Edmonton is No Good XII: "I Dunno.. it's Just Not Good."

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

McDavid is generational, one player alone cannot win a cup. Though he came close twice along with Draisaitl.

I hate him as much as the next person, but to suggest he isn't generational when you look at his stats in both regular season and playoffs is crazy. He is 3rd all time in points per game in the playoffs.

apparently you don't

you think this number goes up as a player ages or down?

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by dino7c

apparently you don't

you think this number goes up as a player ages or down?

I don't care if it goes up or down. I actually hope it stays the same and he never makes playoffs again.

I was only pointing out that he is a generational player. Maybe he is a loser in the later rounds of playoffs, maybe his team just sucks, but he is generational.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

And inside Conner breaks a little bit more, like he broke a little bit yesterday and in the weeks and months and years before that.


And this is what it feels like to be Conner McDavid as long as he stays in Edmonton.


Slightly slower, always depressed and hopeless and he realizes that there are probably more hockey games behind him then ahead of him and that his dreams of hoisting up the cup, especially in Edmonton just might be over.


So show some sympathy CalgaryPuck for the former McJesus as he slides from mega star, to super star to Star to a guy on a PTO.

No one forced him to sign that extension.

[McG]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I hate to defend McJesus, but we should look at it from his perspective.


He wakes up in the morning, and because over the last two years he's played a ton of hockey, and because he's continually on the ice, you can take his game count and add another third in terms of ice time, so probably his hips and knees feel like they're 50 years old.


He gets out of bed and pads through his house, a house with no color because his girlfriend who decorated it was obsessed with a colorless dreary scheme. He sips his coffee and stares out the window and he see's Edmonton in winter, and he can open the window but he knows it will smell like sweat and sewage and inbreeding. So he goes downstairs to shoot some baskets to clear his mind but remembers his basketball court has a rim that is literally about a foot from the ceiling so shooting baskets are impossible.


Already feeling depressed he creaks to his car and has to drive through the heart of Edmonton in winter, while the smell of unwashed Edmontonians wafts through his vents.


He gets to the rink and walks into the dressing room and the first thing he see's is his best friend Leon with a perpetual scowl and a bitter beer expression on his face, and realizes that as negative and bitter as Leon sounds when talking to the press he's even worse in private, and he's gotta go on a lunch date with him, and a wretched groan escapes from McDavid. He looks around the dressing room for a sign of hope and he see's none, the veterans are no good, and the hope for the future is a bust as the young players that are there, well almost, one of them got demoted after being super hyped, Savoie looks like hot garbage on most nights, the new kid is pretty much a less then average skilled physical type that won't do much on most nights. Then the door slams open and Skinner walks in wearing the latest in ridiculous hipster wear that probably includes a ridiculous hat and cap as if he doesn't have a care in the world, and Connor feels even more hopeless as he looks at the lines and see's that he's probably got RNH and maybe a battered Hyman on his wing, not bad if he was playing on the third line, but this is the first line, its his line, and he's going to have to carry it like its two 200 pound apes on his shoulders.


And just when it can't get worse his coach, his chosen coach walks in with the look of a man that's overwhelmed and ready to be fired.


And Connor then realizes that he's going to have to sign some autographs after the game, and deal with the odors of the unwashed masses, and at that point, his brain gives up, he can't even go home and shoot baskets and he realizes that he doesn't know what's worse, hanging out in these dressing room playing with this awful lineup, or going home to his drab house and his lame basketball court.


And inside Conner breaks a little bit more, like he broke a little bit yesterday and in the weeks and months and years before that.


And this is what it feels like to be Conner McDavid as long as he stays in Edmonton.


Slightly slower, always depressed and hopeless and he realizes that there are probably more hockey games behind him then ahead of him and that his dreams of hoisting up the cup, especially in Edmonton just might be over.


So show some sympathy CalgaryPuck for the former McJesus as he slides from mega star, to super star to Star to a guy on a PTO.

Fantastic work! I was wondering if there was any update to your work about seeing Spector or Matheson or the other lackeys camped out at his stall? Or seeing some schleps living large on their brand new contracts that Mavi funded? That must be stomach churning too!

[midniteowl]

McDavid is no good, McDavid's agent is no good.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

No one forced him to sign that extension.

In fairness...for $125M I'd walk through Hell barefoot. I'd even consider Edmonton.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

He gets to the rink and walks into the dressing room and the first thing he see's is his best friend Leon with a perpetual scowl and a bitter beer expression on his face, and realizes that as negative and bitter as Leon sounds when talking to the press he's even worse in private, and he's gotta go on a lunch date with him, and a wretched groan escapes

Chicken Nuggies w/ Caviar at The Trove (yes, it’s a real menu item).

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Even on HFOilers they are starting to admit that Mackinnon is the best player in the NHL.

I still think Barkov is the best player in the NHL. He has the mitts and instincts to easily stack up 100 point seasons if he wanted to. Since forever, people have used goals and assists to determine who the best player is, but Barky might be the most complete player the league has seen since Peter Forsberg.

Actually, I might have to think about this some more, because Crosby's in there too somewhere. Not as physical, but an absolute dog on the puck and might be the best ever along the boards.

I'm still working on an app for normalizing and comparing players, but while Forsberg might be 90s all across the board, Crosby might dip as low as 80 in some areas and rise as high as 95 in others. Barky would be a mix of 85s and 90s. McDavid might have a few 95s and even be one of the few players in history with a 100 in one or two things, but also have substantial lows in the 30s in other things... and MacKinnon might top out at 95 but bottom out at a 45. I'm still working on some of the algorithms, but I also have other to work through before I can get back to it.

I still contend that Mack and McD might be the best players in the game at certain aspects (Mack probably better than McD right now, but Mack also has an extremely more talented supporting cast out there with him), but my money's on Barkov/Crosby as being the two guys that represent the best package of all aspects of the game.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Locke

Story aside, I do wonder how McDavid feels about all this.

I know these guys are a competitive breed by nature and constantly losing sucks, they want to win.

But there are other ways to 'Win.' He has made a LOT of money. We're all familiar with guys coasting or mailing it in after cashing in on a big contract, and McDavid doesnt even need to do that, he's made generational money already!

Its interesting to me.

Because what goes through his mind? He's made lots of money...but the Oilers suck. But he's made LOTS of money...but Edmonton in general sucks...but he's made LOTS of money!! But he gets ridden hard and put away wet night after night...but he's made LOTS of money...

Okay so for arguments sake he never gets a Cup (at least not in Crapmonton) but he's still sort of winning at Life. He could give it all up. Retire tomorrow and live out the rest of his days on a beach somewhere where nobody knows him sipping Cuba Libres and Mai Tais until his liver gives out and never have to worry about a dollar.

So why go through the torture?

The part that fans often discount and don't understand is that this is a job, just like anything else we do. Do they like winning? Of course. But not all of these people are built like Sidney Crosby. That guy is a machine!

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

No one forced him to sign that extension.

Don't be so sure. Stranger things have happened in Edmonton.

[flamingred89]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Chicken Nuggies w/ Caviar at The Trove (yes, it’s a real menu item).

If you ever wonder where kickbacks to Mcdavid might be funneled towards look no further than that place. I have had the pleasure of experiencing the Trove on a work trip. And let me tell you. It's as gawdy and tasteless as Donald trumps oval office. But I guess that's to be expected from the visionary that is Lauren Kyle. Just shows that people with money don't always have taste.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Chicken Nuggies w/ Caviar at The Trove (yes, it’s a real menu item).

Like the culinary equivalent of sweat pants with dress shoes.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

McDavid is no good, McDavid's agent is no good.

No good agent would have let him sign his new contract. McDavid may be a good hockey player but he has to be in the running for dumbest player ever. Imagine taking $5+ million a year less than what you are worth for that organization of all organizations.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Like the culinary equivalent of sweat pants with dress shoes.

Points for rounding their menu items to the dollar, rather than using the $0.97 addendum. Classy!

[trackercowe]

The McDavid vs. MacKinnon comparison will be interesting a few years from now. I suppose you can have two generational players, but like with Crosby and Ovechkin there is always a 1a and a 1b. The media loves to fawn over McDavid because of his highlight reel plays, but when you get down to brass taxes MacKinnon is the more accomplished player. If McDavid doesn't win a Cup it's fairly obvious who had the better career, but even today I would expect it's relatively close. Despite TSN always listing McDavid as #1 on their best player lists, I'm really curious to see if that will finally change next year. The media shills are going to be choking down tears when they're forced to admit McDavid is no longer the best in the game.

[GioforPM]

Not enough Makar mentions in the "best player" discussion.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Generational - by definition - is once every 20 years. Is McDavid this? Nope - I think MacKinnon or Makar should be considered the 'best of the last 20 years".


However, that's also kind of a stupid rule too. Gretzky + Lemieux + Jagr (yes, don't bother arguing with me and wasting both our times, I will die 1000 deaths on this hill) all entered the league relatively close together. They are all unquestionably in the highest echelon of tiers.


That's how I think of 'generational' now. It is such an overused word in hockey. Now I just think "Oh, this kid is supposed to be generational - does that mean tier 1 or tier 2?


McDavid could still end up as a tier 1 player. I think MacKinnon is closer to that than McDavid is, however. Crosby to me is Tier one for sure, and I think he is the only active player that I would consider a Tier 1 talent.


Tier 2 for me are players like Iginla, Sakic, Yzerman - players that were consistently among the best of their generation, but who simply are a tier below players like Howe, and Orr, and so on. So when a kid is touted as being generational, I simply assume he is 'tier 2', as it is highly unlikely he will be tier 1. I think McDavid is a solid Tier 2 player.

I think he is one of the best players in the game - definitely top 5. If I could pick any current player in the game today to start my franchise with, and have that player starting off as an 18 year old, McDavid is probably in my top 5, but he is certainly not in my top 3. Crosby, MacKinnon and Makar are definitely in my top 3. I can argue that Kucherov is a proven winner too and has amazing post-season success, but hey, that's arguable for many. Crosby, MacKinnon and Makar are definitely ahead of McDavid for me.


Doesn't mean McDavid is not 'generational' - I just think that definition just doesn't mean what it really should mean, which is the 'best player of his generation". It is even arguable in most 20 year spans who the best player was. Lemieux vs Gretzky, for instance.


McDavid is solidly as tier 2 player for me, but I wouldn't rule him out from ending up in the top tier. I just think it is doubtful, but he is unquestionably one of the best players in the world right now.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Coach

He could have chosen to not sign. He can choose to demand a trade literally any day. The return for a short term cheap McDavid could be insane.

But they are too stubborn and he’s obviously too dumb or too chicken.

I'd rather have a McDavid signed to a friendly contract with a couple of years left, than a straight up UFA. McDavid taking the 2 year contract may have been a favor to Edmonton in more than 1 way. It gives them two more chances to compete potentially, but also increases their return in a trade.

McDavid can still demand out at any moment. He has that star power.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I don't think McDavid lost his talent. I simply think he is exhausted from playing so many minutes per night, and having 2 deep cup runs that ultimately meant nothing.

And he sees the team is worse than last year. He knows he has to carry the team and he's a couple years older and it is harder to play so many minutes each night. On top of that he gave his team a huge discount so they could build a winning team. And they got worse. So I'm sure motivation is a factor also.

I'm quite curious to see how McDavid ages into his 30s. When was the last time a superstar was so dependent on footspeed? Bure?

We never got to see how Bure's game aged, as he was also hampered by severe injuries and forced into early retirement.

I do see McDavid as an offensive talent, with more than just footspeed. He has lots of other skills. However, there's no denying that extreme speed does increase his offensive totals, and that speed is typically one of the first things to go. Once again, I think we could see a situation where McDavid is no longer dominant over all other players and is part of a group of great players, and that may have already happened.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Locke

In fairness...for $125M I'd walk through Hell barefoot. I'd even consider Edmonton.

Accountants are the Edmonton Oilers of occupations.