Penn State football officials implicated in covering up on campus child rape by coach

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Actually, it seems everyone involved put the reputation of the football team above all those, and above the welfare of the children.

The motive of everyone involved in the cover up appears to have been to protect the football program. Severely punishing the football team is entirely appropriate.

The message it sends is that if you cover up something like this the damage to the football progam is going to be much worse than if they had done the right thing in the first place.

Agreed again

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by JayP

That's very well possible.

I just think that people are a little more rational and at least consider some of the potential consequences before acting. And in this case, going to prison for the cover-up would be far and away the biggest deterrent, IMO.

You would think so, and yet, it was not in this case.

Cover-ups happen because the people doing it truly believe they won't get caught. I doubt that Paterno or anyone else involved thought this would ever happen. They were too big. They were too important. Penn State Football was too big and too important. Everything else was secondary.

The NCAA said today that they were wrong. So Penn State becomes the poster child for what happens if you cover up the criminal actions of one of your staff to protect your legacy and brand. Not only will you likely see the wrong side of a jail cell, but you will utterly destroy both that legacy and brand anyway.

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Actually, it seems everyone involved put the reputation of the football team above all those, and above the welfare of the children.

The motive of everyone involved in the cover up appears to have been to protect the football program. Severely punishing the football team is entirely appropriate.

The message it sends is that if you cover up something like this the damage to the football progam is going to be much worse than if they had done the right thing in the first place.

I think your giving these guys far to much credit in terms of them working together towards a common goal of protecting the football program. I'm guessing it was more selfish reason that lead to everyone keeping quiet, since when faced with a situation like this people tend to look out for their own interest above anyone elses.

When Paterno first heard of the incident he probably went well here are my options. Do the right/moral thing and say something and probably get fired based on the fact that I hired the guy and public preception would probably be that I should have done something sooner/something to prevent it or say nothing and hope this blows over. When paterno's bosses found out about it they face a similar dilemma. Either way their name gets tarnished, they just took the easy way out in the hope that the story never saw the light of day.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

This makes no sense at all.

If I were to list the things that would make me think twice about committing this crime it would go:

1) I could go to jail
2) I could lose my job
.
.
.
.
.
.
3) I may hurt the reputation of the football program.

So, is "it would be a horrific thing to do to another human being" come in at number four or is it lower on the list?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

I think your giving these guys far to much credit in terms of them working together towards a common goal of protecting the football program.

And you are wildly underestimating just how the school treated the football program.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/15/us/tri...ate/index.html

"I know Paterno has so much power that if he had wanted to get rid of someone, I would have been gone," one janitor told investigators. "Football runs this university."


"If that's the culture at the bottom," Freeh told reporters, "God help the culture at the top."

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by Reaper

So, is "it would be a horrific thing to do to another human being" come in at number four or is it lower on the list?

I was talking about the purjury aspect of it, not the sexual abuse. And debating the fact that some posters seem to believe "the football teams reputation may be hurt" would be a bigger deterant than jail time or losing your job. Obviously these are not the only three things that come into play.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Actually, it seems everyone involved put the reputation of the football team above all those, and above the welfare of the children.

The motive of everyone involved in the cover up appears to have been to protect the football program. Severely punishing the football team is entirely appropriate.

The message it sends is that if you cover up something like this the damage to the football progam is going to be much worse than if they had done the right thing in the first place.

But what beyond vacating the wins has any affect on the people involved? So now as I football coach or AD, I know if I cover something up here are the repercussions if it breaks out:
- get fired
- go to jail (depending on the incident)
- have wins vacated
- school gets fined (who cares - I'm already fired)
- school loses scholarships (who cares - I'm already fired)
- school receives bowl ban (who cares - I'm already fired)

You could argue that Paterno is the special case where he would care what happens to the school after he's dismissed and in prison, but in the modern world of leap-frogging coaches the harsher parts of the penalties the NCAA handed out are irrelevant to the people involved. As from vacating wins (which absolutely no one takes seriously), the punishment falls on their replacements.

[Caged Great]

I hope the punishment basically destroys Penn State for the next 20-40 years.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I hope the punishment basically destroys Penn State for the next 20-40 years.

Oddly the University itself will likely be a better institution because of this. More oriented to learning than to gridiron.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by JayP

But what beyond vacating the wins has any affect on the people involved? So now as I football coach or AD, I know if I cover something up here are the repercussions if it breaks out:
- get fired
- go to jail (depending on the incident)
- have wins vacated
- school gets fined (who cares - I'm already fired)
- school loses scholarships (who cares - I'm already fired)
- school receives bowl ban (who cares - I'm already fired)

You could argue that Paterno is the special case where he would care what happens to the school after he's dismissed and in prison, but in the modern world of leap-frogging coaches the harsher parts of the penalties the NCAA handed out are irrelevant to the people involved. As from vacating wins (which absolutely no one takes seriously), the punishment falls on their replacements.

That's just such a narrow view to take on this "who cares, I'm already fired" because it ignores the value of a person's reputation with their peers & the community.

Sure, maybe you don't really care if you get fired, but would you feel the same if your actions (or inaction) caused your closest friends & family to get fired as well?

Think about your close circle of friends, the one's you'd hop in a car at 2:30am for after a single phone call. The one's you'd open your home to at the drop of a hat. Now imagine you betrayed all of their trust at once & caused irreparable damage to their reputation as well as their pubic/private life?

This isn't about punishing the guilty, it's about setting an example & sending the message that "no, our sport is not too big to fail, and there is limits to what you can do to succeed on the field".

[transplant99]

Gotta say i am impressed that NCAA did what they did, precedent be damned.

How anyone can argue tha this has nothing to do with the football program because its acriminal behaviour is plum loco. The reason the criminal behaviour was allowed to continue was BECAUSE it was happening in the football program. Had this happened in the english department, it probably would have been called in and dealt with on the spot, not 14 years later so that 60 million a year in revenue could continue to roll in. The NCAA has every right and responsibility to become part of the punitive measure directed towards not only the individuals involved, but also the orginization that allowed the abuse and subsequesnt cover up to continue for over a decade.

PSU can now take this time to start healing itself as an institution and as a community and start fresh in a few years, completely sperated from the cover up and those involved. Had no punishment been handed down by their governing athletic body, i doubt that would or could have occurred.

As someone mentioned earlier, this is now a springboard for the school to become what Paterno and the university preached for all those years. "Honor and integrity"

[Tinordi]

Yup.

PSU is rightly being made an example of. Let this be a warning to the rest of the NCAA, criminal/unethical behavior tolerated under the banner of sports programs and by virtue of that revenue raising for a university will not be tolerated. Full stop.

[chemgear]

http://gothamist.com/2012/07/23/bitt...s_punitive.php

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8191701

Interesting to see the reactions to the sanctions in the wake of the scandal and the subsequent cover-up. Even more interesting is to contrast to their reactions when Paterno was finally forced to resign; the swarming, cheering and chanting support on his lawn for covering up and enabling CHILD RAPE.

/facepalm

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by chemgear

http://gothamist.com/2012/07/23/bitt...s_punitive.php

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8191701

Interesting to see the reactions to the sanctions in the wake of the scandal and the subsequent cover-up. Even more interesting is to contrast to their reactions when Paterno was finally forced to resign; the swarming, cheering and chanting support on his lawn for covering up and enabling CHILD RAPE.

/facepalm

Yeah when this all came out and all the supporters on Paternos lawn and here he was rallying everyone about the next game... the senile old guy didnt get it. it is stillt oo bad he is dead, would have loved him to see his beloved statue taken down... burn in h*ll, Joe

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by JayP

What's good about it? Does banning Penn St. players from playing in bowl games and being competitive provide any justice or solace to the people affected by Sandusky & the cover-up?

I don't know? Do you know? I would guess it probably does. If some big institution covered up my getting raped by an old man, I would take some solace out of them getting humiliated and punished and would look to me like some measure of justice. I'd also get some satisfaction out of knowing its not going to happen again.

Originally Posted by JayP

I agree with the fines, but killing the football program isn't any measure of justice on anyone who's in the wrong - it's a symbolic action that shifts the focus on football instead of the real criminals.

That has to be the last thing the NCAA wants to do. The opposite of what they want to do. They don't want football in general to look bad. Why would they?

They had to do something. They can't put anyone in jail, so what should they have done?

[Resolute 14]

I like the tweets on the first story...

"What Jesse Palmer and others don't get is #PSU football players won't leave for bowl chances. PSU is tradition! They come for the school!"

Uhh, yeah, no. Those players came for the football program, just like virtually every college football player does.

[nik-]

The messed up thing is that Sandusky's biggest punishment is the knowledge that he destroyed his friend because of his actions and the inaction of his friend.

[MRCboicgy]

I'm wondering if he has a conscience for that, though.

I do feel bad for the current kids, but the fact is, they can go and play anywhere, without penalty and if they stay at PSU, their scholarships will be honoured. The people truly getting screwed are the 3rd string kickers that will be bumped because of a stud transfer linebacker or something.

I'm glad they didn't get the death penalty, because that would have negatively impacted the economy in Central PA, with no games, no 100K fans, 7 times a year. Yes attendance and spending may be down the next decade, but that's better than not having anything.

[killer_carlson]

I think they should be ripping out the showers and other facilities where the rape occurred.

Who would want to shower in the same spot he child was being sodomized at?

Take th bulldozer to the building

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I think they should be ripping out the showers and other facilities where the rape occurred.

Who would want to shower in the same spot he child was being sodomized at?

Take th bulldozer to the building

I think they already did that or are doing it. I don't know if they are tearing it right down, but definitely remodeling it and maybe changing the name.

I read something from a member of the family (Lasch I believe was the name) who the building is named after about how it was such a shame that his grandparents donated this building and now their name is connected to this awful scandal. That would be a real piss-off.

What a disaster. If they had just called the damn cops in 1998, we wouldn't even know who this creep is. He'd hopefully still be in the slammer. The story would have come and gone. The coach would still have his legacy (though slightly tarnished, I suppose) and all the wins and everything. The school would be fine...

This kind of thing hit the Leafs, the Broncos, and the Flames/Hitmen and they weren't taken to the cleaners.