2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Red Slinger]

It seems to me that Rittich has been improving steadily under Sigalet while Smith is struggling. That would point to the player being the problem rather than the coach. I could be wrong though.

[habernac]

Plekanec to be waived

https://www.tsn.ca/habs-plekanec-to-...vers-1.1206911

Glad he got to play his 1000th game in Montreal, but I thought it was a mistake to sign him this season. Good luck to him wherever he may end up.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Chad Johnson...Brian Elliott...Jonas Hiller...

Yeah, the impressive rebound of all these goalies to their previous season’s lofty numbers after having been emancipated from under Sigalet’s tutelage does not instill much confidence that your argument should be taken very seriously.

Just get rid of the goalie coach. He might not be the cause of these declines, but he clearly is not getting improvements, and has to go...

Making a change “just because” is a terrible idea, and not an actual solution.


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[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Chad Johnson .920 in 45 games played in Buffalo a bottom dweller
.910 in his last year as a Flame

Brian Elliott .930 in 41 fames with the Blues
.910 in his last year as a Flame

Mike Smith .914 in 55 games in Arizona a bottom dweller
Sitting at .872 today

Bonus under Sigalet
Hiller .911 in 50 games in Anaheim
.879 in his last year as a Flame

Every single goalie has regressed under Sigalet, despite coming from much worse teams then the Flames at times.

Chad Johnson and Brian Elliott on paper was a great duo. .930 from Brian Elliot would have put him on the very top of the league in save percentage last year, higher than Crawford, Luongo, Rinne, Miller, MAF and tied with Raanta. Elliot was a quality goalie with some question marks at the time he was signed. He was certainly not a stop gap.

Let's stop blaming Treliving for underperforming goalies Just get rid of the goalie coach. He might not be the cause of these declines, but he clearly is not getting improvements, and has to go. I just laughed when we heard how Smith had a solid session with Sigalet, and the very next game lets in a softie in Anaheim.

In the two years since Elliott and Johnson has left, their numbers are:

Brian Elliott
2017-2018 43 GP, .909 SV%
2018-2019 11 GP, .899 SV%

Last season in CGY: 2016-2017 49 GP, .910 SV%

Chad Johnson
2017-2018 36 GP, .891 SV%
2018-2019 4 GP (small sample size), .919 SV%

Last season in CGY: 2016-2017 36 GP, .910 SV%

Elliott and Johnson haven't improved at all since leaving Calgary. Elliott has actually gotten worse (in the goalie graveyard that is Philly). It's hard to say because they only played one season with us, but MAYBE they were regressing in their careers regardless of whether Sigalet coached them or not.

Looking at Karri Ramo:

2012-2013 (season before he came over) playing the the KHL with Omsk, 40 GP, .929 SV %.

In his three seasons with CGY:
2013-2014 40 GP, .911 SV%
2014-2015 34 GP, .912 SV%
2015-2016 37 GP, .909 SV%

Then in 2016-2017, he went back to the KHL and in 18 GP, posted .930.

My conclusion with Ramo is that he was actually pretty consistent here in the three seasons, and also fairly consistent in the KHL. I don't know the relative conversions but maybe .930 SV% in the KHL translates to around .910 in the NHL.

The much hated Jonas Hiller:

Previous three seasons in ANA:
2011-2012 73 GP, .910 SV%
2012-2013 26 GP, .913 SV%
2013-2014 50 GP, .911 SV%

I know Hiller was AWFUL his last season here, but in hindsight, looking at these numbers, maybe Hiller was actually not very good to begin with. He actually has similar numbers with Ramo while in Anaheim, and we have for the most part treated Ramo like a 1B or backup. I think him playing on a very strong Anaheim team has to be taken into consideration, and when he came here, our team wasn't as good.

I'm too lazy to post his numbers since leaving the NHL and going to Switzerland, but in looking at his stats, he has lower or similar SV%s than names like Christobal Huet, Barry Brust and Reto Berra (who went back home this year).

Bottom line is this, and it's been posted by some others as well: yes our goalies have ducked, yes some of them regressed, but since moving on, no one have really showed bouncebacks after getting new goalie coaches on new teams. I'd conclude that maybe it's just the goalies themselves that are bad, or on the downturn in their career, and less so because of how Sigalet has coached them.

[habernac]

Plekanec retires.

https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2018/11/09...nate-contract/

[Toonage]

Turtlenecks at half mast

[Oling_Roachinen]

The decision, according to Bergevin, was mutual, and Plekanec’s $2.25M cap hit will come off the team’s books.

Plekanec isn’t sure what’s next, only that he wants to continue playing and will try to do so in Europe, possibly joining HC Kladno of the Czech Republic, the team that Jaromir Jagr plays for and owns.

Obviously being mutual put it's in a bit of unique situation. But "retiring" from hockey with the plan to play hockey, doesn't quite seem right that his cap disappears completely. Obviously Montreal doesn't need it.

Wait, it's a 35+ contract... (EDIT: Might be because it was one year, weird that capfriendly doesn't distinguish that).

[Bleeding Red]

So, am I understanding this right:
1- Goalie coach is doing fine since he is still here, just give him better players
2- every goalie in the Flames system is clearly no good - not even able to get to league average, regardless which league.
3- Only solution to to trade for either an established top 5 goalie OR another teams young unproven goalie.

So trade for Rinnie, Vasilevsky, gibson, andersen, dubnyk - we should be able tp pry one of them away without decimating the teams depth, right?

OR trade for another teams 3/4 string goalie hoping he will achieve better numbers than the young guys the Flames already have.


If your are not willing to make a high end trade (Tkuchuk for Rask or Dubnyk anyone?), or those high end goalies are not available, and teams are not willing to trade their goalies-of-the-future to you, then what option is there? Can't trade away every goalie - maybe try a new goalie coach? What's the harm?


(If 2019 free agency is the answer, then why not just run with Rittich and Gillies this year and see what happens?)

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

It seems to me that Rittich has been improving steadily under Sigalet while Smith is struggling. That would point to the player being the problem rather than the coach. I could be wrong though.

Or one, because of his relatively young age for a goalie, us still n the upswing of his career.

And the other, because of his age, has reached the point of diminishing returns and is in the twilight of his career.

[dammage79]

I am truly amazed that there are people out there that think the goalie coach is a part of the solution.

It's two parts goalies and one part goalie coach who cannot seem to keep his goalies heads on properly.

You change the goalies, the goalie coach who goes too. Plain and simple.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

So, am I understanding this right:
1- Goalie coach is doing fine since he is still here, just give him better players

No. The goalie coach may be good or he may not be. We don’t know, and any assertions one way or the other are mere guesswork. However, the fact that Sigalet has been here for a long time and survived multiple coaching changes does suggest that he may not be the problem.

2- every goalie in the Flames system is clearly no good - not even able to get to league average, regardless which league.

No. There are various reasons for explaining why several of the Flames goalies are struggling. The guys in the AHL may still be adjusting to coaching and personnel changes, but Parsons seems to be coming around. Rittich looks to have possibly taken a step this year. The big concern remains with Smith: has he regressed? Is this an extended funk? Was last year’s injury the final straw for him physically?

3- Only solution to to trade for either an established top 5 goalie OR another teams young unproven goalie.

No. A perfectly viable solution is to adjust the workload to give Rittich more starts until Smith’s performance improves. If the worst happens and both goalies struggle all season, then it is probable that this is a problem that is not solvable until the TD or the offseason.

If your[sic.] are not willing to make a high end trade (Tkuchuk for Rask or Dubnyk anyone?), or those high end goalies are not available, and teams are not willing to trade their goalies-of-the-future to you, then what option is there? Can't trade away every goalie - maybe try a new goalie coach? What's the harm?

It is harmful if it is not the problem. If it does not lead to improved results then it would also count as an organizational setback, to say nothing of unfairly terminating an employee for no good reason.




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[dammage79]

John Shannon
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Verified account

@JSportsnet
1m1 minute ago
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Don Sweeney says Charlie McAvoy has been in concussion protocol since October 18th. Sweeney also says Tuukka Rask has been granted a leave of absence and requested all respect the players’ privacy.


Wonder whats up with Rask?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by dammage79

John Shannon
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Verified account

@JSportsnet
1m1 minute ago
More
Don Sweeney says Charlie McAvoy has been in concussion protocol since October 18th. Sweeney also says Tuukka Rask has been granted a leave of absence and requested all respect the players’ privacy.


Wonder whats up with Rask?

Perhaps some sort of loss. It must be difficult to grieve under the scrutiny of the public.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No. The goalie coach may be good or he may not be. We don’t know, and any assertions one way or the other are mere guesswork. However, the fact that Sigalet has been here for a long time and survived multiple coaching changes does suggest that he is not the problem.


No. There are various reasons for explaining why several of the Flames goalies are struggling. The guys in the AHL may still be adjusting to coaching and personnel changes, but Parsons seems to be coming around. Rittich looks to have possibly taken a step this year. The big concern remains with Smith: has he regressed? Is this an extended funk? Was last year’s injury the final straw for him physically?


No. A perfectly viable solution is to adjust the workload to give Rittich more starts until Smith’s performance improves. If the worst happens and both goalies struggle all season, then it is probable that this is a problem that is not solvable until the TD or the offseason.




It is harmful if it is not the problem. If it does not lead to improved results then it would also count as an organizational setback, to say nothing of unfairly terminating an employee for no good reason.




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I tend to agree with you except where you believe the goalie coach isn't part of the problem.

I don't think the fact that he has survived multiple coaching changes means anything other than he's managed to stick around. to me it doesn't speak to how well he has done his job. Maybe there was nobody else available, or maybe the new coach just said: "screw it, I don't have my own goalie coach guy so i'll just keep him around" but to point to the fact that he sticks around as something positive is guesswork just as much as saying he is bad at coaching goalies.

results and facts lead to the truth:

and the truth is that, for whatever reason, goalies have not performed well under his tutelage. now to what extent is he responsible for that? that is guesswork, but we can assume its greater than zero.

Also, a couple weeks back Hrudey did a little 30 second thing about varlamov and his new goalie coach in Colorado who was doing some new and unorthodox things with him to get him seeing the puck better, using all white pucks, practicing with horse blinders on, etc.

And sigalet is one of the longest tenured goalie coaches in the league, which makes me think that potentially he isn't adapting or very cutting edge in his approach. The way he makes our goalies play so far back in their nets is worrisome given the recent equipment changes.

I'm not saying that sigalet isn't doing things like varlamovs coach during practice but I think a shake up is needed.

Its easier to fire a coach than to fire a player. which is why if there is some goaltending savant over in europe, I would be bringing him in for an interview asap

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

I tend to agree with you except where you believe the goalie coach isn't part of the problem.

I don't think the fact that he has survived multiple coaching changes means anything other than he's managed to stick around. to me it doesn't speak to how well he has done his job. Maybe there was nobody else available, or maybe the new coach just said: "screw it, I don't have my own goalie coach guy so i'll just keep him around" but to point to the fact that he sticks around as something positive is guesswork just as much as saying he is bad at coaching goalies.

It's clearly more than this.

We've all seen the work and attention to detail that Treliving gives all aspects of the team. Yet somehow you think he might have skipped this part of it? Somehow you think that's as likely as anything?

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Its easier to fire a coach than to fire a player. which is why if there is some goaltending savant over in europe, I would be bringing him in for an interview asap

Agreed, BUT over the last four years the Flames HAVE fired the player - 5 of them. Do they just keep going through goalies until they find one that is ready made to shine?

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

So yes, bringing in mediocre/aging goalie after goalie is not working. That leaves 3 options - go with what you have and hope (though both are FA at the end of the year so maybe an all new tandem next year.) - Make a big trade for a big name goalie - Try a new goalie coach.

Which of these is likely the easiest, cheapest, and least destructive to the whole team?

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by the2bears

It's clearly more than this.

We've all seen the work and attention to detail that Treliving gives all aspects of the team. Yet somehow you think he might have skipped this part of it? Somehow you think that's as likely as anything?

My GUESS is that treliving hasn't found anyone out there who he thinks is an instant upgrade on sigalet, which to me feels a bit like a "well is the grass any greener?" type approach. And i don't know Sigalet's contract status, whether he is year to year or has a multi-year deal in place but you would hope that there is someone better out there and that we are constantly looking

To me if you have just an average goalie coach, you will only ever have goalies who perform above average "Despite" the goalie coaching whereas you if you have an above average goalie coach, he can help pull average goalies up to being above average.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

I tend to agree with you except where you believe the goalie coach isn't part of the problem.

I don't think the fact that he has survived multiple coaching changes means anything other than he's managed to stick around. to me it doesn't speak to how well he has done his job. Maybe there was nobody else available, or maybe the new coach just said: "screw it, I don't have my own goalie coach guy so i'll just keep him around" but to point to the fact that he sticks around as something positive is guesswork just as much as saying he is bad at coaching goalies.

This is generally true, and I am sure I harbour my own biases. I am just not that keen to rush in and join the frothing Lynch mob.

results and facts lead to the truth:

and the truth is that, for whatever reason, goalies have not performed well under his tutelage. now to what extent is he responsible for that? that is guesswork, but we can assume its greater than zero.

It has been brought up several times now that Rittich seems to be doing just fine under Sigalet. It is and exaggeration to subsume all the Flames's goalies under the same rubric of failure.

Also, a couple weeks back Hrudey did a little 30 second thing about varlamov and his new goalie coach in Colorado who was doing some new and unorthodox things with him to get him seeing the puck better, using all white pucks, practicing with horse blinders on, etc.

And sigalet is one of the longest tenured goalie coaches in the league, which makes me think that potentially he isn't adapting or very cutting edge in his approach...

More pure baseless, vacuous assertions stemming from thin air.

The way he makes our goalies play so far back in their nets is worrisome given the recent equipment changes.

I think this is over-exaggerated, and it is not something that I have seen as especially different from how numerous other goalies in the NHL play the position. I am quite sure that Smith has always played deep, and in part this makes a lot of sense because he is so big. It's what big goalies tend to do. It is not something that has ever stood out as anomalous in Rittich's game. I could be wrong, but tend to think is more a product of confirmation bias than anything.

I'm not saying that sigalet isn't doing things like varlamovs coach during practice but I think a shake up is needed.

By "shakeup" am I to presume that you would welcome change for the sake of change? I am not about to suggest that goaltending coaches are not important—clearly, they are as evidenced by how many there are. However, in the list of things that make demonstrable improvements to a team's overall play, or in the disparity of skill and ability from one coach to another I tend to think that the impact a goalie coach has is pretty small. Also, in the list of things that fans are utterly clueless about, the performance of goalie coaches is very high. It is right up there with team trainers and therapists.

Its easier to fire a coach than to fire a player. which is why if there is some goaltending savant over in europe, I would be bringing him in for an interview asap

Yes, and that is part of the problem in my opinion. Fans want the goalie coach fired because it is easy. I am most concerned about whether or not it is the right thing to do. It may be, but I remain unconvinced mostly because I have so little information about the situation. We all have so little information—why are there such strong feelings from so many posters with so little information? I think the answer is obvious.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Yes, and that is part of the problem in my opinion. Fans want the goalie coach fired because it is easy. I am most concerned about whether or not it is the right thing to do. It may be, but I remain unconvinced mostly because I have so little information about the situation. We all have so little information—why are there such strong feelings from so many posters with so little information? I think the answer is obvious.

Yes, pretty much everything here is speculation with no insider knowledge (to the team or the position).


Here is what I think we know:
1- Tre is unafraid to make drastic changes even if things look good (firing Hartley a year after he wins the Adams; trading Hamilton the year he ties the league lead in goals for a d-man)

2- The Flames have change their NHL tandem 3 times in 4 years - using 10 different goalies in that time.



Is Sigalet the problem? maybe/maybe not. Is the current tandem the problem? maybe/maybe not. But, they have changed the tandem before. Sigalet doesn't seem to be part of the solution, and if you're not part of the solution.....



Hard is watching 8 bad goalies (jury still kind of out on GIllies & Rittich).
Time for easy.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

My GUESS is that treliving hasn't found anyone out there who he thinks is an instant upgrade on sigalet, which to me feels a bit like a "well is the grass any greener?" type approach.

This is likely true, or seems to be if Sigalet is merely average at his job. I honestly have no idea how to evaluate him.