Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

This is a pretty good example of the current rift in Canadian politics and the Canadian population.

CPC had the ability to effectively govern, to not court the extreme right wing of their party/society.

People have allowed themselves to fall into the same issues we see in the US, Where people wont even talk to each other if they are of opposing political views. People have been coerced into believing those on the other side are this evil entity. Right wing has been allowed to become this means to make others less then. Edit: This goes both ways

had any sort of track record that they were actually good for the economy (even Alberta's) then I would probably vote for them.
The don't.
Moot point at best , as its very clear the liberal government as elected are incapable of even understanding fiscal policy.

I'm willing to accept some level of open corruption as the lesser of two evils.
What level of corruption do you feel is acceptable? When will it cross the line for you into not acceptable? This is a problem no matter the level, How would you feel if this was occurring with a government you didn't find yourself aligned with?

I'm not gonna vote for a party who has no interest in fixing problems, because they think the existence of those problems is what will get them elected.
It is very clear, at this point in time, you will not find the resolutions to the problems being suggested by the opposition on main stream media. You want to find PP thoughts on how he is going to resolve what he believes to be current Canadian issues, you are going to need to look elsewhere, He has many. Many wont bother to look however, because sometimes, we dont want to find out.



I see this post as finding reasons why its not in your interest to vote conservative. Some level of moral checklist of why its ok to support a proven failing government with corruption issues.

I get it, your values align with a more social platform, and that is completely fine, everyone is different in this country, lets try not to demonize those with different views then yourself.

I'm not demonizing anyone.
I'm saying that I think the Liberal Government is far from perfect.
I'm also saying that I've followed the CPC and PP quite closely, not just the "Main stream media", and I've found they are severely lacking in any sort of plan/solution for most of our biggest issues. I've also found that PP in particular is doing floating a lot of things that I think will be incredibly harmful to this country.

I'm saying that despite it's current corruption issues, I think the Liberals are better equipped to deal with the current problems facing Canada, and on top of that, they do are not courting the side of the spectrum that I think have some pretty regressive social agendas.

You looked at my post and assumed that I'm not listening to the CPC themselves, and that I'm not up for discussion, which is quite the opposite. Maybe look in the mirror before you tell someone they aren't willing to look at the other side.

[PepsiFree]

Every time people criticize PP for having no substantial ideas the excuse is always “you have to look! you won’t find them so easily! you need to dig!” but it’s literally never just sharing what those ideas are.

Maybe having great ideas that nobody can articulate and nobody can actually pinpoint where in the “elsewhere” to look should be viewed as an issue for anyone who wants to be elected to lead an entire country. Just putting that out there.

[shotinthebacklund]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I'm not demonizing anyone.
I'm saying that I think the Liberal Government is far from perfect.
I'm also saying that I've followed the CPC and PP quite closely, not just the "Main stream media", and I've found they are severely lacking in any sort of plan/solution for most of our biggest issues. I've also found that PP in particular is doing floating a lot of things that I think will be incredibly harmful to this country.

I'm saying that despite it's current corruption issues, I think the Liberals are better equipped to deal with the current problems facing Canada, and on top of that, they do are not courting the side of the spectrum that I think have some pretty regressive social agendas.

You looked at my post and assumed that I'm not listening to the CPC themselves, and that I'm not up for discussion, which is quite the opposite. Maybe look in the mirror before you tell someone they aren't willing to look at the other side.

If this is the case, that's great. If you have looked, and found you are uncomfortable with whats being proposed, by all means vote Liberal. I just hope people will take the time to do so.

Personally, I don't find myself the same. While I dont agree with everything PP is proposing, I find myself closer to his ideals. I cant look past the corruption, Failing economic policy, deceitful means of trying to pass bills, ramifications of Bill C-11.

There is side of the spectrum on both ends, I disagree strongly with both.

[aaronck]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Every time people criticize PP for having no substantial ideas the excuse is always “you have to look! you won’t find them so easily! you need to dig!” but it’s literally never just sharing what those ideas are.

Maybe having great ideas that nobody can articulate and nobody can actually pinpoint where in the “elsewhere” to look should be viewed as an issue for anyone who wants to be elected to lead an entire country. Just putting that out there.

It's way easier to point out problems than to provide actual solutions- Kenney made it his platform and won Alberta, and we all saw what followed

[TheIronMaiden]

Canada is a die cast center left country. Elections are won over who can convince the center to vote for them. It isn't rocket surgery, moderates want moderate social politics. If the CPC wants to win, they need to chase social conservatives from their party, not just lip service, but have public witch burning trials.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by aaronck

It's way easier to point out problems than to provide actual solutions- Kenney made it his platform and won Alberta, and we all saw what followed

Being the opposition party is the easiest job in the world. All you have to do in complain, and say things like "we would reverse _ insert unpopular policy in news cycle_)". add dramatic music and moody lighting, and share it on fakebook.

[shotinthebacklund]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Every time people criticize PP for having no substantial ideas the excuse is always “you have to look! you won’t find them so easily! you need to dig!” but it’s literally never just sharing what those ideas are.

Maybe having great ideas that nobody can articulate and nobody can actually pinpoint where in the “elsewhere” to look should be viewed as an issue for anyone who wants to be elected to lead an entire country. Just putting that out there.

I don't disagree with this at all. I expect we see this being done much more once a election is actually considered a possibility.

We have a pretty good idea from PP on where he stands on economical policy, we dont yet on social policy.

You referenced O Toole earlier. This is where he lost in my opinion, he had no strong policy on either, he chose to be extremely washy on all policy. so much so that no one really knew where he stood. He was removed as given the circumstances, they did not feel he had the platform to win in the next election or hold strong enough opposition.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

I don't disagree with this at all. I expect we see this being done much more once a election is actually considered a possibility.

We have a pretty good idea from PP on where he stands on economical policy, we dont yet on social policy.

You referenced O Toole earlier. This is where he lost in my opinion, he had no strong policy on either, he chose to be extremely washy on all policy. so much so that no one really knew where he stood. He was removed as given the circumstances, they did not feel he had the platform to win in the next election or hold strong enough opposition.

We have some idea where he stands economically, but I think part of the problem is that of what we know, there are a few instances that are not confidence inspiring. He has some very populist ideas, but there isn’t a lot with any substance that feels supported by a sound, underlying economic ideology.

His views on inflation, for example, are hard to take seriously to the point of questioning whether he actually understands inflation. Most understand that there are a lot of global factors at play, which we can see through simple observation of other countries like ours experiencing the same things, and some of it is due to pandemic-related spending that the CPC (including PP) supported at the time. But ask him, and he’ll tell you it’s all Trudeau’s fault. That populist nonsense probably plays with guys who have “##### TRUDEAU” on the back of their white Dodge Ram, but does it play for Canadians that can think for themselves?

Wanting to fire Macklem, using federal powers to promote the use of volatile currencies, messing with private corporations in housing, energy, etc. It just doesn’t read as someone who understands the issues the average Canadian is facing, and certainly has no real idea how to fix them.

What little he has shown us of his social views are mostly the RW populist cliché talking points about woke-ism, university indoctrination, etc. It’s not offensive, but who is it convincing? Who is PP trying to pitch a better Canada to? Because it’s definitely not me.

I respect your right to think differently than I do. If PP ticks enough boxes for you, that’s totally cool. But he doesn’t for me, nor does he for a lot of Canadians, and I think we see a lot in this thread (from one or two posters in particular) of criticism of their fellow Canadians for not blindly voting CPC because the Liberals are so bad. I just think that… maybe… the CPC could do a better job, because it doesn’t look to me like they’re doing a very good one. Not enough of one to make them more appealing than corruption, which is sad.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

You should never have to "dig" for policy positions because they should be clearly expressed in the party's platform, which should be easy to find. If you're not putting your policies front and center, that indicates to me that you don't want me to know what you're for. Which isn't a new thing, because it's harder to criticize someone who doesn't have any clear positions.

All of that said, it's not like we're going to the polls in September, so it's not urgent for me to read a policy document now. But if I were in charge of any of these parties I'd be putting one out every year. Of course, I would never win anything.

[shotinthebacklund]

His views on inflation, for example, are hard to take seriously to the point of questioning whether he actually understands inflation. Most understand that there are a lot of global factors at play, which we can see through simple observation of other countries like ours experiencing the same things, and some of it is due to pandemic-related spending that the CPC (including PP) supported at the time. But ask him, and he’ll tell you it’s all Trudeau’s fault. That populist nonsense probably plays with guys who have “##### TRUDEAU” on the back of their white Dodge Ram, but does it play for Canadians that can think for themselves?

The other side of the coin, we have the current government that shows the same regard for inflation, trying to implement policy and programs that only stoke further inflation. Which also questions whether they understand what inflation is. We see a pattern forming more everyday where PP blames Trudeau, and Trudeau blames everyone else. Zero accountability from Government. End of the day, its us Canadians that suffer.

That populist nonsense probably plays with guys who have “##### TRUDEAU” on the back of their white Dodge Ram, but does it play for Canadians that can think for themselves?
Cant miss a opportunity to demean people hey? Have to get it in there. I respect people as individuals, except those I disagree with. This is exactly the kind of statements I refer to when demonizing people.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

The other side of the coin, we have the current government that shows the same regard for inflation, trying to implement policy and programs that only stoke further inflation. Which also questions whether they understand what inflation is. We see a pattern forming more everyday where PP blames Trudeau, and Trudeau blames everyone else. Zero accountability from Government. End of the day, its us Canadians that suffer.

That populist nonsense probably plays with guys who have “##### TRUDEAU” on the back of their white Dodge Ram, but does it play for Canadians that can think for themselves?
Cant miss a opportunity to demean people hey? Have to get it in there. I respect people as individuals, except those I disagree with. This is exactly the kind of statements I refer to when demonizing people.

Even if your position about the Liberals regarding inflation is true, you’re admitting that PP is no better. So, why are we under any impression that it will get better for suffering Canadians? Why should this encourage us to vote CPC instead of Liberal if they’re both the same?

And the “#### Trudeau” sticker thing isn’t demeaning, these are real people that exist and that blame Trudeau for everything. Pointing out their existence is not demeaning, but denying their existence is. You yourself said you don’t agree with either “extreme” but you want us to pretend that blaming Trudeau entirely for something that basic observable reality tells us is not a Trudeau-exclusive issue plays well with any group outside the ones that blame him for everything? It’s no different than pointing out there are young people who yap about Marxism without understand 90% of it and would never vote CPC because they don’t think for themselves. Is that demeaning, too?

Tell me, what viewpoints of the far end of the spectrum do you “strongly” disagree with, then?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

The other side of the coin, we have the current government that shows the same regard for inflation, trying to implement policy and programs that only stoke further inflation. Which also questions whether they understand what inflation is. We see a pattern forming more everyday where PP blames Trudeau, and Trudeau blames everyone else. Zero accountability from Government. End of the day, its us Canadians that suffer.

That populist nonsense probably plays with guys who have “##### TRUDEAU” on the back of their white Dodge Ram, but does it play for Canadians that can think for themselves?
Cant miss a opportunity to demean people hey? Have to get it in there. I respect people as individuals, except those I disagree with. This is exactly the kind of statements I refer to when demonizing people.

What specific policies of PP/ the Cons do you like and where do you locate that it’s the policies they plan to implement?

[Derek Sutton]

nm

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by GGG

What specific policies of PP/ the Cons do you like and where do you locate that it’s the policies they plan to implement?

Ah, this discussion was getting spicy. But now that you've asked for a source for specific policies, this thread will die down a bit.

[shotinthebacklund]

The demeaning part of the statement is your insistence they cant think for themselves. Either you are purposely playing naive to that statement or are wrapped in your beliefs strong enough to firmly believe it.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

The demeaning part of the statement is your insistence they cant think for themselves. Either you are purposely playing naive to that statement or are wrapped in your beliefs strong enough to firmly believe it.

What would you like to call the phenomenon when people blame a single politician for everything, including things that observable reality suggest aren’t where the blame should lie, to the point of announcing their hatred for that politician. Happy to call it something else, you just tell me what.

And please answer the question about what involve the far end of the spectrum you strongly disagree with.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

That populist nonsense probably plays with guys who have “##### TRUDEAU” on the back of their white Dodge Ram, but does it play for Canadians that can think for themselves?
Cant miss a opportunity to demean people hey? Have to get it in there. I respect people as individuals, except those I disagree with. This is exactly the kind of statements I refer to when demonizing people.

Do you have a F Trudeau sticker on your truck/car?

If not, why are you lumping yourself in with them?

[shotinthebacklund]

What would you like to call the phenomenon when people blame a single politician for everything, including things that observable reality suggest aren’t where the blame should lie, to the point of announcing their hatred for that politician. Happy to call it something else, you just tell me what.


Is it really a phenomenon? I would believe this has happened many times outside of this current situation in our country.

There is many things that can lead to this, and it comes from many places outside of just blame. However, Trudeau is the leader of this country, and as such the leader typically receives much of the blame regardless of earned or otherwise. IE Sutter is the problem! Trudeau does many things that can make others hate him, From attacks on their lively hoods, the condescending tones he chooses to speak to Canadians in, his overall demeanour when speaking about those he disagrees with "do we tolerate these people". All the above and many more I don't have the time to type.

Their hatred lends you to believe they cant think for themselves? they are some kind of hive mind and thoughtless drones working for the colony?

We are fortunate to live in a Country where we are not imprisoned for political opposition.



You want me to explain the far ends of the spectrum to you? I would think you have a firm understanding of what each side represents. you are just trying to create a A ha! moment where you can try to show horn me into a political viewpoint where you can decide I can be dismissed.

[shotinthebacklund]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Do you have a F Trudeau sticker on your truck/car?

If not, why are you lumping yourself in with them?

Nope, and in fact, I don't even know anyone that does.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

The other side of the coin, we have the current government that shows the same regard for inflation, trying to implement policy and programs that only stoke further inflation. Which also questions whether they understand what inflation is. We see a pattern forming more everyday where PP blames Trudeau, and Trudeau blames everyone else. Zero accountability from Government. End of the day, its us Canadians that suffer.

That populist nonsense probably plays with guys who have “##### TRUDEAU” on the back of their white Dodge Ram, but does it play for Canadians that can think for themselves?
Cant miss a opportunity to demean people hey? Have to get it in there. I respect people as individuals, except those I disagree with. This is exactly the kind of statements I refer to when demonizing people.

That's the thing though.
Are you saying the "**** Trudeau" flag isn't demonizing at least 1 specific person, if not generally the people who will vote for Trudeau?
Flying a "**** Trudeau" flag indicates a willingness for a certain level of discourse, and it isn't particularly high.
Singling out that kind of person isn't demonizing them, it's making an, at least partially informed, judgement based on their explicit actions.

Telling you I think PP is going to be bad for the country, and because of that, I'm willing to admit that the recent examples of corruption are the price I'm willing to pay to make sure he isn't in charge, and being able to explain why I think that is (Despite what I think, and a few others have pointed out, seems to be intentional obfuscation on PP's part as to what he really means when he says things), isn't demonizing PP, and it isn't demonizing people who vote for him.