Brad Treliving needs to go

[Icon]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I suspect we'll be looking at three straight offseasons here where the Flames' biggest forward additions have been Tyler Pitlick, Josh Leivo, and Milan Lucic.

There's patience, and then there's stasis.

Problem is this summer there just aren't amazing forward options to sign.

Coleman, Palmieri, Getzlaf, Hyman, Danault, Galchenyuk, Saad, Tatar, Granlund...

Not sure any of those would be any better than past years' attempts at having a big impact.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Icon

Problem is this summer there just aren't amazing forward options to sign.

Coleman, Palmieri, Getzlaf, Hyman, Danault, Galchenyuk, Saad, Tatar, Granlund...

Not sure any of those would be any better than past years' attempts at having a big impact.

Agreed, find a way to make creative trades.... Other teams are generating trades and making improvements.

At this stage, no more excuses for the Flames management

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

I believe “mandate is to compete without completely ruining your future” is such a cliche and a tag line for perpetual mediocrity.

In any sports team, I believe you should have 2 mandates:

1. We are in this to win at all costs.
2. We are building for the future.

Being stuck in the middle is what is truly ruinous for organizations. You can’t do both. You can’t try to win and build for the future. You’ll end up not doing either.

Exactly. Doing both is a terrible strategy in my opinion because as you're improving in areas, you're regressing in others. This team lost Brodie and Gio which was their top pair. Now guys like Gaudreau and Tkachuk are gonna need raises to stay which impacts your ability to fill out the rest of your roster. Or potentially they move on which is even a bigger issue. Next, Mangiapane is going to need a big raise. If you want to keep Lindholm and Hanifin these guys will need raises shortly. And a team like the Flames without bonafide superstars needs depth. I think they will lack the cap space and the assets to obtain solid depth. We've seen Brad use a lot of picks to try and add depth and this just hurts your prospect depth. So now we have less picks and also picks later in the draft. These types of players take time to pan out, if they ever do, and by the time they're ready their impact is either not significant enough or the team has already regressed where they are just improving the team enough to stay average. I just see the same cycle ahead unless some kind of miracle happens and they find a Point and Kucherov in the 3rd and 2nd round. More likely there is just slow regression until they lack most of the significant assets that could have been used to increase the odds of a succesful rebuild and reduce it's time.

But hey Go Flames Go.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Icon

Problem is this summer there just aren't amazing forward options to sign.

Coleman, Palmieri, Getzlaf, Hyman, Danault, Galchenyuk, Saad, Tatar, Granlund...

Not sure any of those would be any better than past years' attempts at having a big impact.

Most of these guys wouldn’t come to Calgary or aren’t Sutter players. Exception being Danault. Plays the game the right way. But would he come here?

What happened to all those balls in the air? We’ve got cap space, we need to weaponize it. Find a team in cap trouble and see if you can pull off a JT Miller type move to get a top 6 guy who might be buried in his current team. Or bite the bullet and send a lottery protected first for a top 6 player on a team looking to rebuild. But don’t bring back the same F core that has let us down repeatedly and try to sell us on them.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I suspect we'll be looking at three straight offseasons here where the Flames' biggest forward additions have been Tyler Pitlick, Josh Leivo, and Milan Lucic.

There's patience, and then there's stasis.

Doesn't that just reaffirm the need for the organization to start focusing on holding on to their draft picks and building through the draft? Free agency is mostly expensive junk and a lot of teams just aren't interested in Flames assets in trades and trading picks is what led to the prospect cupboard being bare in the first place.

[Lanny_McDonald]

For small market Canadian teams the draft and player development is the life blood. Flames need a transfusion and Treliving's asset management has not provided the flow of blood needed.

[direwolf]

Every team seems to be making moves and signings except the Flames. So far this is turning out to be one of the most boring off seasons in franchise history.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

For small market Canadian teams the draft and player development is the life blood. Flames need a transfusion and Treliving's asset management has not provided the flow of blood needed.

Ownership needs to be onboard with a patient draft and develop strategy. All evidence points to Edwards not being onboard. Especially when he’s trying to sell seasons tickets and box seats in a new arena.

[Lanny_McDonald]

What evidence would that be?

[chedder]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I see the pitchforks are out before free agency has even begun. It is going to be a long offseason...

7 years of mediocrity (aside from the lightning in a bottle bottle half season with crash back to earth playoff) will do that to a fan base.

Our motto should be 'the secret to happiness is low expectations'.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by chedder

7 years of mediocrity (aside from the lightning in a bottle bottle half season with crash back to earth playoff) will do that to a fan base.

Our motto should be 'the secret to happiness is low expectations'.

Not me, I will always be optimistic. So what if Tre doesn't overpay for some UFA's. So what if Tre doesn't make a bad trade to change the core. I think this is a good roster as is, there are a few holes that have to be addressed like a top 4 D and a backup goalie but I think this roster can compete with a full season under Darryl. I will always cheer for the positive outcome, I would rather do that then be bitter and down all the time about something that is supposed to be entertainment.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

For small market Canadian teams the draft and player development is the life blood. Flames need a transfusion and Treliving's asset management has not provided the flow of blood needed.

Hopefully this message has sunk in as we've had 16 picks over the last two drafts, and kept our 1st round pick the last three drafts.

The only option for Trelieving is to draft players that are pretty much forced to play here to start, or overpay UFA's. Even then you can get screwed by a high end player like Fox who is willing to hold out to become a UFA.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Hopefully this message has sunk in as we've had 16 picks over the last two drafts, and kept our 1st round pick the last three drafts.

The only option for Trelieving is to draft players that are pretty much forced to play here to start, or overpay UFA's. Even then you can get screwed by a high end player like Fox who is willing to hold out to become a UFA.

I don't think it has. Not when he continues to trade picks away for marginal talent and then allows high value players to leave without recouping anything of value. You have to maintain realistic expectations and make sure you have a sustainability plan for the future. Not maximizing the return on your most valuable assets means you have to rely on low quality returns from low value assets. It explains why the team is where it is at. The "lightning in the bottle" mentality holds this team back from making any traction in any positive direction, one way or another.

[Strange Brew]

If Treliving really has been shopping Monahan for a long time now, I wish we had extracted all the draft picks possible in a trade. Then either use them, or as capital in a trade. I don't get the fear of going into a regular season without Monahan on the roster.


Still hoping to be surprised this off season despite such little noise around the club.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Not me, I will always be optimistic. So what if Tre doesn't overpay for some UFA's. So what if Tre doesn't make a bad trade to change the core. I think this is a good roster as is, there are a few holes that have to be addressed like a top 4 D and a backup goalie but I think this roster can compete with a full season under Darryl. I will always cheer for the positive outcome, I would rather do that then be bitter and down all the time about something that is supposed to be entertainment.

So, you are dissenting on the topic of dissent?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

So, you are dissenting on the topic of dissent?

Exactly.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

So, you are dissenting on the topic of dissent?

^ And owning it

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

For small market Canadian teams the draft and player development is the life blood. Flames need a transfusion and Treliving's asset management has not provided the flow of blood needed.

He added another pick on the weekend ... so that's now +5 in pick/prospect assets in the last three years.

Hopefully he's learned.

However look at this topic .. just read three pages of fans upset because he's not doing anything, yet you're laying out (and I agree) that the path is to keep picks, draft well, and develop.

Luckily he's been doing all of those things for three years now.

The Flames are probably better off shopping this list after today and tomorrow are done. Let other teams blow their brains out.

It's not a desirable market, and it's not a desirable day to do business.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I don't think it has. Not when he continues to trade picks away for marginal talent and then allows high value players to leave without recouping anything of value. You have to maintain realistic expectations and make sure you have a sustainability plan for the future. Not maximizing the return on your most valuable assets means you have to rely on low quality returns from low value assets. It explains why the team is where it is at. The "lightning in the bottle" mentality holds this team back from making any traction in any positive direction, one way or another.

Do we have to list picks again?

This simply isn't the case in the last three years.

[Lanny_McDonald]

And he blew a pick in trading for Pitlick. Again, your +pick model is flawed because he gets mid-round picks and burns equal to better ones. Worse, he allows players that could recoup those high value picks (1sts and 2nds) to walk for nothing.