Imagine the Flames gone, Senators gone and eventually Winnipeg to two-peat. Vancouvers hockey arena isn't look very full these days.
The state of NHL hockey in Canada isn't looking great. It must have the flu like Connor.
Either which way, there is a public interest in a venue. Without the Flames, the City will be using the Saddledome for the next 30 years without a major draw. I don't know how to say this more bluntly, but the economics of hockey in Canada require civic, ticket holder and owner funding. It's that simple. McMahon is a joke, but the City plans to keep using that venue or renovating it.
Perhaps, there is a 1/4 investor which would be the NHL as they open these new franchises in the US watering down the league's history which is firmly rooted in Canada, there should be a steeper payout to existing franchises in Canada instead of among the league with higher populations and revenue generation. Revenue distribution via disparity of lack of population like in the US to support the business of NHL hockey economics.
I honestly feel as the anti government funding people are blind to the economics. I know the new library is essential, I know so many things in Calgary's budget are, but the City and it's current leader have no interest in what was clearly a strong electoral issue.
The NHL should setup an "arena" fund where every year they hand it out to one team. So every 31 years, a team can expect, maybe $200 million. They can use it for renovation, or contribution to a new arena, or hold it until they are ready if they don't "need" a new arena at that point. At least make some of it predictable.
I love this idea but take it a step farther and take the fund out of league revenues so the players get to help pay for it too
I love this idea but take it a step farther and take the fund out of league revenues so the players get to help pay for it too
If you just lowered the cap 20 million and had it go to a building fund you'd generate 600 million a year and could fully pay for every team to have a Brand new building.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GGG For This Useful Post:
If you just lowered the cap 20 million and had it go to a building fund you'd generate 600 million a year and could fully pay for every team to have a Brand new building.
Not a suitable situation for the oilers. They would lose 2 players.
Murray Edwards: Everyone thinks I'm the biggest ####heel owner in the NHL
Melnyk: Hold my beer
Murray Edwards: If I don’t get everything I want I am just going to pick up and move.
Ken King: Yup listen up Flames Fans!
Eric Francis: I have the inside scoop, Flames packing up and moving in 3 years tops!
Bill Daly: umm no.
Gary Betman, Ken King, Eric Francis, Murray Edwards: Doh! Hope they don’t have access to Ottawa papers in Calgary...
Let them buy the West Village land and then they can do whatever they want with it.
The city doesn't want NEXT, they definitely don't want it on the West Village site. Since it's their land being bandied about, what CSEC wants in regards to location doesn't matter.
And why would they get more opportunities for revenue? They don't own anything to be developed where NEXT was. Or should the city just give it to them, too?
can you really blame the city here. The WV land is potentially worth billions in reinvestment once the site is remediated and the road system is upgraded around there. Once the Crowchild corridor projects gets funded and completed there will be plenty of interest in developing the WV Lands by inner city developers. Plus the potential for high impact high density is there. This kind of situation if Calgary was New York, Toronto, or Vancouver would be snatched up by a billionaire in a heart beat. OFc They don't want to literally pay Murray Edwards to put his project on there. There's no doubt the city should remediate that land and they will eventually when it's prudent to do so but the private ROI for that area is much too valuable to piss away on a large footprint arena/stadia combo. I don't blame our mayor one bit here for playing hardball. You don't happenstance across prime river front property like that.
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to johnnybegaudreau For This Useful Post:
can you really blame the city here. The WV land is potentially worth billions in reinvestment once the site is remediated and the road system is upgraded around there. Once the Crowchild corridor projects gets funded and completed there will be plenty of interest in developing the WV Lands by inner city developers. Plus the potential for high impact high density is there. This kind of situation if Calgary was New York, Toronto, or Vancouver would be snatched up by a billionaire in a heart beat. OFc They don't want to literally pay Murray Edwards to put his project on there. There's no doubt the city should remediate that land and they will eventually when it's prudent to do so but the private ROI for that area is much too valuable to piss away on a large footprint arena/stadia combo. I don't blame our mayor one bit here for playing hardball. You don't happenstance across prime river front property like that.
I don't blame the city at all. They're making the right decision both for the long-term future of the area, and where it would be best to have the arena in the inner city. People acting like NEXT was anything more than the Flames saying "give us free land here" is bothersome, like the Flames really can make any demand for where the arena will go. They're in a position where the city will tell them where an arena can go, and they can agree to contribute or not.
The list of reasons the West Village was a bad spot for NEXT is long, and the reasons why the city wouldn't want it there are even longer. And supposedly (according to frinkprof, who I know is connected), this was passed on to CSEC before they ever made NEXT public, something that undoubtedly annoyed administrators.
The Following User Says Thank You to Roughneck For This Useful Post:
I don't blame the city at all. They're making the right decision both for the long-term future of the area, and where it would be best to have the arena in the inner city. People acting like NEXT was anything more than the Flames saying "give us free land here" is bothersome, like the Flames really can make any demand for where the arena will go. They're in a position where the city will tell them where an arena can go, and they can agree to contribute or not.
The list of reasons the West Village was a bad spot for NEXT is long, and the reasons why the city wouldn't want it there are even longer. And supposedly (according to frinkprof, who I know is connected), this was passed on to CSEC before they ever made NEXT public, something that undoubtedly annoyed administrators.
I've heard this before so it's nice to have confirmation.
I've said this before, but that whole CalgaryNext unveil has always left me with a sour taste in my mouth, actually worse, more like a mouth full of vomit. Waiting until Nenshi was out of town to unveil and then have acting mayor Colley-Urquhart immediately on a media blitz to sell this awful, ill-conceived plan, hoping the gullible public would eat it up and give the Flames whatever they wanted... Gross, all the way around. Before that I thought it was only KK that was the dick, I didn't know it went all the way up.
__________________
The Delhi police have announced the formation of a crack team dedicated to nabbing the elusive 'Monkey Man' and offered a reward for his -- or its -- capture.
I don't blame the city at all. They're making the right decision both for the long-term future of the area, and where it would be best to have the arena in the inner city. People acting like NEXT was anything more than the Flames saying "give us free land here" is bothersome, like the Flames really can make any demand for where the arena will go. They're in a position where the city will tell them where an arena can go, and they can agree to contribute or not.
The list of reasons the West Village was a bad spot for NEXT is long, and the reasons why the city wouldn't want it there are even longer. And supposedly (according to frinkprof, who I know is connected), this was passed on to CSEC before they ever made NEXT public, something that undoubtedly annoyed administrators.
Not sure if it was finkprof, but Bunk (aka Josh White):
Quote:
“If they proposed West Village, they’d be nuts,” policy analyst Josh White wrote to his colleagues in January 2013. “We told them two years ago the challenge with this site … The business case only makes sense if you can fully build it out at very high density. An arena sucks up a huge (piece) of land, leaving a lot less to pay back a CRL (community revitalization levy).”
In another e-mail, White suggested West Village shouldn’t be opened up for at least a decade, lest it “cannibalize market demand” for East Village.
Vic Park is not something that CSEC wants, so they're going to play as hardball as possible with their wants. Vic Park does not solve their Stamps problem, and does not really give them an opportunity for additional revenue potentials.
The one idea that basically everyone pro publicly funded arena and anti publicly funded arena can agree is terrible?
No thanks.
I'd prefer something that isn't both an awful sports venue while at the same time being an example of terrible urban planning..
For clarity - the conversation referenced was in 2011. King and someone else from the Flames came to meet the Mayor. I sat in on that meeting. It was the first time they floated the idea of West Village. The Mayor and I both talked about (relatively briefly) the difficulties of that location - in terms of cost, infrastructure environmental and therefore the financial viability, particularly with an arena. At that time, there was no notion of a football stadium (but that exacerbated the problem). It was not just speculation - CMLC had just recently completed a financial analysis of the viability of a CRL based upon the West Village ARP vision. It surmised the area would have to be built out at pretty high density with a fair amount of commercial anchors to make it work for a CRL. Similar conclusion they reached after CalgaryNEXT was released.
A couple years later, when those internal emails were written by myself, the Chief of Staff and the Mayor, there had been some more meetings with some further musings about focusing on West Village. I was reminding them of that initial conversation when West Village was brought up. Jason Markusoff had FOIPed our emails on the topic for this Herald story in late 2014. I had left the office before CalgaryNEXT was revealed.
__________________
Trust the snake.
The Following 23 Users Say Thank You to Bunk For This Useful Post:
Bunk, do you know if another CRL is even possible right now? I was under the impression that a west village CRL would require provincial buy in and that would be very unlikely with the East village still being developed.
__________________
The Delhi police have announced the formation of a crack team dedicated to nabbing the elusive 'Monkey Man' and offered a reward for his -- or its -- capture.
Bunk, do you know if another CRL is even possible right now? I was under the impression that a west village CRL would require provincial buy in and that would be very unlikely with the East village still being developed.
CRLs do require provincial approval. It’s not impossible, as Edmonton has more than one CRL on the go, but the appetite from the current government might be low as they also forego provincial education property taxes during the life of a CRL. It would certainly be seen as riskier in the current economic climate and real estate market - both for commercial and multifamily residential.
__________________
Trust the snake.
The Following User Says Thank You to Bunk For This Useful Post:
Murray Edwards: If I don’t get everything I want I am just going to pick up and move.
Ken King: Yup listen up Flames Fans!
Eric Francis: I have the inside scoop, Flames packing up and moving in 3 years tops!
Bill Daly: umm no.
Gary Betman, Ken King, Eric Francis, Murray Edwards: Doh! Hope they don’t have access to Ottawa papers in Calgary...
If you just lowered the cap 20 million and had it go to a building fund you'd generate 600 million a year and could fully pay for every team to have a Brand new building.
And if pigs had wings, you could get bacon delivered through your window. Zero chance the NHLPA allows that.
__________________
WARNING: The preceding message may not have been processed in a sarcasm-free facility.
These threaten to move things are new this go around in Calgary.
The owners not paying players was hurting attendence in the 90s when every good player who came through the Flames was shipped out of town once they started to get paid (there was no cap then so less being cheap and more being priced out of the market)
no way wv
