Kirk Cameron Attacks Stephen Hawking

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

I hope in the middle of this Pow wow that they stop to say that they want to pray for the true god of (blah blah blah). Please make sure your kids take part and follow their beliefs as they completly contradict your own.
If you don't like it and it is offensive to your children tough beans you are a minority there and it really isn't hurting anybody.

Now imagine that everyday to an atheist.

I would think every single time a tribal band performs, it is in prayer to their gods.

Hardly offensive to me and I am am not First Nation in any way.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I would think every single time a tribal band performs, it is in prayer to their gods.

Hardly offensive to me and I am am not First Nation in any way.

I don't think the word offensive would be correct but again, imagine every single day/event, that tribal band performs and you must follow.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I would think every single time a tribal band performs, it is in prayer to their gods.

Hardly offensive to me and I am am not First Nation in any way.

Yeah.. but the First nations are performing the prayer to their gods. It is not like they are forcing the kids to take part in the performance.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

I'm glad I don't live in an inbred hick town like Bastrop Louisiana. Leigh Rodgers seems particularly inbred.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

I don't think the word offensive would be correct but again, imagine every single day/event, that tribal band performs and you must follow.

Again...this kid has the choice to follow or not...its one minute of time generally that those around you drop their heads and close their eyes to pray to whatever it is they pray for.

No one is forcing him to pray along with them, but he is forcing them not to be allowed to do so.

Yeah.. but the First nations are performing the prayer to their gods. It is not like they are forcing the kids to take part in the performance.

If you are at the assembly in questiopn...what choice do you have but to watch and listen? How is it any different from some schmuck going up to a microphone and reciting something in prayer to his god?

And furthermore....how is either one offensive or "stressing"? No one is making them participate in what is being said, no one is forcing them to believe in what others believe...period.

Funny, but I get the feeling that this tolerance thing runs one way only.

I say this as a completely secular non-religious guy. I envy those that find comfort in whatever they find comfort in and in no way do I believe my "rights" to not be part of there group, trumps their rights to feel and practice as they do. If its a problem...get up and leave...its called freedom to choose.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

I'm glad I don't live in an inbred hick town like Bastrop Louisiana. Leigh Rodgers seems particularly inbred.

yep...those you dont agree with are all inbred hicks.

Mind boggling to me that the "enlightened" can still spew this nonsense.

Are all those African tribes that sing and dance to their gods "inbred hicks" as well?

What about the VAST majority of African Americans who attend baptist churches in the South? Inbred...all of them?

How about the mosques who fill up with faithful Muslims multiple times a day and have prayers repeatedly? All just a notch above neandrethal man as well?

Unreal.

[photon]

Originally Posted by kirant

This is exactly what I meant (guess the word "world" wasn't really accurate).

Lol sorry, my bad!

Originally Posted by kirant

Larger than normal water flows (much like what we're seeing in Manitoba) in addition to the living patterns due to lack of easily transportable masses of water meant that the semi-floods, as you refer to them, which are really excessively swelling rivers, would act as a flood to the humans living at the time. I think many of the religious texts from the same region were describing the same swelling (and is what I meant in my post).

Agree, or even larger events like the formation of inland seas and stuff like that.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

I hope in the middle of this Pow wow that they stop to say that they want to pray for the true god of (blah blah blah). Please make sure your kids take part and follow their beliefs as they completly contradict your own.
If you don't like it and it is offensive to your children tough beans you are a minority there and it really isn't hurting anybody.

Now imagine that everyday to an atheist.

My children will attend and I don't have a problem with it. Like the graduation I don't think there will be any participation other than attendance. My boys know generally my opinion regarding the native religions. I just can't see it harming them to watch. They will probably come home with a story and maybe a few questions.

Now I've never let them go to the Pow Wow on the weekend. I also wouldn't let them pick an animal totem when they were encouraged to do so from school. Apparently I as their father was suppose to pick their Animal spirit.

The things that offend me I just withdrawl my children from. It is as simple as that.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Hesla

So you equate robbing a kid of his right to attend his graduation the same as not having them attend a pow-wow ..

Honestly, I am of the opinion the guy could have just sucked it up and gotten the hell out of that high school. The problem is that it was implied that everyone MUST pray.

Everyone doesn't pray even in church. The worst thing this guy would have to endure would be a few minutes of him looking around with others who didn't bow their heads.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Everyone doesn't pray even in church. The worst thing this guy would have to endure would be a few minutes of him looking around with others who didn't bow their heads.

Oh I agree that he could have done that (in fact that is what i would have done). The issue is not that people are praying in public, the issue is that it was asked of everyone to pray. It also seemed like he was being demonized for not praying.

If you were in Egypt and everyone started praying to Mecca, what would you think if you were told you had to bow down and pray to Mecca or face ridicule.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Prayer being used as a bullying tactic kind of defeats its original purpose, no?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Hesla

Oh I agree that he could have done that (in fact that is what i would have done). The issue is not that people are praying in public, the issue is that it was asked of everyone to pray. It also seemed like he was being demonized for not praying.

If you were in Egypt and everyone started praying to Mecca, what would you think if you were told you had to bow down and pray to Mecca or face ridicule.

As a christian I run into that here. I don't believe in repetitive prayers. I also don't believe in a priesthood that is special or separate from the priesthood of all believers. I question anyone whoes salvation is based on works or who denies the deity of Christ. There are many folks within my community I wouldn't pray with because I believe them unsaved. Often times these are the ones who are asked to pray. I politely stand or sit there until they're through. That's what I did last remembrance day. No big deal.

If prayer offends you don't bow your head or close your eyes. Problem solved.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Again...this kid has the choice to follow or not...its one minute of time generally that those around you drop their heads and close their eyes to pray to whatever it is they pray for.

No one is forcing him to pray along with them, but he is forcing them not to be allowed to do so.

If you are at the assembly in questiopn...what choice do you have but to watch and listen? How is it any different from some schmuck going up to a microphone and reciting something in prayer to his god?

And furthermore....how is either one offensive or "stressing"? No one is making them participate in what is being said, no one is forcing them to believe in what others believe...period.

Funny, but I get the feeling that this tolerance thing runs one way only.

I say this as a completely secular non-religious guy. I envy those that find comfort in whatever they find comfort in and in no way do I believe my "rights" to not be part of there group, trumps their rights to feel and practice as they do. If its a problem...get up and leave...its called freedom to choose.

I get what your saying, there is no doubt he could have just shut up like most atheists and other non christians do, would have saved a lot of trouble.

There is much more to this however, firstly the law prohibiting this in public school. School shouldn't promote one religion over another, and tolerance and acceptance should be the schools objective, not exclusion and intolerance (see teachers comments about the kid).

The fact is atheists in much of the bible belt are closeted, afraid to confide what they believe and live in an area where they often have to pretend religiosity to avoid losing friends, family and even harm their employment opportunities.

This kid's story is one in a long line of near monthly tales of non religious students facing discrimination, intolerance and even threats for simply not taking part in prayer.

This is simply not ok, no matter his motivation he's on the right side of the law. Public school is for everyone, not just christians. The idea he should just shut up and be quiet is beyond stupid, sorry but in order for times to change people need to fight for their rights and that is EXACTLY what this guy is doing.

[Thor]

Since we're all over the place in this thread anyhow, here's more on that location and what Robert Ballard theorizes as the great flood event.

As glaciers and icecaps melted at the end of the last Ice Age, sea levels rose and dramatically changed the world, perhaps nowhere more dramatically than in what is now the Black Sea, where, according to some researchers, a flood 7600 years ago filled the basin.

Evidence for the flood was confirmed in 1996 when Columbia University marine geologists William B.F. Ryan and Walter C. Pitman proposed a solution to the mystery that archeologists and paleoclimatologists have wrestled with since the early 1800s with the story of the deluge that appears in the Book of Genesis was found to exist in other cultures not associated with the Judeo-Christian Bible such as the Epic of Gilgamesh (Ryan, et. al., 1997).

As sea levels rose, the waters of the Mediterranean began to flow into the basin that is now the Black Sea. According to the National Geographic, "funneled through the narrow Bosporus, the water hit the Black Sea with 200 times the force of Niagara Falls. Each day the Black Sea rose about six inches (15 centimeters), and coastal farms were flooded." (See Ballard and the Black Sea).

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/ctl/clihis10k.html

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Prayer being used as a bullying tactic kind of defeats its original purpose, no?

Yes it would be. but, that's not what is occuring here. What we have here is a young Atheist trying to bully the christians with a bad law.

When I was in kindergarten our teacher would have us pray before we had our snack time. One day for no other reason then attention I put my hand up after we prayed and told my teacher that Billy was looking around when he was suppose to be praying. She naturally quickly pointed out that I obviously had my eyes open too. I knew before hand that that would be her response but, for some reason I thought it would be hilarious. I guess I wanted to get caught.

I can't believe this kid couldn't have just stood there until the prayer was over.

[photon]

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/90-1014.ZS.html

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Yes it would be. but, that's not what is occuring here. What we have here is a young Atheist trying to bully the christians with a bad law.

They went ahead and a prayer in the rehearsal ceremony. That's the bullying part. Then they cheered like is was a sporting contest.

And it's a very good law.

I can't believe this kid couldn't have just stood there until the prayer was over.

Because he doesn't have to?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Yes it would be. but, that's not what is occuring here. What we have here is a young Atheist trying to bully the christians with a bad law.

Whether you think the law is a bad one or not is irrelevant. By holding a public Christian prayer (rather than a private moment of silence in which students can pray to any religious deity they want or choose not to pray at all), the school is illegally violating the constitution. End of story. The fact that you and others don't like the law doesn't mean it's not legally enforcible. The atheist student is 100% in the right in this case as determined by a Supreme Court ruling 20 years ago. The school district's own lawyers even acknowledge that the kid is right, hence why they were forced to remove the public prayer from the graduation ceremony.

Note that the atheist is not preventing the other students from praying to themselves or gathering for an optional prayer session outside of the graduation ceremony. He's not violating their rights to peacefully assemble and practice their religion. On the other hand, by forcing prayer on him, his rights to religious freedom are being violated.

As the expression goes, your rights end where mine begin. I have the right to not be subjected to religion by representatives of the government; you do not have the right to have the government support your religion via enforced prayer at a taxpayer-funded event.

[Thor]

Supreme Court judges have such a polite way of smacking people down, I love how that's written.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by photon

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/90-1014.ZS.html

I've linked to that ruling at least three times in this thread already. Some people (like transplant99) are ignoring our specific objections and think that we're saying that all prayer is illegal (nobody in this thread has ever made that claim), and others (like Calgaryborn) simply describe it as "a bad law".