A Game of Thrones **BOOKS OFF LIMITS** v2

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I have no idea if this is all true. I do know the ice dragon was keeping Jon from going into the garden.

Yeah, looks like that's what happened, explaining Jon standing in front of the dragon yelling. It all lines up. Moment later a brush of air/wind, then arya flies out of the dark.

Initially that definitely isn't clear. Maybe showing a glimpse of the godswood from Jon's position would help. I wish they just gave us a full 90 minutes including Sansa and Tyion fighting the undead Starks that they cut (making their leap out from behind the tomb moment to finding the other survivors be less confusing).

[Manhattanboy]

One of the better reviews that does not hold back. Sums up my feelings of disappointment exactly. Everything was great about the episode, except for the writing. Benioff and Weiss blew it big time.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ga.../1100-6466520/

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by blankall

I disagree. Horses are tall enough that they can ride over top of the corpses. They would pound the whights into puddles beneath them. The Mongols managed to overcome heavy formations of armed knights and legions of Chinese soldiers. From a physics standpoint alone those half decayed whights way a fraction of what an armed person on horseback weighs.

Cavalry has limited galloping range, they can trot or walk for days but horses get blown fairly quickly at a full gallop and then they are short work for infantry

[1qqaaz]

I think it's obvious that a cavalry charge would have no effect undead.
Wights don't care if they have broken bones, they don't get concussions, the attack wouldn't come from dragon glass, and they don't have fear.

They probably should have had the cavalry run around to attack the white walkers.

Also, since they knew the Night King would come to Bran, they should have moved Bran to the Eyrie had the battle in the Vale. It would have been 100 times easier to defend. Nothing is worse than defending a city on the open plain (like Winterfell).

Speaking of the Vale, it seems like the vast majority of Dany's forces are knights of the vale. If anything, Sweet Robin should be in charge now. He's by far the longest reigning leader in Westeros.

[Baron von Kriterium]

Originally Posted by blankall

Houses at full charge generate a huge amount of power. An army of thousands of mounted Dothraki would have decimated the whights.

Ordering cavalry into the attack when you haven't determined the enemy situation is a maneuver known as the "Custer" and predictably ends in ruin for cavalry who engage in an unsupported frontal attack.

Alas, the cavalry charge was the least of the Allies' poor decisions in the execution of the defense. Dreadful! Historians will write text books.

Reconnaissance Plan? Nope.
Obstacle plan? Garbage.
2:1 Air Superiority? Wasted
Fires/Indirect Fires plan? ####e.
Siting infantry in front of an obstacle? With a choke point for withdrawal? I'm screaming at the TV.

Unity of Command? None!

There should be courts martial for the Allied planners as there aren't enough troops left to open up the South Front.

At the end of the day, though, the Allies met the aim. I suspect all along the plan was to leave everything in the hands of their best player - Arya Stark. Give her free reign to accomplish the aim. Historians will define this as the LeBron James Gambit.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by blankall

The Mongols managed to overcome heavy formations of armed knights and legions of Chinese soldiers. From a physics standpoint alone those half decayed whights way a fraction of what an armed person on horseback weighs.

The Mongols overcame their enemies with incredibly skilled mounted archery, not charges into massed infantry. They had small, swift mounts, not the kind that would charge readied infantry.

Very few historical cavalry will charge formed infantry. Those that did had huge mounts, specially trained, and they used lances. Even then they almost never charged head-on. The Dothraki use sickle swords, a useless weapon for anything except chasing light infantry off the field.

Clearly the Dothraki are meant to look and seem cool. But their armaments and tactics are completely ahistorical and defy any sensible military tactics. Not much point criticizing them.

[Matata]

The Dothraki blew up their reputation by only fighting below their weight class, their bread-and-butter seemed to be harassing small groups of defenseless people, the walled cities of the Eastern continent did not seem to fear them.

[AltaGuy]

Allies also made the odd choice of placing their artillery in front of their infantry.

The dothraki really should have been used as a flank once the wights engaged with the... artillery?... ah ffs.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The Mongols overcame their enemies with incredibly skilled mounted archery, not charges into massed infantry. They had small, swift mounts, not the kind that would charge readied infantry.

Very few historical cavalry will charge formed infantry. Those that did had huge mounts, specially trained, and they used lances. Even then they almost never charged head-on. The Dothraki use sickle swords, a useless weapon for anything except chasing light infantry off the field.

Clearly the Dothraki are meant to look and seem cool. But their armaments and tactics are completely ahistorical and defy any sensible military tactics. Not much point criticizing them.

I disagree on this. Mounted knights were unbeatable until the longbow. And the cavalry charge was commonly used to break formations of troops in the initial stages of battle.

Mounted bows aren't taking down formations of shielded soldiers. That's now for melee once the lines have been broken or against undisciplined groups of troops.

And the undead army was light infantry. Flaming sickle swords would've been great.

I do think that the way there Dothraki week is was a total waste though. It did have a lot of dramatic effect. It would have been cool though to see them used in the way there knights of the vale were in the battle of the bastard, except see them fail in the same flanking tactic.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The Mongols overcame their enemies with incredibly skilled mounted archery, not charges into massed infantry. They had small, swift mounts, not the kind that would charge readied infantry.

Very few historical cavalry will charge formed infantry. Those that did had huge mounts, specially trained, and they used lances. Even then they almost never charged head-on. The Dothraki use sickle swords, a useless weapon for anything except chasing light infantry off the field.

Clearly the Dothraki are meant to look and seem cool. But their armaments and tactics are completely ahistorical and defy any sensible military tactics. Not much point criticizing them.

There was a big part of the 8 seasons dedicated to developing the Dothraki storyline.

Then it was over in 2 min. Really strange.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by blankall

Mounted bows aren't taking down formations of shielded soldiers. That's now for melee once the lines have been broken or against undisciplined groups of troops.

Response in the All things general military thread.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Azure

There was a big part of the 8 seasons dedicated to developing the Dothraki storyline.

Then it was over in 2 min. Really strange.

Agreed. They were going to conquer Westeros and they were wiped out in 3 mins. But a severe narrowing of the story was inevitable at this stage of the series. Just not enough time to give every story expectation a satisfying resolution. And the flames going out was a pretty ####ing cool scene.

[Inglewood Jack]

there's just too many things technically wrong with the battle formation to really pick apart (everything lined up in reverse order, i.e. spikes/trench, infantry, artillery, cavalry, all outside of force-multiplying castle walls) so you kind of have to turn your brain off and get swept up in the drama.

but you don't even see a single wight on fire in the distance from that 30 second dothraki engagement. did not a single one of them successfully land a sword strike? or was the whole thing about wights being flammable not really applicable anymore? maybe that's why just laying themselves down on the fire trench worked, instead of creating a bigger fire like I would have expected.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Agreed. They were going to conquer Westeros and they were wiped out in 3 mins. But a severe narrowing of the story was inevitable at this stage of the series. Just not enough time to give every story expectation a satisfying resolution. And the flames going out was a pretty ####ing cool scene.

Well if you remember some of the complaints I had throughout this thread many of them involved the fact that they were dedicating excessive screen time to certain characters and storylines that were probably going to be irrelevant.

Turns out I was right.

[chemgear]

From this artist:

https://www.artstation.com/wisnutan

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

One of the better reviews that does not hold back. Sums up my feelings of disappointment exactly. Everything was great about the episode, except for the writing. Benioff and Weiss blew it big time.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ga.../1100-6466520/

Every one of his ideas are far more ridiculous than what actually happened and just fanboy fantasy slosh.

Why does the night king care about the throne to fly to KL? Why would he care about the affairs of men enough to do that? Would be out of his character when you actually think about it.

Him wanting to wipe out the history of men by eradicating his enemy for thousands of years is way more cool and actually in line with his character and history. Also consider that it's important he be within proximity of his army to navigate the forces through the traps WF had set up. They're controlled by him after all.

His demise at the hands of a trained assassin in his moment of greatest arrogance actually makes a lot of sense, was not predictable (even though this dude who probably never predicted wants to claim it is cause he's soooo smart).

#### that. I don't think that guy was going to be satisfied any which was it happened, and the story isn't even done being told, who's to say there isn't more to learn about the NK/WWs?

Feel free to jump off the bandwagon any moment and go watch whatever show is doing a better job of this kind of spectacle at this scale with this level of character development, if one exists.

[AltaGuy]

I'm really wondering how they deal with OP Arya at this point. She seems pretty unstoppable: Cersei is like an after-dinner snack compared to sneaking up on Death. I really hope they acknowledge it and don't ignore the character's proven abilities thus far.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

I'm really wondering how they deal with OP Arya at this point. She seems pretty unstoppable: Cersei is like an after-dinner snack compared to sneaking up on Death. I really hope they acknowledge it and don't ignore the character's proven abilities thus far.

Simple: you have her die while trying to do it again. Killed by Euron or something. Maybe crushed by the Mountain and then Clegane finds out and...AND..!!

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

Simple: you have her die while trying to do it again. Killed by Euron or something. Maybe crushed by the Mountain and then Clegane finds out and...AND..!!

That's a great idea. I bet you're wrong. Methinks Arya's gonna sit this one out with Gendry back in Winterfell because... whatever silly reason they come up with.

I do hope you're right though!

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

I'm really wondering how they deal with OP Arya at this point. She seems pretty unstoppable: Cersei is like an after-dinner snack compared to sneaking up on Death. I really hope they acknowledge it and don't ignore the character's proven abilities thus far.

I thought they did a pretty good job at making Arya vulnerable in the last episode. There were points she was clearly doubting herself, where she seemed scared & overwhelmed. She still is a flawed character to me, not some kind of indestructible force. Cersei also still has a sizable army at her command. The army of the dead had a massive weakness: the NK. I feel like it's going to be a fight to get to Cersei.