2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[dammage79]

Man, I forgot Ottawa does not own their 1st this year. Big ouch.

If Duchene wants to talk smack about the Sens, go for it. It's not like they're the model franchise for anything good these days anyhow. That apparently left with the late Brian Murray.

The Karlsson thing
The Hoffman thing
The Assistant GM thing
The Melnyk thing
Their pre-season marketing thing or whatever you want to call it. The disaster that likely had the players wind up drawing straws to participate in that. Looked like Borowecki drew the short straw.

wouldn't shock me in the least if the coaches were just walking through the season. So yeah, bad ottawa news is the only news.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Diane Phagoof

To the first point. There is only one Rinne, which is something we cannot obtain. You might put Bob in the same category, but his playoff performance has not looked good. He can win all the Vezinas he wants. If you can't perform in the playoffs as a goalie, I don't see the point in acquiring them.

To the second point, I like Monahan, but if you had the option. you take Toews 10/10. 100%, everyday of the week. Not comparable players in my mind. You could argue Backlund/Richards were similarish. I'd take Vermette/Kruger over a Janko/Ryan as a third line center. So TBH, I don't see what you're getting at.

I'm saying that the Hawks had one excellent centre and one that was mediocre at best. You had basically said you need two star centres. The Hawks didn't.

Plus, Backlund right now is superior to Richards in 2015 - have a look at their stats. Vermette and Kruger weren't good at all. Jankowski/Bennett/Dube are just beginning and Ryan s fine for his role.

ETA: and Lindholm

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Because that's the argument! Read the posts.

Someone posted that the Flames in 2018 had the same center strength as the 2015 Blackhawks when they won the Cup. He disagreed because 2015 Toews was a beast. That's that. You made up all the other stuff.

My main argument was that you don't need two elite centres. Neither the Hawks or the Kings did.

I did say the depth is as good, and when you consider the choices including Lindholm, I think they are.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

I think people are kidding themselves if they dont think our centre core is not a weakness.
Monahan
Backlund
Jankowski
Is not a cup winning centre core. I know this website can be an echo chamber but people need to look at centre cores of other teams.

Luckily for the Flames We are strong on defense and wings to make up for it so its that THAT big of an issue right now but it is an obvious weakness. Luckily we have Lindholm who we can maybe use as a centre to bolster that group however that would cause our Wing depth to be poor.

Is entering prime Toews, past his prime Richards and Vermette a cup winning centre core? Yup.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But watch how he plays. He looks like he is "playing centre" to me. By that I mean he is doing everything that you want your centre-ice men to do.

On Monahan’s tying goal against Hawks, Lindholm drives the middle with Gaudreau on right and Monahan on left wing. Lindholm looks natural there (that goal looked like a set play to me) and you’re absolutely correct - he does it all.

[Phagoof]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I'm saying that the Hawks had one excellent centre and one that was mediocre at best. You had basically said you need two star centres. The Hawks didn't.

Plus, Backlund right now is superior to Richards in 2015 - have a look at their stats. Vermette and Kruger weren't good at all. Jankowski/Bennett/Dube are just beginning and Ryan s fine for his role.

ETA: and Lindholm

You need to take the homer glasses off man.

Again your comparing a 2014-2015 Toews to Monahan 2018-2019, which in my opinion is not a comparison. Toews was on a different level. He had 66 (28 goals) points and was a +30 and a total defensive stalwart. Think Bergeron but more physical. Also, 21 points in 23 playoff games. Put it this way, if we had 2014 Toews instead of Monahan, I'd say we're a sure fire contender. There is a reason he has 3 cups and earned a 10M contract (even if hes not worth it now)

I'd call the Backlund/Richards a wash, you could make the argument Backlund has a small edge.

Ryan and Janko have 5 points combined through 15 games, that's not good enough.

The flames center depth is not good enough. Period. I'm gonna take a break from this thread for a while. I've made my point.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

On Monahan’s tying goal against Hawks, Lindholm drives the middle with Gaudreau on right and Monahan on left wing. Lindholm looks natural there (that goal looked like a set play to me) and you’re absolutely correct - he does it all.

His on ice awarenes is a major boon to that line. If he's not there Crawford doesn't have a think twice option in his mind and can fully commit to Monahan. Thats a split second of time to get a shot off. And it's not a one off either. Lindholm consistently rolls to the off side of the crease of where the shooter is, most of it is instinct. He is innately creating secondary options for a few scenarios should they play out. Goalie stops monnies shot? rebounds likely going to his stick.

Same thing on the Neal goal against the Avs too. Just off wing and high enough to either accept a pass if Neal isn't happy with the shot and low enough to collect a rebound should it get out there if its stopped.

Maybe it's just me but the guy just has that hockey sense that good/great players have.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Diane Phagoof

You need to take the homer glasses off man.

The last vestige of a floundering argument: appeal to "homerism."

Again your comparing a 2014-2015 Toews to Monahan, which in my opinion is not a comparison. Toews was on a different level. He had 66 (28 goals) points and was a +30 and a total defensive stalwart. Think Bergeron but more physical. Also, 21 points in 23 playoff games. Put it this way, if we had 2014 Toews instead of Monahan, I'd say we're a sure fire contender.

Toews was and is a great player, but I think you are badly underselling Monahan's abilities on the basis of his playoff inexperience, and his slower developing defensive play.

I'd call the Backlund/Richards a wash, you could make the argument Backlund has a small edge.

A "small edge"? Good lord. Brad Richards finished with 12 goals and 37 points that season, which are smaller numbers than Backlund has registered since his injury riddled 2015 season. And while centring the second line of the Hawks Brad Richards was never playing anywhere near the level of possession dominance that Backlund's line doles out every game. The difference between 2014–15 Brad Richards and Mikael Backlund is not small. It is a chasm.

Ryan and Janko have 5 points combined through 15 games, that's not good enough.

Oh, come on. Vermette was a good, all-round player, but the vaunted Marcus Kruger scored a whopping 17 points in 81 games with the Hawks in 2014–15.

The flames center depth is not good enough. Period. I'm gonna take a break from this thread for a while. I've made my point.

Not convincingly, I would say.

I will repeat a point I made in this discussion from earlier, and it is that your tack on this is too binary. The entire structure of the Flames's forward core does not lend itself to a simple top-to-bottom comparison of the four players who happen to be slotting in at centre for the moment with four centres from another team. The Flames's "centre depth" comes from more than just the middle, and needs to factor in players like Lindholm and Bennett—players who don't line up at centre but play the role of a centre iceman; and players like Czarnik, who is also a centre, but has been held out of the lineup because of the substantial — wait for it ... CENTRE DEPTH.

I will say it again: there is nothing wrong with the Flames collection of centres, and given the choice between this group and the 2014–15 Blackhawks it is not a preposterous decision to be happier with the former.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Boom *Drops Mic*

[SeanCharles]

I don't necessarily think we are weak at center considering Lindholm and Bennett can play the position but I do agree we could use another center to balance out the top 9.

It's disappointing that we signed Ryan and he isn't really adding anything to our top 9 as of yet. If he doesn't end up fitting in it will be a hinderance to filling that role as his salary basically just replaces Stajan as an overpaid 4th line C.

As things are we may already need to offload Frolik's salary just to accommodate a Tkachuk extension so it's a bit of a double whammy if he doesn't start contributing a bit more.

I gotta say I never liked the signing so maybe I'm not being completely fair to the player.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The last vestige of a floundering argument: appeal to "homerism."


Toews was and is a great player, but I think you are badly underselling Monahan's abilities on the basis of his playoff inexperience, and his slower developing defensive play.


A "small edge"? Good lord. Brad Richards finished with 12 goals and 37 points that season, which are smaller numbers than Backlund has registered since his injury riddled 2015 season. And while centring the second line of the Hawks Brad Richards was never playing anywhere near the level of possession dominance that Backlund's line doles out every game. The difference between 2014–15 Brad Richards and Mikael Backlund is not small. It is a chasm.


Oh, come on. Vermette was a good, all-round player, but the vaunted Marcus Kruger scored a whopping 17 points in 81 games with the Hawks in 2014–15.


Not convincingly, I would say.

I will repeat a point I made in this discussion from earlier, and it is that your tack on this is too binary. The entire structure of the Flames's forward core does not lend itself to a simple top-to-bottom comparison of the four players who happen to be slotting in at centre for the moment with four centres from another team. The Flames's "centre depth" comes from more than just the middle, and needs to factor in players like Lindholm and Bennett—players who don't line up at centre but play the role of a centre iceman; and players like Czarnik, who is also a centre, but has been held out of the lineup because of the substantial — wait for it ... CENTRE DEPTH.

I will say it again: there is nothing wrong with the Flames collection of centres, and given the choice between this group and the 2014–15 Blackhawks it is not a preposterous decision to be happier with the former.

Great post.

Just think about how great it is to be in a situation where you have a play happen that makes the center have to cover a wing role, then the two guys that switch off are actually both more than capable at wing and C. It is absurd to argue over the best fit when there is such strength to resist being exposed.

This roster is strong and these may well be the first of the salad days.

[Monahammer]

Oilers fans want koskinen to start over Talbot... think they would be dumb enough to trade us Talbot? Hahah

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Oilers fans want koskinen to start over Talbot... think they would be dumb enough to trade us Talbot? Hahah

Would Treliving be dumb enough to trade for Talbot?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Would Treliving be dumb enough to trade for Talbot?

With how goalies like Dubnyk and Broissoit have looked post-Oilers I am thinking that acquiring a goalie from Edmonton is not a terrible idea.


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[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Diane Phagoof

The flames center depth is not good enough. Period. I'm gonna take a break from this thread for a while. I've made my point.

All teams in the NHL are flawed these days, even the very best teams.

The Flames centre depth isn't great, especially when compared to the best teams of 10 years ago.

But it's good enough to contend for the cup.

As is pretty much any team lucky enough to make the playoffs.

The days of juggernauts winning the Cup because they were simply better than everyone else is largely over.

[Roof-Daddy]

I dunno how you'd fit Duchene and Tkachuk both in under the cap along with a goalie for next year, because I assume you wouldn't want to just get him as a rental, but wow that looks good on paper, and a speedy C like that.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Bennett - Duchene - Neal
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik

Geez what a top 9.

Still rather add a goalie though.

My bet is Tre rides out the season and goes after Varlamov or Bobrovsky in free agency, unless something falls into his lap before that.

[Enoch Root]

Flames don't need Duchene - they are 6th in GF/G. Marginal return to add Duchene, and it causes cap problems. (Never mind the fact that dissension seems to follow him around)

Adding a goalie makes way more sense. I don't want to see the 1st traded, but I could live with it if Bobrovsky were signed at a reasonable price (no more than a 7 handle). Since I doubt that happens, I wouldn't be keen on the trade.

[Monahan For Mayor]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I dunno how you'd fit Duchene and Tkachuk both in under the cap along with a goalie for next year, because I assume you wouldn't want to just get him as a rental, but wow that looks good on paper, and a speedy C like that.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Bennett - Duchene - Neal
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik

Geez what a top 9.

Still rather add a goalie though.

My bet is Tre rides out the season and goes after Varlamov or Bobrovsky in free agency, unless something falls into his lap before that.

I personally wouldn't be impressed if we got a scoring center and still played Tkachuk on the shut down line. Tkachuk with a scoring center makes the top 6 nearly impossible to match up against. Bennett can play with Backlund.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Diane Phagoof

You need to take the homer glasses off man.

Again your comparing a 2014-2015 Toews to Monahan 2018-2019, which in my opinion is not a comparison. Toews was on a different level. He had 66 (28 goals) points and was a +30 and a total defensive stalwart. Think Bergeron but more physical. Also, 21 points in 23 playoff games. Put it this way, if we had 2014 Toews instead of Monahan, I'd say we're a sure fire contender. There is a reason he has 3 cups and earned a 10M contract (even if hes not worth it now)

I'd call the Backlund/Richards a wash, you could make the argument Backlund has a small edge.

Ryan and Janko have 5 points combined through 15 games, that's not good enough.

The flames center depth is not good enough. Period. I'm gonna take a break from this thread for a while. I've made my point.

I'm not comparing Toews and Monahan. Toews was better. I'm disputing whether there were two elite, or even two really good centres on that Hawks team. Which was your argument in the first place.

I guess you've backed off that argument if you think just replacing Monahan with Toews is good enough. That's certainly not what you said before.

[GioforPM]

I also think there's no way Monahan, Duchene and Backlund all play centre and Duchene gets anywhere near the points he did in the past. He wouldn't see enough minutes (unless you think he's the first line centre and not Monahan, in which case Monahan's points drop). Backlund has to play big minutes as a checking centre - in a perfect world, as many as the first line centre on the other team). If Monahan plays 20 minutes, Backlund plays 17 and the fourth line C plays 10, that's only 13 for Duchene. He can't score 60 points from that position.