2016 NHL Draft

[SuperMatt18]

My one concern with Juolevi - is similar to the concern many have with Tkachuk - he plays with such a high quality of linemates it can be hard to gauge how effective he really is when he is on the ice.

In all those highlights posted in Big White's video I see him playing with Tkachuk, Dvorak, and Marner most of the time.

It can be easy to look like a great puck moving, offensive d-man when you are moving the puck up to those forwards every shift. I also wonder if guys like Chychrun or Sergachev would look like even better d-men if they were playing with those guys for 15 minutes a night.

[dammage79]

Just listened to the Conroy interview. Always like listening to him talk. Don't think anyone can conclusively say they have a D man ahead of some forwards. Just that while they are building the list to have them in the right order of who they think is best.

Does sound like he has Juolevi as his favorite D man though. Which is understandable.

Really want draft day to come so this can ll blow over. Whoever the Flames pick will be a good one. Of that I think we can all agree.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

My one concern with Juolevi - is similar to the concern many have with Tkachuk - he plays with such a high quality of linemates it can be hard to gauge how effective he really is when he is on the ice.

In all those highlights posted in Big White's video I see him playing with Tkachuk, Dvorak, and Marner most of the time.

It can be easy to look like a great puck moving, offensive d-man when you are moving the puck up to those forwards every shift. I also wonder if guys like Chychrun or Sergachev would look like even better d-men if they were playing with those guys for 15 minutes a night.

I think when watching these kids who are playing with great players in order to evaluate them we need to be watching for:
1) Does the play die on their stick?
2) Do they make bad decisions in order to get the puck to their high profile line mates?

I think what I've seen of Juolevi and Tkachuk is that the puck rarely dies on either of their sticks. And IMO they consistently make good decisions about where to move the puck to. They aren't forcing it to Marner when he's not open, they identify the open player and move the puck quickly and accurately to them regardless of who it is. IMO Tkachuk creates and drives a lot of plays. And Juolevi's puck moving ability on the powerplay is top notch. Both Tkachuk and Juolevi have excellent vision and passing.

I actually think lower calibre players will stick out like a sore thumb on a line with two more talented players. Plays will die on their stick, they'll flub hard passes, they'll miss open nets, etc. From what I've seen Juolevi and Tkachuk fit in with Marner and Dvorak because all 4 players are extremely highly skilled, all 4 can make and finish plays.

Haven't seen enough of Sergachev to have a very informed opinion on him. From the highlights I've seen he's the flashiest dman, he can waltz up the ice and beat someone with puck handling. Chychrun's vision and hockey sense is not as high as Juolevi's or Fabbro's IMO. Chychrun is more physical and a sublime skater but his decision making just doesn't seem to be as good as Juolevi's. Very interesting crop of d-men and I'm not sure they're very far apart at all.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

My one concern with Juolevi - is similar to the concern many have with Tkachuk - he plays with such a high quality of linemates it can be hard to gauge how effective he really is when he is on the ice.

In all those highlights posted in Big White's video I see him playing with Tkachuk, Dvorak, and Marner most of the time.

We'll just have to trust our scouts on that.

On the upside, it's easier to develop when you get to play with high end players.

[puckedoff]

Joe Levy looks good. Looks better than Haydn Fleury and he went 7th overall.

QED, Joe would be a good pick at 6th overall.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

More talented than Matta for sure. I saw both play for the Knights a lot.I would say that is his basement, a Lidstrom light being his upside.

Hmm, interesting take. I don't see him as better than Maatta with the Knights, but Maatta has also been out of action a lot since he got to the NHL so a lot of people don't realize how talented he is. If Joulevi is Maatta (without the missed time) he is a stud d-man with #3 basement and #1 stud potential.

[GoJetsGo]

If we did draft Juolevi, it would be pretty astounding to think that just two years ago the defensive depth in our prospect pool was rather shallow,

and then we go to having Juolevi, Kylington, Anderson and Hickey all in the system.

That would be a pretty envious group to have in the pipe on the backend.

[Monahan For Mayor]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

If we did draft Juolevi, it would be pretty astounding to think that just two years ago the defensive depth in our prospect pool was rather shallow,

and then we go to having Juolevi, Kylington, Anderson and Hickey all in the system.

That would be a pretty envious group to have in the pipe on the backend.

Second to only the Flyers probably.

[polak]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

If we did draft Juolevi, it would be pretty astounding to think that just two years ago the defensive depth in our prospect pool was rather shallow,

and then we go to having Juolevi, Kylington, Anderson and Hickey all in the system.

That would be a pretty envious group to have in the pipe on the backend.

Yes if all of them pan out it's a nice problem to have but damn, the lack of balance between forwards and defence in our system is scary too.

We desperately need some blue chip forwards.

[Poe969]

I think that's the reason I want to get a top flight forward this draft. There really isn't anyone in the system to step in and be a top 6 guy. The Flames don't have an actual skilled forward let alone a few of them, this team needs more forward skill.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

My one concern with Juolevi - is similar to the concern many have with Tkachuk - he plays with such a high quality of linemates it can be hard to gauge how effective he really is when he is on the ice.

It's ironic that Flames fans are apprehensive about this. We, if any fan group, should know what it looks like when a player simply doesn't fit on a line. Dean McAmmond of all people made the MCI line click. How many forwards did we try on Iginla's line that didn't work?

Same now goes for the RW of Monahan and Gaudreau. We've tried a lot of players there, some of whom simply don't work. And last year, Hudler clicked like a dream and made the whole line better.

It's funny that we underrate "complimentary" players like Tkachuk (and maybe Juolevi, though D is a different beast) when that's exactly what we need. We have straws that stir the drink, now we need the drink.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

It's funny that we underrate "complimentary" players like Tkachuk (and maybe Juolevi, though D is a different beast) when that's exactly what we need. We have straws that stir the drink, now we need the drink.

I think the thing is that when you're drafting at 6, it feels rather underwhelming to be just getting a complimentary player out of it. No matter what your current needs are, when you're drafting that high, you should ideally be getting another long-term core asset. Another Monahan. Or a guy who can replace Gio eventually. Or a guy who can slot in with Bennett as his Gaudreau.

I think in todays NHL it's ok if you have 2 mainstay guys per every line, and then support them with help like Hudler or Frolik through trades or UFA. But it's important to realize that guys like that can be traded for. Guys like Monahan, Bennett and Brodie tend to have to be drafted.

If the Flames feel that Tkachuk is a core-guy that happens to bring a difference element to the team, great, draft him. If they only see him as being a Dean MCammond, I think that would be poor asset management.

This is most likely the last draft in a long while where we draft this high. We have to make it count just as much as the last 3.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

It's ironic that Flames fans are apprehensive about this. We, if any fan group, should know what it looks like when a player simply doesn't fit on a line. Dean McAmmond of all people made the MCI line click. How many forwards did we try on Iginla's line that didn't work?

Same now goes for the RW of Monahan and Gaudreau. We've tried a lot of players there, some of whom simply don't work. And last year, Hudler clicked like a dream and made the whole line better.

It's funny that we underrate "complimentary" players like Tkachuk (and maybe Juolevi, though D is a different beast) when that's exactly what we need. We have straws that stir the drink, now we need the drink.

Another good example is Carl Hagelin: a dud in Anaheim but a good match in Pittsburgh.

[Vinny01]

Why are people's opinion on trading the pick? I worry about trading 2 first rounders back to back especially ones in the top half but if the Flames could get a forward that helps now and the future it could be worth it.

Would Drouin for our 1st be something people would get behind?

I think the flames 2 biggest holes on the ice are a goalie and some forwards that can play with Bennett and one that can play with Johnny and Monny

Big summer for the likes of Porier, Shinkaruk, Klimchuck, and Jankowski. Hoping 1-2 of them make the full time jump this year

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I think the thing is that when you're drafting at 6, it feels rather underwhelming to be just getting a complimentary player out of it. No matter what your current needs are, when you're drafting that high, you should ideally be getting another long-term core asset. Another Monahan. Or a guy who can replace Gio eventually. Or a guy who can slot in with Bennett as his Gaudreau.

I think in todays NHL it's ok if you have 2 mainstay guys per every line, and then support them with help like Hudler or Frolik through trades or UFA. But it's important to realize that guys like that can be traded for. Guys like Monahan, Bennett and Brodie tend to have to be drafted.

If the Flames feel that Tkachuk is a core-guy that happens to bring a difference element to the team, great, draft him. If they only see him as being a Dean MCammond, I think that would be poor asset management.

This is most likely the last draft in a long while where we draft this high. We have to make it count just as much as the last 3.

I think people are using the term "complimentary player" in different usages.

Tkachuk is a driving player IMO. His vision, passing and playmaking are arguably better than Monahan's. Benning calls him a 1st line forward. So why are people calling him a complimentary player? Because he can compliment highly skilled players who need the puck on their sticks. He's elite without the puck. He knows how to find the open space, he knows to drive the net. He keeps track of where everybody is on the ice so if you pass him the puck he doesn't need to look around to find his next passing target. He can compliment finesse players by doing the dirty work of winning board battles, driving the net, drawing players to him before dishing it off, etc. Tkachuk doesn't need the puck on his stick long. You can pass it to him and then he'll immediately shoot or dish it off. Tkachuk is a 1st unit PP threat. Instead of having to stick Colborne or Ferland as the net front presence he'd give us a legitimate 1st liner who can play that complimentary role.

For example look at a guy like Phil Kessel. He's one of the most talented wingers in the league. But he needs the puck on his stick. He doesn't seem to compliment Crosby or Malkin very well, he isn't a "complimentary player" in that sense. He needs the puck on his stick but so do Malkin and Crosby and there's only one puck to go around. Meanwhile you throw him on a line with a couple of decent players who compliment him and he can make that line click and be dangerous. He's having a lot of success helping to drive that 3rd line to give the Pens depth.

Tkachuk is complimentary in that sense that he will compliment any type of centre. He makes lines better. But he definitely has 1st line skill. So those who use the term "complimentary player" more like the term "role player" aren't going to like the sound of Tkachuk being a complimentary player. But he's far from a role player. He's not a complimentary player in the sense that Frolik is, he's not a good two-way winger who plays the defensive conscience on a line. He's the complimentary heavy winger on a very offensive line.

To me he could play with Mony and Johnny and give us one of the best lines in the entire league. Or you can play him with Bennett and have two extremely dangerous offensive duos. He would make our top 6 forwards better wherever we would stick him.

[Poe969]

I wouldn't mind Drouin but not at that cost. If the Flames are going to trade the pick for a player, I'd rather them go after another team's RFA who they'll have a hard time keeping. Guys like Trocheck, JT MIller, Johansson come to mind because they seem to fit what the team needs more than Drouin does. Now if Drouin could be had for a second + or a couple of seconds, I'd say yes but not for the #6 pick.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

ugh early picks on goalies ugh

Two late 2nd round picks, it's happening, Conroy was planting the seed. Deal with it brother!

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

I am now expecting the Flames to use one of their seconds on a goalie. Just hope it isn't the 35th.

I'd be fine with it being the 35th if it's one they really like. Personally I would like the Flames to acquire Evan Fitzpatrick or Carter Hart.

Veini Vehvilainen might be an interesting option with a later pick as well.

[albertGQ]

I think you'd have to jump on a Drouin for 6th overall pick. Especially how great he has played this year in the playoffs.

He fills a need and is 21 years old.

With that being said, I think TB wouldn't do this trade without us adding. I'd add Wotherspoon but not sure if that would get the deal done.

[polak]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

I think you'd have to jump on a Drouin for 6th overall pick. Especially how great he has played this year in the playoffs.

He fills a need and is 21 years old.

With that being said, I think TB wouldn't do this trade without us adding. I'd add Wotherspoon but not sure if that would get the deal done.

I'd add Wotherspoon in a heart beat but the guy is topping out as a bubble player. You'll need way more than that imo.

6th + Backlund would probably do it and I personally would veto that all the way to veto town and park it in vetoville next to Where R U Chris Sullivan