploy and the plan was always to flip Cain and keep Lincecum. (The last one came from Ken Rosenthal.)

Every time the supposed Lincecum deal is brought up everyone immediately shoots down the idea that the Giants were going to move him.

VERVE · 09-20-2011, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

Do you have reports of that or know who was saying it because every report I have heard says that there was no way Lincecum was in the deal or that he was talked about at first but that was just a ploy and the plan was always to flip Cain and keep Lincecum. (The last one came from Ken Rosenthal.)

Every time the supposed Lincecum deal is brought up everyone immediately shoots down the idea that the Giants were going to move him.

I have heard/read in the media and sportscaster during the baseball 2007 winter meetings that there was a possibility of Rios for Cain but perhaps Lincecum was the preferred choice of trade by Giants. I think JP wanted Cain though. Never came across a plan such as a ploy to flip Cain and keep Lincecum but who knows what really transpire behind back room deals. A combination of media and MLB source followed the story, a couple of examples,see below:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...y=hotstove2007

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakam...bly-will-make/

bluejays · 09-20-2011, 09:14 PM

^ Wow. That second SF blog was pushing so hard for the Lincecum deal to go through. I don't blame the guy, but looking back on something like that, it seems totally ridiculous and really kills your credibility.

VERVE · 09-20-2011, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

^ Wow. That second SF blog was pushing so hard for the Lincecum deal to go through. I don't blame the guy, but looking back on something like that, it seems totally ridiculous and really kills your credibility.

Yes. Like looking back at your yearbook years later and reading what you wrote and your first response would be "I can't believe I actually said those things...(?)"

troutman · 09-20-2011, 10:38 PM

Bochy WTF? Biggest game of the year, and you play mostly kids?

VERVE · 09-20-2011, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troutman

Bochy WTF? Biggest game of the year, and you play mostly kids?

Lincecum didn't get much support either from panda and beltran (although he did get on base twice) but then again it was Kershaw they were facing. Tough loss. The Giants' future is abit bleaker but Atlanta has been playing poorly however, the Cards have an easier schedule of remaining games then Giants (I think). It could be interesting hopefully going down to the wire...

dustyanddaflames · 09-21-2011, 07:54 AM

I believe Kershaw is now 4-0 when going up against Lincecum this season.

troutman · 09-21-2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VERVE

Lincecum didn't get much support either from panda and beltran (although he did get on base twice) but then again it was Kershaw they were facing. Tough loss. The Giants' future is abit bleaker but Atlanta has been playing poorly however, the Cards have an easier schedule of remaining games then Giants (I think). It could be interesting hopefully going down to the wire...

Why were Sandoval, Keppinger, Belt, Huff, Fontenot on the bench to start the game? Crazy. Who needs a rest with 9 games remaining?

Lincecum got zero or one run of support in 11 of his 13 losses.

VERVE · 09-21-2011, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troutman

Why were Sandoval, Keppinger, Belt, Huff, Fontenot on the bench to start the game? Crazy. Who needs a rest with 9 games remaining?

Lincecum got zero or one run of support in 11 of his 13 losses.

I get what you mean. Perhaps it was a combo of resting while preparing for the long haul of the post season and or infusing some energy from the younger guys. I can see that if you have the pennant all wrapped up but not while you are fighting for a playoff spot (wc or pennant). I know the Yankees and BoSox brought in some talent from the minors ( 1 or 2) in early Sept.

Another weak guess is since the Giants have a lousy record vs Kershaw, perhaps bringing in unkown bats from the Giants maybe a slight advantage for the hitters (?).

Are those kids right handed batters? It may be a disadvantage to the lefthanded Kershaw with his breaking balls, just a stab...

fundmark19 · 09-21-2011, 02:49 PM

Wow rays blow lead and lose game 1 of double header. I am rattled JP howell is going to be joining Aybar playing in Edmonton next season

VERVE · 09-21-2011, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fundmark19

Wow rays blow lead and lose game 1 of double header. I am rattled JP howell is going to be joining Aybar playing in Edmonton next season

And now Boston after losing 2 games to the O's, will surely win the next game.

Is Edmonton's team a AAA? I thought it was AA.

RedHot25 · 09-21-2011, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troutman

Why were Sandoval, Keppinger, Belt, Huff, Fontenot on the bench to start the game? Crazy. Who needs a rest with 9 games remaining?.

Maybe he has actually figured out that beside Sandoval and Belt, the rest are...well....not so good to put it politely? Why Huff has been playing most of this season is beyond me to be honest...

Quote:

Originally Posted by VERVE

Is Edmonton's team a AAA? I thought it was AA.

It's neither - independent baseball.

troutman · 09-22-2011, 09:05 AM

Wild-Card Standings (Record last 10 games)

BOS - (3-7)
TB - 2.5 (4-6)
LA - 2.5 (5-5)

ATL - (4-6)
STL - 1.5 (8-2)
SF - 3.5 (9-1)

fundmark19 · 09-22-2011, 10:54 AM

Did I ever tell you guys that this post season baseball run has made me a very angry person!

VERVE · 09-24-2011, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troutman

Wild-Card Standings (Record last 10 games)

BOS - (3-7)
TB - 2.5 (4-6)
LA - 2.5 (5-5)

ATL - (4-6)
STL - 1.5 (8-2)
SF - 3.5 (9-1)

Some great divisional matchups for the wc esp in the American league. Tampa has a slim outside chance and BoSox are in tough against the Yankees. If BoSox lose and Rays win, it will be interesting.

The Braves are going to lose to the Nats but Cards have a slim chance at the wc (I think). Giants are too far back.