Ongoing General Automotive Thread 2.0

[you&me]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

That's exactly what I talk about when I say that Consumer Reports, J.D. Power, et al. doesn't tell the whole story and why you should prioritize buying what you like over simply going by the numbers.

Look at the brands above the industry average and below. Three luxury brands above the line: Lexus (yawn), Genesis, and BMW. The rest of them overwhelmingly sit on the lower half of the bottom of the list.

Porsche generally is regarded as a very reliable brand, yet it's below the line. Mitsubishi is churning out hot garbage, and it's 6th place? Well, how much could go wrong with a Radio Flyer wagon that someone bolted a drivetrain and doors onto?

Land Rovers are complex vehicles; luxury vehicles are complex by design. There's simply more little stuff to go wrong with them. It doesn't mean you're going to be flat-decking it around any more than any other vehicle, but yeah, you might get a light on the dash because the f#$%ing TPMS sensors have lost connection for a split second or didn't wake up quickly enough upon starting the vehicle again. Or the module for the soft-close passenger doors got confused and thinks it's already shut. It's stupid little stuff, annoyances. But you aren't getting individual wheel-specific TPMS or soft-close anything on a papier-mâché Mitsubishi. or pretty much any other brand above that line (again, save for the luxury brands).

So charts like this generally tend to reflect, especially where premium/luxury brands are concerned, the complexity of the vehicles themselves compared to their non-luxury counterparts.

I mean, I have a thermoelectric fridge in the center armrest. Starting with room temperature bottled water and driving to Banff; 45 minutes and I have properly cold water. But if that fridge stops working, it isn't stranding me in town, it's just annoying. Nevertheless, it's another statistic just the same as if the engine started spitting connecting rods out the side of the block.

Agreed, and to further emphasize your last point, it's not just the complexity of the luxury vehicles, but the expectations of their owners.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by you&me

Agreed, and to further emphasize your last point, it's not just the complexity of the luxury vehicles, but the expectations of their owners.

And the seemingly disproportionate cost of repairs. Which you should know that you're getting into, but I'm sure it's hard not to have sticker shock on a $3k sideview mirror or $800 taillight.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by timun

#### you, AMCs were cool!

Very true.

[Fuzz]

You people are too easy some days.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

And the seemingly disproportionate cost of repairs. Which you should know that you're getting into, but I'm sure it's hard not to have sticker shock on a $3k sideview mirror or $800 taillight.

This is a point I make to people thinking they're "scoring a deal" on some depreciated luxo-barge... The cars depreciate, but the cost of the parts and (generally) labour to fix them do not... That's the same water pump of a $150,000 MB when new, even if the car is only $35k now.


That said, I believe JD Power & Consumer Reports track only the number of complaints and not the severity or cost to repair.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

And the seemingly disproportionate cost of repairs. Which you should know that you're getting into, but I'm sure it's hard not to have sticker shock on a $3k sideview mirror or $800 taillight.

Dealership labour rates are obscene, especially on luxury brands, so unless you're getting warranty work done or have a specific problem that your independent doesn't have a computer for, I drop the dealership as soon as the warranty expires.

Parts, well, bit of a mixed bag; you can usually score a second-hand part and not pay full dealer MSRP for the mirror or taillight. Or if there was any parts-sharing going on (FoMoCo and the Premier Automotive Group, Volkswagen AG and Bentley, BMW and Rolls Royce), you can get an identical part with a cheaper part number if it was part of the parent company's parts-bin.

Anyone looking at a bargain depreciated luxo-anything would be wise to get to know what parts-sharing went on for their particular vehicle and make sure they can source the parts, or be prepared to pay $200k vehicle servicing costs on their new-to-them 2006 Bentley Continental for $35k.

[zamler]

Ask any mechanic that works on multiple brands, for used especially out of warranty there is only one: Toyota. As boring as they are on balance they are by far the lowest cost vehicles to own. Caveat to this is Toyota is more and more going with turbo 4-cylinder engines this is going to decrease reliability and increase running costs. They will still likely be lower than any other auto maker but won't be at the same level as the ultra boring but bulletproof 4 and 6-cylinder engines of the past.

Having said that, I find Toyota and Lexus styling mostly hideous, don't like the interiors either. I've owned dozens of Toyota's I will never buy another one unless it is a 70's or 80's classic.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Wait, was that the car you came to my store in a few months ago? That's 14 years old? Looked sweet...I'm impressed.

Yessir - 2009 Outback with low km's. Trying to do some reasonable fixes here and there relative to its current value to keep things fresh. New/used car pricing is still too nutty for me.

[flames_fan_down_under]

I don't know much about cars, I have been getting my '19 Outback serviced by a Subaru dealer. It's getting more expensive every time I go. Are dealership services worth it in any form? Feel like I am getting ripped off.

[zamler]

Are you taking your car to a dealer yes/no

If yes you are being ripped off.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

I don't know much about cars, I have been getting my '19 Outback serviced by a Subaru dealer. It's getting more expensive every time I go. Are dealership services worth it in any form? Feel like I am getting ripped off.

Unless you purchased additional warranty, your 3 year / 60,000 KM warranty on your Subaru is long gone. Next time you're in, have the service advisor check if there is any Subaru Protection Plan warranty remaining. If not, then that should be your last trip to the dealership service department; start looking for independent garages.

If you still have warranty, that would be the only reason I would keep going. You do not need to use the dealer to maintain warranty coverage, but it's far less of a pain in the arse to do so.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Thanks for the advice. I bought it certified pre-owned so there was some warranty left on it because of that. But will confirm with the service guy next time.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

I don't know much about cars, I have been getting my '19 Outback serviced by a Subaru dealer. It's getting more expensive every time I go. Are dealership services worth it in any form? Feel like I am getting ripped off.

Subaru Calgary? If that's the case you most certainly are getting ripped off. They are the worst for trying to upsell and add work that isn't required.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by zamler

Are you taking your car to a dealer yes/no

If yes you are being ripped off.

Depends if it's for warranty purposes or not. I got extended warranty (CPO) on a vehicle years ago. It cost me around $1100 for 3 extra years or so. Thank goodness I did because it paid for itself 5-6x over because that car was cursed to the point where I swear I had a god damn lemon of a vehicle. #### broke on that that probably wouldn't break even on a ####ty car like a Lada.

Although... I needed a windshield early in the pandemic. No one had inventory at all for my model because it was so new. After going to half a dozen places (including places recommended here) dealership was the only option. I swear it was a coding error of some sort or they forgot to add labour, but it cost me $550 ish and it was a windshield with the advanced sensors in it. Even the service guys were calling the parts guys to confirm the price and then told me to take it and run. Probably the only time anyone has ever ripped off the dealership for any form of service or repair. Made up for the time I had to go to the dealership for the side window with the fricken radio wire integrated into it and it cost over a grand (No supply at any glass place). Then point stands, I'm only breaking even.

[Fuzz]

What is with people installing turn signal light strips under their tailgates? They all looks stupid and trashy, particularly 3 weeks after installation when the AliExpress LED's burn out in random fashion. It's also something the vehicle owner will never ever see in use. So do they do it for others to think they look cool? I guess 90% of them are on DODGE RAM PICKUP TRUCKS so trashy comes with the territory. But still, they are dumb.

[TorqueDog]

Personally, I’d never say anything to discourage a pickup truck driver from actually USING their turn signals. If they wanna make their truck look like a god damned space ship every time they hit the turn signal level, fine; at least they’re using the bloody things.

[Fuzz]

True, it probably does encourage them to use them every chance they get. Maybe BMW can make it a factory feature?

[monkeyman]

If you think AliExpress LED's have issues, wait until BMW implements them. Only you'll be paying 10x as much. To be fair, they probably wouldn't burn out, they'd probably just stop working or blink on the wrong side or turn on the interior light.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

If you think AliExpress LED's have issues, wait until BMW implements them. Only you'll be paying 10x as much. To be fair, they probably wouldn't burn out, they'd probably just stop working or blink on the wrong side or turn on the interior light.

And only if you subscribe to that feature in the first place

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

If you think AliExpress LED's have issues, wait until BMW implements them. Only you'll be paying 10x as much. To be fair, they probably wouldn't burn out, they'd probably just stop working or blink on the wrong side or turn on the interior light.

Automakers including BMW already have been using LEDs in tail lamps and marker / signal lights for a long time. And generally they aren't designed to be serviceable by the owner, meaning a burnt out signal = replacing a $1,100 tail lamp assembly.