2015-2016 Blue Jays Off-Season Thread

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

Lately a lot of players have been saying how much they love the city, maybe Price fell in love too. Estrada said his family didn't want to leave, and Donaldson just said how he loves the city and wants to play his whole career here. If Price stays this would be huge for the city of Toronto in general. We really need a winner after so many years of sucking at everything.

That's always been the case with the Raptors and Bluejays. Big American leagues filled with Americans that don't go to Canada in their lives until they're traded there in the NBA/MLB.

From what I've heard Toronto as a city absolutely blows most players away because they just honestly don't have an understanding of a) how similar your life is to living in America in many ways and b) how much better Toronto is than most cities in the US.

I read somewhere that many American ball players have kind of a 90's vision of Toronto and Canada - It's boring, cold, you're not in America, no one likes the sport you play. Then they get here and within a few months are just raving about the city and country.

So to sum up -

What they typically expect

No nightlife, boring Canadian city
Fans don't care about your sport
culture shock, they just want America because it's what they know

What they get

5th largest North American city
fans are there as much as any city if you're winning
tons of things to do
great country to raise kids in, very diverse and not much racism

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by jschick88

This makes me incredibly happy.

Robert Murray ‏@RobertMurrayBBE 1h
Source: David Price and his agent have made it clear that Toronto is "far and away" his top choice in free agency:

David Kaplan‏@thekapman

This is in line with what I am hearing. #DavidPrice

Kaplan does some sports talk stuff in Chicago and does Cubs pre and post game stuff on CSN. He also tweeted this today:

People that are surprised that Price likes Toronto may not realize support team gets + ownership group has huge $. Deal is far from done.

[Pagal4321]

Maybe I'm a pessimist but this seems like posturing to me and I think there's a 0.1% chance he would re-sign here. That being said, I would LOVE to be proved wrong on this one.

[jayswin]

As goofy as this is (and I know lots on this forum will laugh at this and think it's not true) Drake has actually done incredible things for the legitimacy of Toronto in the music/sports world. I've read a few times about how having one of the bigger mainstream hip hop artists break out in the States but totally rep Toronto has really changed perception down there amongst athletes/the hip hop community.

Before Drake it was generally accepted that if you were Canadian and into hip hop, you would try to downplay your origins as much as possible and try to just sneak into the scene as "American". Drake came along, started selling hugely down there, but kind of stunned everyone in the industry when he started not only mentioning that he was Canadian, but unabashedly boasting about Toronto and Canada. Specifically he started to going to Raptors games and becoming hugely involved with the organization.

Players around the league started to take notice and be like "What the hell? Maybe there's something to this".

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by jayswin

As goofy as this is (and I know lots on this forum will laugh at this and think it's not true) Drake has actually done incredible things for the legitimacy of Toronto in the music/sports world. I've read a few times about how having one of the bigger mainstream hip hop artists break out in the States but totally rep Toronto has really changed perception down there amongst athletes/the hip hop community.

Before Drake it was generally accepted that if you were Canadian and into hip hop, you would try to downplay your origins as much as possible and try to just sneak into the scene as "American". Drake came along, started selling hugely down there, but kind of stunned everyone in the industry when he started not only mentioning that he was Canadian, but unabashedly boasting about Toronto and Canada. Specifically he started to going to Raptors games and becoming hugely involved with the organization.

Players around the league started to take notice and be like "What the hell? Maybe there's something to this".

Yeah I agree, I think he has changed people's perceptions.

Toronto is great in the summer and in the winter Price can go back to the South and escape. I really hope he re-signs here.

Now I miss Toronto.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Toronto consistently ranks in a NBAPA pool as the City visiting teams Enjoy visiting the most. World class restaurants and night clubs, a celebrity hot spot, and a generally pretty safe city whose media is nowhere near as nasty as the LA/NYC/Chicago despite the rep they have here in Canada.

Winning and management has a lot more to do with it than playing in Canada. The Canada ignorance can easily be fixed by management educating players and prospective free agents. They've done a poor job of this over the years, but like someone said, Drake has helped.

Winning cures all though. Look at the Raptors. Resigning Lowry and signing Carroll this summer. There's no way A guy like Carroll signs in Toronto a couple years ago.

[TheAlpineOracle]

There's money to be paid in Toronto on endorsements that isn't available
Down south unless your name Kobe/Lebron/Trout.

Slightly above average can become household names. Look at Demar Derozan. If he played in the States, no one would know who this guy was. Look at Jerome Williams (JYD). He's still living off a couplle decent seasons in Toronto.

Bautista is making a fortune off of endorsements in Canada. He'd never be doing that playing on most of the teams down south.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

The thing that makes me hopeful is that this appears to be originating from Price's camp. It the past, it's been the Jays blowing smoke. I'm optimistic something will get done.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

The thing that makes me hopeful is that this appears to be originating from Price's camp. It the past, it's been the Jays blowing smoke. I'm optimistic something will get done.

I don't see how that makes it any more likely. Of course it's from Price's camp. For this to be leaked from the Jays side would be a strategically flawed move…it wouldn't make any sense. Why raise the fan base hopes when you're up against the biggest/most attractive markets in the MLB to sign him?

Unfortunately, I see this as a bargaining chip from Price's side and the incumbent team is being used to drive up the demand. It's been widely reported he's as good as gone from Toronto and Chicago his most likely destination. Coincidentally, today the leak from Chicago's side is that Price is commanding too much money and likely out of their budget range right now. To me it looks like there is a bit of a cat and mouse game going on between the Cubs and Price.

I'll be thrilled if I'm wrong, and maybe this is a refreshingly genuine gesture from Price's camp, so here's hoping that's the case.

[TheAlpineOracle]

I don't think this is coming from the Jays. This paints a bullseye directly on them to deliver and if they don't get Price, the expectation from their fans now will be to spend that money on someone else.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I don't see how that makes it any more likely. Of course it's from Price's camp. For this to be leaked from the Jays side would be a strategically flawed move…it wouldn't make any sense. Why raise the fan base hopes when you're up against the biggest/most attractive markets in the MLB to sign him?

Unfortunately, I see this as a bargaining chip from Price's side and the incumbent team is being used to drive up the demand. It's been widely reported he's as good as gone from Toronto and Chicago his most likely destination. Coincidentally, today the leak from Chicago's side is that Price is commanding too much money and likely out of their budget range right now. To me it looks like there is a bit of a cat and mouse game going on between the Cubs and Price.

I'll be thrilled if I'm wrong, and maybe this is a refreshingly genuine gesture from Price's camp, so here's hoping that's the case.

Price is getting paid. Period.

He doesn't need to negotiate through the media to jack up his value. Demand is incredibly high for aces, he knows this. There is literally no reason for him to leak this other than he's genuinely interested in returning to Toronto. Just my opinion of course, but Price doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who is big on empty gestures for the sake of them. He obviously still might not return, but I am about 100% more optimistic than I was yesterday.

I also really don't think he's trying to squeeze Chicago for a few million more, nor do I believe Chicago would balk at his demands over a few million. He's getting close to $30 million per year whether he signs in Toronto, Chicago or elsewhere. I really think this is going to come down to which situation Price is more comfortable with.

The Cubs may not be able to fit him in for market value as Epstein is quoted as saying he would like an ace but they won't overpay. That's fine... but it also likely means they won't get an ace.

As for Toronto not leaking stuff to the media, it's pretty much their M.O. when they're not actually interested in signing the guy. I find it encouraging that I've heard nothing but the Greinke whispers (never going to happen).

I predict he signs for 7 years $200m with the Jays, but I wouldn't be shocked if he chose the Cubs either, there's a lot of reasons for him to sign there too.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Price is getting paid. Period.

He doesn't need to negotiate through the media to jack up his value. Demand is incredibly high for aces, he knows this. There is literally no reason for him to leak this other than he's genuinely interested in returning to Toronto. Just my opinion of course, but Price doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who is big on empty gestures for the sake of them. He obviously still might not return, but I am about 100% more optimistic than I was yesterday.

I also really don't think he's trying to squeeze Chicago for a few million more, nor do I believe Chicago would balk at his demands over a few million. He's getting close to $30 million per year whether he signs in Toronto, Chicago or elsewhere. I really think this is going to come down to which situation Price is more comfortable with.

The Cubs may not be able to fit him in for market value as Epstein is quoted as saying he would like an ace but they won't overpay. That's fine... but it also likely means they won't get an ace.

As for Toronto not leaking stuff to the media, it's pretty much their M.O. when they're not actually interested in signing the guy. I find it encouraging that I've heard nothing but the Greinke whispers (never going to happen).

I predict he signs for 7 years $200m with the Jays, but I wouldn't be shocked if he chose the Cubs either, there's a lot of reasons for him to sign there too.

I wonder if maybe some teams are getting cold feet about committing that much money to an "ace" who has a spotty playoff record. Maybe that's why Price's agent would need to resort to some of these games.

I'm really not sure if I want the Jays to sign Price. He's going to take up so much of the payroll and not leave much else for the bullpen. I kind of want the Jays to go after Chen at half of Price's price, and use the other half to go after relievers.

I wouldn't be upset if the Jays signed Price, but I wouldn't be upset if they didn't. I just got a bad vibe about the relationship between Price and Gibbons after the Texas series when Price himself said the situation was "Weird". Sounded like he really wasn't too pleased about being used the way he was.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by 868904

I'm really not sure if I want the Jays to sign Price. He's going to take up so much of the payroll and not leave much else for the bullpen. I kind of want the Jays to go after Chen at half of Price's price, and use the other half to go after relievers.

I'll take Price over Chen + Relievers.

On the assumption that Chen will get roughly 50% of what Price will get (which seems like a fair estimate) I just don't think that Chen + FA Relief Pitchers will equal the performance value of Price + internal bullpen candidates.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Well, Jim Bowden from ESPN is reporting that despite what the reports are, he's been told by someone inside the Blue Jays front office that they are not going to be making a play on any of the top free agent pitchers. For reference sake, it Jim Bowden and Inside Pitch (XM Radio Show) that said the Jays had no budget increase allowed by Rogers and would not be adding anything at the 2014 deadline despite reports in the Canadian Media that the Jays would be active and were in on multiple big name additions.

I should have known to better than to get myself excited. There's the Jays we all know and love!

[Jason14h]

I wonder if maybe some teams are getting cold feet about committing that much money to an "ace" who has a spotty playoff record.

Most teams are worried about paying a pitcher whos 30 with that many innings big $$ for more then a few years.

Can anyone name one of these big deals for pitchers that actually worked out?

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Most teams are worried about paying a pitcher whos 30 with that many innings big $$ for more then a few years.

Can anyone name one of these big deals for pitchers that actually worked out?

There's not many out there, though these long don't go all the far back in history. Off the top of my head I can only think of three that worked out pretty good for their team over the course of their deal. Those would be Cliff Lee, Kevin Brown, and Johan Santana. It's looking like Verlander, Hernandez, and Hamels may turn out alright as well.

So, yeah, it's definitely a huge risk, but once and awhile you have to role the dice if you want to win. It's not like these are unmovable contracts. If you can move Vernon Wells' and Prince Fielder's contract, any contract can be moved. The Jays would have no problems moving Price's contract in 2-3 years, in fact, that would be the strategy I would prefer as a Jays fan. Use him for the next two years, and stock the cupboards again by moving him once we are truly not a contender.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Most teams are worried about paying a pitcher whos 30 with that many innings big $$ for more then a few years.

Can anyone name one of these big deals for pitchers that actually worked out?

One could argue that Zack Grienke has worked out for the Dodgers. Granted he was a bit younger when he started his deal. CC Sabathia was also alright the first year that the Yankees had him.

Really if you can get a 5 year big money deal and front load the first 3 years and give an opt out clause in hopes that Price will opt out just in time for the next team to jump in and overpay...that might be the best thing.

[Jason14h]

Those would be Cliff Lee, Kevin Brown, and Johan Santana.

Kevin Brown who won 60 games in 6 year for LA. BUT had some good numbers

Here's actually a funny article about Lee and Brown

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/03/sp...core.html?_r=0

Verlander has already had WAY below his standard years. It could be the worst of all them.

One could argue that Zack Grienke has worked out for the Dodgers.

It did because there was an opt out that he used before he got old. And he was signed fairly young.

Really if you can get a 5 year big money deal and front load the first 3 years and give an opt out clause in hopes that Price will opt out just in time for the next team to jump in and overpay...that might be the best thing.

100%. I guess the fear is if they stink they won't opt out, but even then it seems like some team would be crazy and pay anyways.

A 3 year Opt out for Price would be perfect.

[Harry Lime]

Kenta Maeda of the Hiroshima Carp has asked to be posted. The posting fee can't exceed 20M, and he is likely to command a salary of around 80M/5 years. Although not as dynamic as Yu Darvish, he is one of the top pitchers in Japan, and an innings eater. (27 years old)

His specialty seems to be a mix of playable contact and slightly higher than average strikeout rates. With a defense like Toronto's behind him, he could breeze through a lot of teams, and be a top of the rotation guy.

Always a risk in changing leagues, but a lot of success in Japanese pitchers in the past couple of years. Re-sign Muni as an interpreter.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Kenta Maeda of the Hiroshima Carp has asked to be posted. The posting fee can't exceed 20M, and he is likely to command a salary of around 80M/5 years.

To rich for my blood. 5/80 is probably reasonable from what I've heard about him but tacking on that extra 20 at the start pushes it out as a responsible option IMO.