63 Canadians killed after civilian airliner shot down.

[CaptainCrunch]

Is there a way that we can separate the Iran thread from the Israel thread? Or just shut this thread down and open a new thread around the airliner shootdown?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Is there a way that we can separate the Iran thread from the Israel thread? Or just shut this thread down and open a new thread around the airliner shootdown?

Cap ... Cap, just let it happen.

[2Stonedbirds]

All discussions on the middle east invariably end up devolving into a pissing match over the evil sheckle masters.
No point in even trying.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by peter12

There is a way people criticize Israel which has a particularly nasty and disingenuous tone.

The criticism of Israel and the criticism of Iran both tend to be based in shallow simple black and white opinions, right now Iranians are protesting, TV presenters are resigning on live TV and in free elections the population is electing moderate opposition to the regime, you know, the way people do in a complex evolving semi democratic semi authoritarian state where if we are careful and subtle we might actually be able to improve things but if we just bomb the crap out of things we will do the opposite.

But Iran is evil and if we just kill enough of them they will do as they're told is so much simpler

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by blankall

It's a myth that Israel was created just because of the holocaust.

Just a minor correction to your post that otherwise was very well written.

There is no myth that Israel was created just because of the holocaust. Instead, there is a lie that Israel was created just because of the holocaust, and the people that repeat this have been told countless times about the history of the creation of Israel, and they choose to continue the lie as it tends to support their argument.

This exact subject has been repeated on this very website with the exact same group of posters. There wasn't a single moment any of them stated a thank you for clarifying that point.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I see nothing anti semitic about afc's post. First this claiming anti semitism anytime Israel is mentioned in a negative light is becoming a bit of a meme. All countries are subject to criticism, full-stop. There is enough language in this thread about both the US and Iran that would constitute islamophobia or anti-whateverism if it were held to the same standards Israel is. Second, afc isn't even criticizing Israel. He's just pointing out that Muslims hate the west because of the creation of Israel. Whether or not they have a right to exist, isn't being debated by afc. It's the same way that one can state that the indigenous communities of Canada, or the US have a hate for the federal government.

One needs only read your post history to know what we are talking about.

I gave a definition of anti-semitism, debate that instead of the usual claim that anything anti-Israel is anti-semitism. Debate facts and details, and sure we can have a discussion, but that is very much outside your wheelhouse of smears.

There have been lies about Israel in this thread. And as usual, anything about the middle east is Israel's fault. That is somehow related to Iran blowing up a passenger plane, which many of you certainly would have denied even with video footage, except for the fact Iran finally admitted it. Now that they have admitted it? Blame Israel!

The sooner these countries take full accountability for their behaviour, treat minorities with respect, treat women with respect, treat neighbours with respect, the sooner there will be peace in the region. Blaming Israel just enables their authoricratic regimes, which makes me wonder sometimes if that is what some of you want.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Damn I had post 350 before Nage Waza was in here. Better luck next time.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Damn I had post 350 before Nage Waza was in here. Better luck next time.

Amazing how the same users show up and smear someone and half the posters here don't say a word. This is juvenile and really shows someone's bias.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Nah it's just you're like Beetlejuice with Israel. Israel gets mentioned, you show up. Like clockwork. Just a matter of when. So thanks for not disappointing I guess.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Nah it's just you're like Beetlejuice with Israel. Israel gets mentioned, you show up. Like clockwork. Just a matter of when. So thanks for not disappointing I guess.

Is he not allowed to post about something he’s passionate about?

Honestly, what a weird post to make.

[Senator Clay Davis]

He is, but it's just like Springs1 and ranch, it comes up and he's there. I'm more impressed by the commitment than anything.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Has Israel ever done anything wrong?

The answer to that really defines whether there is any point in further discussion with you on the topic.

Israel has established many great things in the region and is an obvious bastion for coexistence by middle eastern standards.

I think the better question is why don't people that want to debate about Israel actual debate? I am willing to discuss any subject, but with Israel, there are countless posters across the internet who have no interest in debate, only slander. That is the issue I call out. Israel, like every 'western' country, has certainly made mistakes, and many of us would like to debate that.

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

That said, this is not sports. You don't need to be on "Team Israel" and cheer all they do or be labelled an anti-Semite. I think Canada is great. I love living here. Wow are we ####ty about somethings though, and have a pretty ugly corners of our past. It's healthy to admit that. Watching any interactions of "settlers", the Israeli military and Palestinians shows some very clear missteps in creating further peace in the region by Israelis, and that shouldn't be brushed under the carpet. That doesn't mean you don't think Israel is illegitimate, nor does it mean you don't think that on the whole Israelis are a good people.

That really hasn't happened in this thread and the most common thing to see now is to protect anti-semites with the claim that all criticism is labelled anti-semitism. It is a cheap ploy. Discuss Israel without a bias or double standard, without repeating the usual lies is a good way to start.

Settlers aren't all of Israel, nor is a suicide bomber all of another group of people. Don't see that discussed here, but I am happy to. You will find that the posters DO NOT want to discuss it here and my post history includes me calling that out time and time again. Thanks though for bringing it up.

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

There are ####ty people everywhere. The group of ####ty people in Israel are really not helping with any overarching progress toward making peace with their neighbours. Their actions shouldn't be excused. Nor should the detract from the actions of the non-####ty Israelis.

Losers in Israel exist, just like every country. But Israel has been the side to bring about peace, and there is no debate on that. Israel's opponents would murder Israel as soon as they would dissidents in their own country. Israel's losers are often just a response to that.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Is he not allowed to post about something he’s passionate about?

Honestly, what a weird post to make.

He is, but historically he's so passionate, repetitive and unrelenting that any thread where he gets going on Isreal, may as well have the title edited to "Israel".

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Nah it's just you're like Beetlejuice with Israel. Israel gets mentioned, you show up. Like clockwork. Just a matter of when. So thanks for not disappointing I guess.

Oh wait, so the complaint is that a poster only shows up when there has been controversial statement made? Who would have thought? Did you notice other posters who have similar points of view as me did not receive the smears (like you made)? If you go through my post history (you won't, admit it) you won't even find I said something bad. I just expect truth in a debate

Your argument does not hold up and is intellectually dishonest.

In fact, you enter the same threads, add no value and just insult a poster.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

He is, but it's just like Springs1 and ranch, it comes up and he's there. I'm more impressed by the commitment than anything.

It's more like Iggy_oi and any post about unions, but Iggy's less balanced...

Anyway, I stopped posting in here when afc started his tirade about how "the west" was the real source of all the problems in the Middle East and I started having flashbacks to my arts undergraduate poli sci classes. The fact that this thread has subsequently been taken over by a discussion about the historical virtues and vices of Israel - a state that has nothing whatsoever to do with the thread topic - is telling in itself.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by jayswin

He is, but historically he's so passionate, repetitive and unrelenting that any thread where he gets going on Isreal, may as well have the title edited to "Israel".

Wait a second...I didn't bring up Israel in this thread, we all know which poster did. In fact, wasn't it to blame Israel for the tragedy of the plane being shot down?

More dishonesty in this thread.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Is he not allowed to post about something he’s passionate about?

Honestly, what a weird post to make.

It isn't weird, they (pretty much as a group) pop in to all these types of threads and go after those of us that debate their west is bad world view. Slander the user then you can silence their words. Pretty simple.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Wait a second...I didn't bring up Israel in this thread, we all know which poster did. In fact, wasn't it to blame Israel for the tragedy of the plane being shot down?

While this is true, even you have to admit you're basically an internet message board's version of a suicide bomber. If anyone says something stupid about Israel (which, if Israel is brought up, is basically guaranteed), you will inevitably appear and blow up the entire ####ing thread.

I say that despite the fact that I agree with some of what you've said in here, it's just sort of beside the point that the de-rail is so complete at this stage that the thing might as well be locked up and re-started.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

It isn't weird, they (pretty much as a group) pop in to all these types of threads and go after those of us that debate their west is bad world view. Slander the user then you can silence their words. Pretty simple.

How have you been slandered?

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

While this is true, even you have to admit you're basically an internet message board's version of a suicide bomber. If anyone says something stupid about Israel (which, if Israel is brought up, is basically guaranteed), you will inevitably appear and blow up the entire ####ing thread.

I say that despite the fact that I agree with some of what you've said in here, it's just sort of beside the point that the de-rail is so complete at this stage that the thing might as well be locked up and re-started.

This is a pretty bad post, calling me a suicide bomber? That is pretty lame. I didn't blow up the thread, we all know who did. And why should I sit back and say nothing? If it was something about LBGQ community, visible minorities or other issues, not a single person in this thread (besides one or two) would have condemned me. And you and I both know that.

The mods, as I have brought up in threads previously, and others have brought up in this, should stamp out the posts we both know are BS.