HBO's The Pacific

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

I think it's impossible to not compare the two - but also incredibly unfair to do so.

The fact that BOB set the standard for a WW2 story really set up the Pacific to do nothing but fail on expectations.

I'm really enjoying it - but like BOB I'm always left moved by the veteren interviews before the episode. It's pretty sobering listening to these men recount experiences which occurred 60 years ago and still be fighting back the tears. I know people who have lost children who aren't as scarred.

well they didn't see their kid with half their head blown off and a marine chucking rocks into the brain-goo (easily one of the most messed up things i've seen on TV). i've stopped trying to compare The Pacific to BoB, because really you can't. they were two completely different wars and the Pacific is trying to cram a much longer timeframe into the 10 episodes than BoB did. what i've gotten out of it so far is that the war in the Pacific was absolutely brutal, probably one of the ugliest conflicts in human history. the allies fighting in Europe had it relatively easy compared to the marines, they were fighting in the developed world and usually had access to clean water, food, and the odd shower. they were also facing a more "civilized" enemy that knew when to surrender

the worst we ever saw Easy Company take was Bastogne, but these last two episodes of The Pacific have seemed so much worse

[burn_baby_burn]

Peleliu was pretty brutal. Iwo Jima and Okinawa are going to be as brutal. I think the Marines had higher casualties on Iwo Jima than the Japanese. Although the overwhelming majority of Japanese casualties would be dead.

[Heckubus97]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

well they didn't see their kid with half their head blown off and a marine chucking rocks into the brain-goo (easily one of the most messed up things i've seen on TV).

No doubt. I actually had a nightmare from that, and the last time I had a nightmare from something I saw on TV was probably 9/11.

Overall, I too have noticed that lack of fluidity between episodes (and sometimes within episodes) that is one of the biggest differences between the Pacific and BOB.

I think that the larger time frame, and the high % of casualties inherent to this front in WWII are the real causes of this, and not the writing. The writers could easily just focus on the characters that made it through unscathed, and narrow the time frame to make this series less disjointed, but I do think that they are using the medium as the message here - by attempting to make the viewing audience feel some semblance of the soul crushing confusion and trauma experienced by these men.

[burn_baby_burn]

If have been reading a bit on the web about Iwo Jima since it is the focus of the next episode. I came across this website that has some decent information. It also has recent posts from Veterans who served in the battle of Iwo Jima. Interesting stuff.

http://www.iwojima.com/

[Komskies]

A bit off-topic, but still related to discussions that have taken place in this thread. On Tuesday, May 4 Saving Private Ryan will be available for the first time on Blu-ray:

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/produ...58b78e1ff1en02

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Heckubus97

No doubt. I actually had a nightmare from that, and the last time I had a nightmare from something I saw on TV was probably 9/11.

Overall, I too have noticed that lack of fluidity between episodes (and sometimes within episodes) that is one of the biggest differences between the Pacific and BOB.

I think that the larger time frame, and the high % of casualties inherent to this front in WWII are the real causes of this, and not the writing. The writers could easily just focus on the characters that made it through unscathed, and narrow the time frame to make this series less disjointed, but I do think that they are using the medium as the message here - by attempting to make the viewing audience feel some semblance of the soul crushing confusion and trauma experienced by these men.

A big picture review of first seven episodes of The Pacific today in the NY Post. A good commentary I thought.

http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainmen...RZk14LxfwSOmiK

Cowperson

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

A big picture review of first seven episodes of The Pacific today in the NY Post. A good commentary I thought.

http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainmen...RZk14LxfwSOmiK

Cowperson

I loved the comments.

It's too bad that the likes of a snot nosed kid like this writer just sees 'entertainment' rather than a telling of their stories that they rarely spoke of. What a G-D shame.

"The Pacific" is the best show, or movie (for that matter), to ever be made on warfare. It's as close to being there as you can get, without actually tying on a pair of boots, picking up a rifle and curling in a ball in the bottom of a fighting hole, hoping that the next mortor doesn't land on your friggin head.

What Kyle wants and what I suppose most audiences want but didn't get here is a Hollywood version of WWII, replete with colorful characters and lots of style.

If that's what you want Kyle go watch Inglorious Basterds or Bridge on the River Kwai or ten thousand other "war movies".

It's not a shock or a surprise that Kyle clearly missed the point of "The Pacific". Many, if not all, of the previous films and TV series about WWII focused on the sacrifice of soldiers for each other. The clear bond of brotherhood developed as men risk their lives for a single cause. But the Pacific does something different. The Pacific shows us how these boys faced war with wide eyed innocence and in a matter of minutes they went from 18 years old to 40. These marines and all soldiers sacrificed more than lives. They gave a youth that many of us take for granted. Tom Hanks should be praised for his efforts to reminds us all what bravery, heroics, and war really is.

It shows the reality of war and the effect on the soldiers who fight it. It doesn't need a strong main character. If Kyle wants a strong main character, perhaps he should consider the US Marine Corps in it's entirety as that character. Complaining about what The Pacific isn't seems like a lame way to disparage a riveting series that reinforces the basic tenet that "war is hell". To teach the viewers what life was like for the men and women on those beaches and in those jungles should be enough to satisfy the intellectual needs of writers like Smith.

[burn_baby_burn]

I have seen this image numerous times over the years in books about WWII. Until today I had no idea it was from Peleliu. Its called the 1000 Mile Stare.



I found it on this site that shows pictures of Peleliu today.

http://thewiredjester.co.uk/2009/04/...liu-1944-2008/

[CaptainCrunch]

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by Komskies

A bit off-topic, but still related to discussions that have taken place in this thread. On Tuesday, May 4 Saving Private Ryan will be available for the first time on Blu-ray:

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/produ...58b78e1ff1en02

Yup, FINALLY it is coming. I've watched it about 20 times on my laptop alone, can't wait for the Blu-Ray. That opening scene is going to be EPIC!

[Hemi-Cuda]

i've been a pretty big supporter of this series until now, but my god what a terrible episode. they open up talking about Iwo Jima, then 90% of the episode is some pointless love story with a small battle sequence at the end. it felt like i was watching Pearl Harbor all over again. i had to fast forward though several parts because i just couldn't take it anymore (a skipping along the beach scene? really?). if all they could have gotten out of the Basilone character was a good opening in Guadalcanal, a few boring celebrity status scenes, and this excruciating "finale", they should have left the character out entirely

i was set to buy this series on Blu-Ray after it was over, but this one part has soured me on the entire thing. i can't support Tom Hanks and Steven Speilberg taking the Michael Bay approach to war movies

[StealthOiler]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

i've been a pretty big supporter of this series until now, but my god what a terrible episode. they open up talking about Iwo Jima, then 90% of the episode is some pointless love story with a small battle sequence at the end. it felt like i was watching Pearl Harbor all over again. i had to fast forward though several parts because i just couldn't take it anymore (a skipping along the beach scene? really?). if all they could have gotten out of the Basilone character was a good opening in Guadalcanal, a few boring celebrity status scenes, and this excruciating "finale", they should have left the character out entirely

i was set to buy this series on Blu-Ray after it was over, but this one part has soured me on the entire thing. i can't support Tom Hanks and Steven Speilberg taking the Michael Bay approach to war movies

I'm a little surprised to see this reaction. Personally, I thought this was one of the best episodes of the series (second to last week's). The show took a look of criticism for its lack of character development, and they've done that and so much more in the last two weeks. Although I'm not much of a love story person myself, it was imperative to set the stage for Basilone's heroism and return to the battlefield. To me, it really invoked an emotional response that was, perhaps, lacking early in the series; and I'll be honest, I was a little choked up at the end.

Just my opinion, but I loved it. I can see why others wouldn't, though.

[3 Justin 3]

I think the general consensus is that Band of Brothers is better than? I think so at least. There has been so much boring dialogue this series, with Band of Brother's I could at least feel for the men, I just can't seem to with The Pacific.

I haven't seen this episode yet, only read the plot outline (why I avoided it right away), but damn. Another love story, I can't take 2 in the series, the one in episode 3 (I believe it was) sucked and was boring, but I got why they did it, but they had to do it again?!

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by StealthOiler

I'm a little surprised to see this reaction. Personally, I thought this was one of the best episodes of the series (second to last week's). The show took a look of criticism for its lack of character development, and they've done that and so much more in the last two weeks. Although I'm not much of a love story person myself, it was imperative to set the stage for Basilone's heroism and return to the battlefield. To me, it really invoked an emotional response that was, perhaps, lacking early in the series; and I'll be honest, I was a little choked up at the end.

Just my opinion, but I loved it. I can see why others wouldn't, though.

it just seemed like such an elaborate setup for Basilone's death, like they were trying to force the viewer to care about him. using a famous war hero like him for this series was a mistake from the start though i think, i never once felt any attachment to his character since his story is so well known and his involvement in the fighting and interactions with the other soldiers was so brief

The Pacific is just coming across as another Hollywood war story, using B grade actors with poor dialogue. Band of Brothers felt real and it never lost focus of what made it a great series, the bond between soldiers

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

The Pacific is just coming across as another Hollywood war story, using B grade actors with poor dialogue. Band of Brothers felt real and it never lost focus of what made it a great series, the bond between soldiers

I think The Pacific has been the exact opposite of another Hollywood war story. The makers wanted to tell the story through the eyes of three Marines. To try and portray to the audience what it was like to actually be at Guadalcanal or Peleliu. There has never been more elaborate or detailed battle scenes in any movie or tv series ever.

The story of John Basilone is extraordinary. His meeting and eventual marriage to Lena Mae after Guadalcanal and before his death at Iwo Jima is part of that story. Sure it would have been nice to have a few extra episodes about the Battle of Iwo Jima. Is it the writers fault that the character in the series who took part in that battle died in the first day?

If I could fault anything from last nights episode it would be that it was much to short.

[burn_baby_burn]

Here is the citation for the Navy Cross awaded to John Basilone posthumously for his courage at the Battle of Iwo Jima.

Navy Cross citation
The President of the United States takes pride in presenting the NAVY CROSS posthumously to
GUNNERY SERGEANT
JOHN BASILONE
UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS
for service as set forth in the following CITATION:

For extraordinary heroism while serving as a Leader of a Machine-Gun Section, Company C, 1st Battalion, 27th Marines, 5th Marine Division, in action against enemy Japanese forces on Iwo Jima in the Volcano Islands, 19 February 1945. Shrewdly gauging the tactical situation shortly after landing when his company's advance was held up by the concentrated fire of a heavily fortified Japanese blockhouse, Gunnery Sergeant Basilone boldly defied the smashing bombardment of heavy caliber fire to work his way around the flank and up to a position directly on top of the blockhouse and then, attacking with grenades and demolitions, single handedly destroyed the entire hostile strong point and its defending garrison. Consistently daring and aggressive as he fought his way over the battle-torn beach and up the sloping, gun-studded terraces toward Airfield Number 1, he repeatedly exposed himself to the blasting fury of exploding shells and later in the day coolly proceeded to the aid of a friendly tank which had been trapped in an enemy mine field under intense mortar and artillery barrages, skillfully guiding the heavy vehicle over the hazardous terrain to safety, despite the overwhelming volume of hostile fire. In the forefront of the assault at all times, he pushed forward with dauntless courage and iron determination until, moving upon the edge of the airfield, he fell, instantly killed by a bursting mortar shell. Stouthearted and indomitable, Gunnery Sergeant Basilone, by his intrepid initiative, outstanding skill, and valiant spirit of self-sacrifice in the face of the fanatic opposition, contributed materially to the advance of his company during the early critical period of the assault, and his unwavering devotion to duty throughout the bitter conflict was an inspiration to his comrades and reflects the highest credit upon Gunnery Sergeant Basilone and the United States Naval Service. He gallantly gave his life in the service of his country.[7]

For the President,
/s/ JAMES FORRESTAL
Secretary of the Navy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Basilone

[burn_baby_burn]

LA times article about the death of John Basilone, told by a Marine who knew him and was there when he was killed.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...,2802009.story

[FurnaceFace]

Prior to last week's episode we had watched an episode of BoB and after watching The Pacific it occurred to my wife the big difference between the two stories is The Pacific doesn't have the narrative BoB does. I think that helps provide some of the backstory and allows you to get more attached to the characters.

I did find last night's episode good. Sure there was a love story, but that didn't really bother me much like the Australian love story didn't bother me, as it's a part of war. Knowing Balisone was going to be killed didn't lessen the shock any and I still had a "that sucks" moment or two.

If anything was disjointed about last night was the 3 minutes of Sledge at the beginning. I kept thinking they were going to go back to him but never did.

I did go to bed wondering if I'd ever be able to have the courage to even get off the beach. I was left thinking if I wasn't dead I think I'd be huddled up in a ball like that private. I'm always amazed and impressed how in the face of withering fire men find the will to move forward even when death is a more likely outcome than living. For those moments of internal thought and reflection, I think the series is worth it.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

Prior to last week's episode we had watched an episode of BoB and after watching The Pacific it occurred to my wife the big difference between the two stories is The Pacific doesn't have the narrative BoB does. I think that helps provide some of the backstory and allows you to get more attached to the characters.

I did find last night's episode good. Sure there was a love story, but that didn't really bother me much like the Australian love story didn't bother me, as it's a part of war. Knowing Balisone was going to be killed didn't lessen the shock any and I still had a "that sucks" moment or two.

If anything was disjointed about last night was the 3 minutes of Sledge at the beginning. I kept thinking they were going to go back to him but never did.

I did go to bed wondering if I'd ever be able to have the courage to even get off the beach. I was left thinking if I wasn't dead I think I'd be huddled up in a ball like that private. I'm always amazed and impressed how in the face of withering fire men find the will to move forward even when death is a more likely outcome than living. For those moments of internal thought and reflection, I think the series is worth it.

For me the big difference is Band of Brothers was telling the story of Easy Company. The Pacific is trying to portray the experience of Robert Lechie, Eugene Sledge, and John Basilone. The Basilone character is a bit different from the other two since he never had the opportunity to write a memoir, (one that I'm aware of). So the basis of his character is not through his own words.

Look at the visual detail that has gone into a lot of the scenes. The beach landing at Peleliu for instance. They really go into a lot of detail from the jerk of the landing craft from when it first starts to move inside the ship. To the splash into the water off the ramp. Then a long slow assent onto the beach, with the Marines peering over the side to get a look at the upcoming action. To the Marines hunched down, griping their rifles in fear as they begin to be engaged by the enemy with shells blasting all around them. It really has been remarkable.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

i've been a pretty big supporter of this series until now, but my god what a terrible episode. they open up talking about Iwo Jima, then 90% of the episode is some pointless love story with a small battle sequence at the end. it felt like i was watching Pearl Harbor all over again. i had to fast forward though several parts because i just couldn't take it anymore (a skipping along the beach scene? really?). if all they could have gotten out of the Basilone character was a good opening in Guadalcanal, a few boring celebrity status scenes, and this excruciating "finale", they should have left the character out entirely

i was set to buy this series on Blu-Ray after it was over, but this one part has soured me on the entire thing. i can't support Tom Hanks and Steven Speilberg taking the Michael Bay approach to war movies

I think the part about the love story isn't merely emotional filler as was obviously the case with Pearl Harbor - but rather the love story in this case was what made John Basilone more than just a cardboard cutout of a hero. The love story in this case was put together very well in my opinion, it showed the human side moreso than any of the other episodes, at least featuring Basilone.

I can understand why people didn't like it but at the same time I felt that it was exceedingly well done and showed more of the human cost than any Michael Bay movie ever could.