[PGT] Avs 6 Flames 2

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Shazam

According to you, all players are a sunk cost then, regardless of their play.

...no?

[GioforPM]

A take many will disagree with but I thought Neal's compete level was higher than a lot of his teammates. Maybe his skill isn't there (although I didn't think he made many bad plays) but he was at least on the boards and in front of the net.

I also think people who say Johnny is a victim of his linemates not doing anything are not watching closely. He has options, his linemates are going to the net. But he's getting repetitive, he's really peripheral right now and he's constantly cherry picking (someone said Monahan is clueless on defence but Gaudreau isn't even in the zone half the time). The top line made their early season success on two things - a great three man breakout and a lot of really good cycling pressure. Neither are being used right now. That's partially a function of teams tightening up their D (as they have been since the all star break). But it's also a function of just pushing through.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Mayo

I hate how all our speedy players are so small. Who's next, Matthew Phillips?

I realize the faster guys will generally be on the smaller side, but like 190-200lbs...we've got so many guys weighing in <170lbs and that just doesn't seem to cut it in playoff hockey anymore. Is it a different game than when St. Louis & Theo were able to compete?

Czarnik is tiny at 5'9" and 170 but Dube is listed at 5'11" and 187. That's not bad for a fast guy.

[Monahammer]

Hopefully the last two games haven't wrecked what was left of TJs trade value.

[Monahammer]

Johnny didn't play this cowardly or selfishly all season. It's definitely not a "theres only so much he can do" situation. If it is, then neal, prout, or Bennett should be able to fix that issue.

[belsarius]

I’m sure it’s been said but the first line needs some heart. The best forward on this team after three games has been Bennett by a mile. Guy is playing with his heart on his sleeve and is being rewarded playing with soft Jankowski and slow Neal. His intensity needs to be injected into that first line. They need a serious shake up and to move Bennett and Hathaway up the lineup to spark some life into some guys. And Brodie needs to sit behind Valamaki or Kylington, just a pylon against the speed of guys like Mackinnon.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I’m not pointing fingers at Peters but Bednar has at least one previous NHL playoff series under his belt. That could be a factor to date. I’m confident that Peters can adjust particularly with last change but the challenge will be to win another game in Denver with McKinnon unchained

It makes sense, Peters has never coached in the NHL playoffs before, so he's coaching what he knows. Problem is, the playoffs are a completely different beast and you have to play boring, tight checking, trapping hockey.

One thing I know for sure is, Monahan, Neal and Tkachuk are not the most fleet of foot skaters. So it may not be a good idea to keep these guys deep into the offensive zone while trying to defend the Avs' counter attack.

I'm glad the loss last night was an absolute ass kicking though. It wakes up the entire organization and forces necessary changes. I was hoping for changes after game 2, but I guess one more was required.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

It makes sense, Peters has never coached in the NHL playoffs before,

Not as a head coach, no, but he was on the bench for Detroit in the playoffs several years back as an assistant

[taxbuster]

After some reflection, a few thoughts on what the Flames are/aren't doing:

- O-zone blueline: they are overhandling the puck at the blueline...too many fumbles and trying to build ALL their offence from the back end. Isn't working b/c the Avs are pushing forward at the D on the line and forcing them to make faster plays...which the Flames D are simply not doing. They are far, far too slow moving the puck from the back to the front - same issue on the PP, which is why it's going nowhere.

- behind our net: again, similar to above, plays are too slow from the Dmen back there, with resulting pucks coughed up in great locations for the Avs. I love Hanifin, but he's a good example of taking too long to make a play; needs to execute way faster. I like Fantenberg as well, but he's slow. Steady, yes, but slow. Possibly too slow for this style of play?

- the 3M line: they have been pinned too often (although so has the #1 line) in their own end. Can't seem to break the cycle as no-one goes to the puck handler. Same issue on the PK allows the Avs all the time in the world to make plays.

The overall theme is similar: too slow making plays. The Flames have stopped their fast-moving game for a more thoughtful approach...this is not working as other teams have upped their speed and now are challenging the Flames more aggressively. This has been the trend since the ASG and you can see that Bednar has thoroughly diagnosed this. As a result the Flames are coughing up the puck at the O-zone blueline often, generating a raft of Grade A odd-men transitional rushes for the Avs.

Flames need to push the puck deep WAY more often, and work hard to keep it there. Not sure that is in this team's DNA....they are not the workboots team of 2004. They have more talent, but it seems like they have less ...

[Scary Eloranta]

I don't think Scotty Bowman himself could get this group going. They went into the fetal position in the first friggin' period! That's pathetic and I really don't see them changing thier stripes all of a sudden. Bennett looks like the only one who gives a damn, the rest are SO soft with Monahan, Jankowski and Brodie leading the way in new lows of softness and crappiness.

[Beninho]

Man it was hard to see Gio play like ass too. The Avs are making this team like bottom 5 fodder. Credit to them, Mackinnon is proving he’s a top.3 player. Flames stars proving that they may not be cut out for the playoffs. Tough to see, but they still are only down a game. They just got dominated everywhere it’s hard to be optimistic


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[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Gaudreau is a 150lb playmaker...he is an amazing player but needs help. It is what it is...

Real problem is the opposition already knows the game plan, get it to Gaudreau. So they defend accordingly. In actuality it should be Monahan who carries the puck up the ice and enters and exits the zones; but he's incapable of this so he defers to Gaudreau who has to do it from the wing position which is so much more difficult because he basically only has one option/direction (right).

You're right, Gaudreau is an amazing playmaker, really, he's as good as you can get in this league 5 on 5. But he needs someone else who can do the heavy lifting to keep defenders honest. Otherwise it'll just be the same old, double team Gaudreau, turnover, double team Gaudreau, turnover. It's been like this for years.

[sa226]

Problem is the neutral zone. It all starts there for the Flames. They generate a lot of offense from their neutral zone play.

Right now the Avs are uncontested through the neutral zone. The Dmen are backing way off giving the Avs a ton of time and space and the back pressure from the forwards is non existent.

Step one. Stop turning it over. Step 2 tighten up the neutral zone and they'll be alright.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Team goes nowhere without Gaudreau and Monahan producing at an elite level.

We will learn a lot about their ability to be the leaders of this team tomorrow night.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Man it was hard to see Gio play like ass too. The Avs are making this team like bottom 5 fodder. Credit to them, Mackinnon is proving he’s a top.3 player. Flames stars proving that they may not be cut out for the playoffs. Tough to see, but they still are only down a game. They just got dominated everywhere it’s hard to be optimistic


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I fully believe the Flames are capable of containing Mackinnon, it's just the defensive strategies that need to change. The one thing you can't give Nathan Mackinnon is the one thing we're giving him, speed. The Flames are allowing him all the time in the world to wind up and fly down the ice which forces every Dman to back up off the blue line and either fire it at the net or find the trailer like last night (Makar). No defenseman in the world, let along the Norris favorite, has a chance against this.

Change up the tactics, slow down the Avs by clogging up the middle and I think this team can still win this series. Screw up again though and it'll be lights out for this season.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by sa226

Problem is the neutral zone. It all starts there for the Flames. They generate a lot of offense from their neutral zone play.

Right now the Avs are uncontested through the neutral zone. The Dmen are backing way off giving the Avs a ton of time and space and the back pressure from the forwards is non existent.

Step one. Stop turning it over. Step 2 tighten up the neutral zone and they'll be alright.

Agreed, agreed, agreed. To me though, step 1, relax the forecheck so that the forwards aren't so deep and actually have a chance at coming back in time because right now, every rush looks a lot like a foot race between Mackinnon and the Flames forwards and we all know who's winning those races every time.

I honestly don't care how boring of a style we have to play at this point. I'd rather win the series than watch the 8th seeded Avs destroy our best season since 1989. This is all on the coaching staff right to develop the proper game plan right now.

[Teroy]

Can not believe the number of you who criticise his team mates for Gaudreau's failures. I don't care if he is small. He's the highest paid player on the team and he's a floater. This may be the best season he ever has. The other teams have figured him out. He's useless in the defensive zone, always cheating for a break away and spends too much time wandering all over the ice with the puck in the offensive zone. Pass the damn puck, at the least take a shot or dump it into the corner. When he coughs up the puck, at least be the first man back. Instead he coasts and waits for someone else to regain possession. The work effort of Czarnik and Mangiapane (also small guys) put him to shame. Have not been a fan of his from the get go.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Mayo

I hate how all our speedy players are so small. Who's next, Matthew Phillips?



I realize the faster guys will generally be on the smaller side, but like 190-200lbs...we've got so many guys weighing in <170lbs and that just doesn't seem to cut it in playoff hockey anymore. Is it a different game than when St. Louis & Theo were able to compete?

Theo and St.Louis had incredible strength for their size and used the middle of the ice.


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[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Team goes nowhere without Gaudreau and Monahan producing at an elite level.

We will learn a lot about their ability to be the leaders of this team tomorrow night.

I disagree, actually. The Flames are deep enough to be successful with Gaudreau and Monahan being average.

As a few others have noted, this whole series is being won and lost in the neutral zone.

When the Flames are at their best, they transition quickly from their zone, through the neutral zone, and into the offensive zone via short, quick passing. The upside to this, is that if a turnover does occur, since the passes are short, typically it is easy to clog up the neutral zone and recover the puck to start again.

The issue here, is that the Flames forwards are trying to do too much on their own, and are not supporting each other in layers. This leads to stagnant zone entries, easy recoveries by the Avalanche defense, and a quick transition the other way, as our forwards are left deep in the offensive zone, and are then chasing the play.

The result is that our defense is forced to back off, because the Avalanche gain the neutral zone uncontested, and with speed.

To be successful, the Flames need to play faster. Not skate faster, not hit more. They need faster decisions with the puck, and quick, short passes as they move through each zone.

All is not lost. The series is only 2-1. The Flames need to be playing on their toes, not their heels. And they need to stop with the stupid penalty parade halfway through the first period every game. Those have been absolute momentum killers this series.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I know why you think that, and am glad you are not the coach

Care to explain? O wait you are probably one of those people who think the Flames can do no wrong. Lets roll out the same lineup and make no changes to a lineup that's been dominated by the Avs for the majority of the first 3 games.