Canada Post likely will be locked out/on strike - July 2

[Slava]

^ I haven't read everything about this (as in all of the posts), but usually if you've been paying into a DB plan you get that (or what you've paid thus far). New entrants move to a DC plan and in general employees who are in both have assets in both and gain benefits from both when the benefits kick in.

Sure, for some people they're going to vote for the DB plan under any circumstance, and truthfully for the employee who is roughly 40-45 or older this is almost surely the best for them. Younger employees (say 20-40) are not as likely to want the DB plan because they might think that they're more likely to leave for another employer and not reap the reward.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Slava

^ I haven't read everything about this (as in all of the posts), but usually if you've been paying into a DB plan you get that (or what you've paid thus far). New entrants move to a DC plan and in general employees who are in both have assets in both and gain benefits from both when the benefits kick in.

Sure, for some people they're going to vote for the DB plan under any circumstance, and truthfully for the employee who is roughly 40-45 or older this is almost surely the best for them. Younger employees (say 20-40) are not as likely to want the DB plan because they might think that they're more likely to leave for another employer and not reap the reward.

With something that is defined in a collective agreement, like the pension plan, it is really only guaranteed for the term of that agreement, so any future changes would be voted on by all members, so both plan members, so take the current proposal, none of the future hires have a say on this new plan, only the current members who won't even be covered by it, but the next agreement, there could be 25% of the members on the new plan and 75% on the old plan, if the company put forward an amendment to increase the contributions with no benefit increase for the 25% of employees on the new plan in an effort to decrease the companies costs, and the 75% of employees on the other plan had nothing reduced and were happy with everything else in the contract offer, they could all vote in favour and the contract would be accepted and there would be nothing the 25% could do to stop the change.

When the number of new plan members inevitably begins to heavily outnumber the old plan members, there would be nothing to stop the company in a future round of bargaining from proposing that the defined benefit pay structure be changed(reduced) and since it doesn't affect the new plan members, if they liked everything else in the deal they vote in favour of the offer and cripple someone's pension when they are only a few years away from retirement.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Slava

I just don't know how effective work stoppage will be this time. If people are getting their essential mail, and for other items people will look at other means. I guess we'll see how impactful it is.

My son is getting pretty steamed waiting for the bey blades he ordered on Amazon to arrive.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

My son is getting pretty steamed waiting for the bey blades he ordered on Amazon to arrive.

I wouldn't blame that on a work stoppage that hasn't even started yet, maybe he should direct his blame at the parent who would rather see their son wait than to pay for overnight shipping

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

1. Wtf is a bey blade?
2. Amazon is shipping with purolator.

[Resolute 14]

Beyblades are still a thing?


Anyway, Iggy_oi - if, as Psytic says, Canada Post's management, non-union employees and all other unions it treats with have already agreed to move to a defined contribution plan instead of defined benefits, on what basis does CUPW deserve to be treated differently? Even as you try to argue against the concept of a two-tiered system, you are actually arguing in favour of one. One in which you, and only you, benefits.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Beyblades are still a thing?


Anyway, Iggy_oi - if, as Psytic says, Canada Post's management, non-union employees and all other unions it treats with have already agreed to move to a defined contribution plan instead of defined benefits, on what basis does CUPW deserve to be treated differently? Even as you try to argue against the concept of a two-tiered system, you are actually arguing in favour of one. One in which you, and only you, benefits.

They have every right to want something different then another group. This does not create two tiers, they are under 2 separate agreements and in two separate bargaining groups. I'm not sure when those other groups changed their plans, but is it not possible that maybe they've already seen some reprocautions from those other groups' decisions and are trying to avoid putting themselves in the same position? When you say it is to my benefit I don't really understand what you mean, I'm not a postal worker so I have gain in any of this.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

1. Wtf is a bey blade?
2. Amazon is shipping with purolator.

Purolator is backed up like crazy. No longer guaranteeing delivery times. The couple Puro guys I've talked to are pretty PO'd at the work stoppage.

My "one day" shipping item is now at 3, lost somewhere in the void.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think that the easiest thing to do is pass the pension over to the union to control, they can dictate to their members what's going to be removed from their paycheck to manage this thing, but that also means that the $6 billion dollar debt becomes the unions problem".

If the union thinks that have the solution, then let them execute it with a strong promise of no government help for the debt. If it fails it fails.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Purolator is backed up like crazy. No longer guaranteeing delivery times. The couple Puro guys I've talked to are pretty PO'd at the work stoppage.

My "one day" shipping item is now at 3, lost somewhere in the void.

I'd say the couple guys you've talked to are the exception, not the norm. Unless you mean they are PO'd about the fact that Canada post is choosing to lock the postal workers out rather than continuing to find a solution through bargaining.

I know a dozens of people who work at purolator, this has no negative impact on them at all, if anything they are happy with all the overtime they are able to get in a rough economy.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think that the easiest thing to do is pass the pension over to the union to control, they can dictate to their members what's going to be removed from their paycheck to manage this thing, but that also means that the $6 billion dollar debt becomes the unions problem".

If the union thinks that have the solution, then let them execute it with a strong promise of no government help for the debt. If it fails it fails.

Since contributions are made by both sides, if the union had full control, on which side do you think they'd choose to increase contributions?

[PepsiFree]

Who knows, maybe the guys I talked to are just the responsible ones? Each one was more upset that the huge influx of deliveries delayed time getting out of the facility and on with their days, thus delaying deliveries for customers.

Did I say a couple? I meant two dozen. Yeah...

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Beyblades are still a thing?

I didn't take this into consideration, but maybe his son has been waiting a VERY long time for this parcel...

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I wouldn't blame that on a work stoppage that hasn't even started yet, maybe he should direct his blame at the parent who would rather see their son wait than to pay for overnight shipping

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I didn't take this into consideration, but maybe his son has been waiting a VERY long time for this parcel...

Most of them ship from Japan. My kid isn't dumb enough to spend five weeks of allowance money on shipping.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Who knows, maybe the guys I talked to are just the responsible ones? Each one was more upset that the huge influx of deliveries delayed time getting out of the facility and on with their days, thus delaying deliveries for customers.

Did I say a couple? I meant two dozen. Yeah...

The responsible ones? So the ones who I know, who all show up for work and do what is asked of them everyday are the "irresponsible" ones?

How are they being delayed with getting in and out of the facility? The trucks only have so much space, when there is double the volume it has very little negative effect on the time it takes to load delivery truck, in most cases they load it more quickly since they have more product ready to be loaded as opposed to waiting to fill a truck that is half empty instead of sending it out half empty, which would increase transportation costs.

I wonder how those responsible employees you know feel about the current contract they work under at purolator and if their views would differ from the employees who I know.

Edit: Just wanted to add I truly appreciate you posting the feedback you received from these union employees, whether or not I agree with their perception of the impact on their jobs. If what you are saying is true, then it is a fantastic example to use in countering anti union people claiming "union workers are lazy and don't care about anything but themselves" as these workers are showing they are frustrated with their managements alleged poor judgement in taking on too much work and the negative impact it is having on their ability to work efficiently and in providing a quality service to their customers.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Most of them ship from Japan. My kid isn't dumb enough to spend five weeks of allowance money on shipping.

Maybe he and his siblings should organize and demand their parents cover the shipping costs as part of their compensation they receive in allowance for doing their chores?

Just for clarity. Any of my posts related to bey blade shipments should be read as if they were written in green text.

[PepsiFree]

I don't know, but you seem a little defensive over the fact that 3 guys aren't happy with the work stoppage and wish they'd get back to work so that their own job would return to normal ASAP.

I don't really care either way, and don't want to get into it with some anti-CP, Union shill.

I'd just like my overnight shipping to be overnight, not three days. Screw postal workers.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I don't know, but you seem a little defensive over the fact that 3 guys aren't happy with the work stoppage and wish they'd get back to work so that their own job would return to normal ASAP.

I don't really care either way, and don't want to get into it with some anti-CP, Union shill.

I'd just like my overnight shipping to be overnight, not three days. Screw postal workers.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Two days ago actually, I want it two days ago.

The best part is that it's a 2017 Calendar.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I'd say the couple guys you've talked to are the exception, not the norm. Unless you mean they are PO'd about the fact that Canada post is choosing to lock the postal workers out rather than continuing to find a solution through bargaining.

Yeah, sorry, but lockouts (and strikes) are part of bargaining. you are setting up an invalid either-or scenario. Perhaps the union should have worked harder at finding a solution at some point over the last seven months if it didn't want to find itself in this position.