2010 NCAA football thread....

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

I'm in the camp that a playoff system would, in time, have just as many problems and complaints as the existing system. Ultimately, however, so long as the Bowl traditions aren't disturbed, I can live with it.

I do believe that the playoff argument will never get off the ground. There are too many other forces that want to keep things the way it is. No matter how many times stupid ESPN anchors bring up the playoff system, it's not going to change - the system makes too much money as it is, the Universities can cloak themselves in tradition, academics (opposing a longer season), existing contracts, etc... and ultimately, fans are still clamoring to watch.

That argument always cracks me up as much of the time the PO would be happening the students arent even in class....and BBall teams are playing all along that time as well.

And I have a feeling that although the bowl system is a cash cow...if you could get a PO system instituted you would see way more money...eventually.

I still think congress will be looking at this sytem at some point under anti-trust issues and will not be surprised should they determine it an unfair business practice afterwards. Thats why the NCAA should be exploring this all right now and avoid it all.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Why would a 9th place team complain in a 2-team playoff system. But if it were an 8 team-playoff system and they were 9th, you better believe they will complain! The teams just on the outside of anything will always complain.

So we are now down to avoiding a PO system because a team in 9th may be left out erroneously according to them?

I think I can live with that and be assured a better system is in place than is now.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Do you think that is more room for error in determining the top teams when they are selecting 2 or selecting 8?

I mean I dont ever recall the 9th ranked team at seasons end clamoring that they were robbed of a chance to play for the NC...but I can certainly recall teams as low as 5 and 6 all having very strong arguments and most assuredly teams ranked 3 and 4 having absolutely valid arguments. None moreso than Auburn/Boise and Utah in 04. (And just as a side note the team i cheer for benefitted from that at the time because they started the year ranked higher therefore got to play for the NC)

Obviously there is no perfect system, but again no one can tell me the current one is the best one available...because it isnt and has been proven as much.

This sort of summarizes my feelings on it, the 9th ranked team shouldn't have the ability to win the NC. They are the 9th ranked team because they lost games. Putting those teams, or the 6, 7, 8 teams into a playoff kills a big part of what makes the regular season exciting.

Look at this weekend for example, I'm amped for the OSU - Miami game despite having no horse in the race simply becasue it has massive NC implications. The loser could potnetially claw their way back in, but it would be tough. If we go to an 8, or even worse 16, team playoff I probably go from locking into the game for 4 hours to casually checking it out at the bar along with a baseball game and poker. It totally kills what makes college football special, the importance and intensity of every single weekend. I can go back through the last few seasons and find tons of games that I watched intently that I wouldn't have cared at all about had I know that all that was at stake was playoff seeding. College football isn't about getting hot at the end of the year and going on a run, it's about battling through an entire season.

I'm a big time advocate of the plus one system, not in the 4 team playoff sense though. After the bowls we typically have 2 teams that have separated themselves, have those teams play the NC game. I know that still has holes, but it's a step that increases the chances of the actual best teams meeting in the title game while at the same time not turning the big regular season games into an afterthought.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by transplant99

except you have no idea about that. Boise made the rise...are you suggesting no other clubs can? What has happened in college football that no one seems to talk about was an equalizing of scholarships among the big schools and the smaller schools over the last few years. As a result we have seen much less difference between the haves and have nots during that time and we will continue to as recruiting gets somewhat equalized as well. Some things take time.



Or 14....many teams play 13 now....whats the problem? More money for schools BTW as well.



And?




Travel for teams is quite simple...they do it all year long. Fans is another issue for sure, but again the FBS manages quite well as does Bball during March.



You think television will be a problem? really? They will be falling all over each other to get a piece of this pie....it will be a massive revenue stream for all invloved. Not sure how TV is a problem at all.



Again...not sure what you mean. Bowl games are played at neutral venues every year. They are packed if the matchups are good ones. Va Tech/Boise was a neutral stadium and had over 90,000.



I am no expert in any of this stuff so I am not sure why it fall on my shoulders!....but the NCAA, TV networks, and individual institutions all do have guys that are much much smarter than I that i am pretty ceratin could overcome most any obstacles. I will reiterate once again that I understand there are problems with any scenario, but again the one we have now is nowhere near good enough and can be improved upon. there may be some growing pains and some learning along the way (much like BCS has tried to do but failed miserablt at) but thats OK isnt it? Better than being stagnant and saying "oh well we did it this way for 120 years so i guess we will just stay with it".

You can't have the entire WAC conference be good, just one or two teams, still makes it too unbalanced and easy.

January: Teams playing 11 or 12 in the regular season plus 4 playoff games into january? That's tough for students.. these are students remember, not pros.

Travel: again if you're a student at a school, you can't go to 4 different playoff games in 4 different places in 4 weeks. Also in the regular season only a group of fans travel to an away game, maybe 10% of the stadium. Travelling to fill 30-40% of a stadium for multiple games is a different story.

Television: There are existing contracts now, they can't be broken. Plus Im not sure how tv will react. Sure showing bowl games is fun but an entire playoffs? Not sure the first round games are that exciting.

Neutral site: Bowl games can sell out because it's one game. Make a team play 4 times, not sure you an fill all those 90000 seat stadiums. I could be wrong here cause college footbal is nuts.

I'm not sure tv execs or the NCAA are smarter than you. If they were, they would have solved this already. I truly believe it's unsolvable.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by transplant99

That argument always cracks me up as much of the time the PO would be happening the students arent even in class....and BBall teams are playing all along that time as well.

And I have a feeling that although the bowl system is a cash cow...if you could get a PO system instituted you would see way more money...eventually.

I still think congress will be looking at this sytem at some point under anti-trust issues and will not be surprised should they determine it an unfair business practice afterwards. Thats why the NCAA should be exploring this all right now and avoid it all.

I never got (or agreed) with that argument as well... but it's one of the first ones marched out by university presidents.

I think if there was some combination of bowl games and a playoff, I could (and many others who prefer the existing system) get with it. Maybe the four major bowls take turns rotating between hosting semi finals and the national championship game. For example:

Year 2088, the first year of playoffs:
NC: Rose
Semi Finals: Rose, Fiesta
Quarterfinals: Sugar, Orange, Gator, Cotton
First Round: Other minor bowl games

Year 2089:
NC: Fiesta
Semi Finals: Fiesta, Sugar
Quarterfinals: Rose, Orange, Gator, Cotton
First Round: Same

Year 2090:
NC: Sugar
Semi Finals: Sugar, Orange
Quarter Finals: Rose, Fiesta, Gator, Cotton
First Round: Same

Year 2091:
NC: Orange
Semi Finals: Orange, Rose
Quarter Finals: Fiesta, Sugar, Gator, Cotton
First Round: Same

Note: Gator/Cotton just majorish bowls I picked.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

I never got (or agreed) with that argument as well... but it's one of the first ones marched out by university presidents.

I think if there was some combination of bowl games and a playoff, I could (and many others who prefer the existing system) get with it. Maybe the four major bowls take turns rotating between hosting semi finals and the national championship game. For example:

Year 2088, the first year of playoffs:
NC: Rose
Semi Finals: Rose, Fiesta
Quarterfinals: Sugar, Orange, Gator, Cotton
First Round: Other minor bowl games

Year 2089:
NC: Fiesta
Semi Finals: Fiesta, Sugar
Quarterfinals: Rose, Orange, Gator, Cotton
First Round: Same

Year 2090:
NC: Sugar
Semi Finals: Sugar, Orange
Quarter Finals: Rose, Fiesta, Gator, Cotton
First Round: Same

Year 2091:
NC: Orange
Semi Finals: Orange, Rose
Quarter Finals: Fiesta, Sugar, Gator, Cotton
First Round: Same

Note: Gator/Cotton just majorish bowls I picked.

not bad not bad, just a couple of things...

It's not fair to have a semi and a final in the same place. Not fair to have one team travel and the other team sitting there waiting for them.

And again that's alot of travel. One team in four weeks in 2091 could play in the Motor City Bowl (Ford Field), Cotton Bowl, Rose Bowl, Orange Bowl.

Detroit, Dallas, LA, Miami! Good luck to that team!

I think at least the first round has to be a home game. Lower seed goes to higehr seeds house.

Originally Posted by transplant99

So we are now down to avoiding a PO system because a team in 9th may be left out erroneously according to them?

I think I can live with that and be assured a better system is in place than is now.

I could live with that too but the rankings and method have to be changed.
If Boise State and TCU from cupcake schedules both get in and the 9th place team is out, there's a fight again.

[transplant99]

This sort of summarizes my feelings on it, the 9th ranked team shouldn't have the ability to win the NC. They are the 9th ranked team because they lost games. Putting those teams, or the 6, 7, 8 teams into a playoff kills a big part of what makes the regular season exciting.

See this I understand...but if the 8th place team is an undefeated SWAC team for instance, should they not get a shot at the best? I know 04 was an anomaly but 5 schools went undefeated...but only 2 got a chance and that game was a blowout of major proportions which tells me the computer got at least one team wrong.

Look at this weekend for example, I'm amped for the OSU - Miami game despite having no horse in the race simply becasue it has massive NC implications. The loser could potnetially claw their way back in, but it would be tough.

Not that tough at all...either team could lose and still easily(probably in fact if the preseason rankings have any merit) win their conference which assures an automatic BCS game...and should every team in other conferences lose a game they are all now back on equal footing and again it will come down to pre-season rankings as where they start determines how far they fall and how hard/easy it is to get back into the top.


Its still a game i will watch whether or not the PO system exists. Why? because its two early top teams playing one another. A PO system wont change that. If it did..people wouldnt watch NFL regular season games either, but they do and in droves. The SB draws the largest tv audience every year no matter who is playing in it....why? Because people love football whether or not they have a horse in the race. I would suggest the very same for any PO system and in fact the NC game as it is now.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

not bad not bad, just a couple of things...

It's not fair to have a semi and a final in the same place. Not fair to have one team travel and the other team sitting there waiting for them.

And again that's alot of travel. One team in four weeks in 2091 could play in the Motor City Bowl (Ford Field), Cotton Bowl, Rose Bowl, Orange Bowl.

Detroit, Dallas, LA, Miami! Good luck to that team!

I think at least the first round has to be a home game. Lower seed goes to higehr seeds house.

Definitely could be tweaked. I hesitate to include ANY home games because that would cut out 8 bowl games from the playoff system. Maintaining as much bowl tradition as possible is critical, IMO. Those 8 first round bowl games could be rotated so more bowls get the opportunity to participate. the incentive for the higher seed should be to play a lower seed.

I like giving each major bowl the chance to have both a semi final and a NC game in the same year. They essentially do it that way now. As for travel, I don't buy it. I think that argument held water 30-40 years ago when air travel for sports teams weren't chartered or on jets.. With the way it is now, with the money and support that can allow a team to travel easily, the travel argument is completely bunk.

I could live with that too but the rankings and method have to be changed.If Boise State and TCU from cupcake schedules both get in and the 9th place team is out, there's a fight again.

The only way I see (live with it) non-BCS teams making the playoff bracket is if they went undefeated (or 1 loss) and had at least 3 BCS opponents on the schedule every year. Doesn't matter if those BCS teams are ranked at the time they play them or not. This year, Virginia Tech and Oregon State wouldn't pass the sniff test in my playoff model. VT, Oregon State and say Texas Tech (at Boise State) would be sufficient however.

I would also consider a cap on how high non-BCS teams could rise in the seedings - say, no higher than 5th. BCS schools created this market/league and should be rewarded. Non-BCS teams can go create their own if they don't like it.

[JayP]

You all can go round and round about the pros/cons of a playoff system, but at the end of the day no one actually in the sport wants a playoff.

Obviously, the conferences, ADs and school presidents don't want a playoff. But did you know that 73% of coaches (including TCU's Patterson and BSU's Peterson) want to keep the BCS the way it is: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sport...,1073733.story

I've read other articles (which I can't seem to find right now) that surveyed the players and 80% of them don't want a playoff either.

If no one in the sports wants a playoff it clearly isn't going to happen anytime soon.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by JayP

You all can go round and round about the pros/cons of a playoff system, but at the end of the day no one actually in the sport wants a playoff.

Obviously, the conferences, ADs and school presidents don't want a playoff. But did you know that 73% of coaches (including TCU's Patterson and BSU's Peterson) want to keep the BCS the way it is: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sport...,1073733.story

I've read other articles (which I can't seem to find right now) that surveyed the players and 80% of them don't want a playoff either.

If no one in the sports wants a playoff it clearly isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Heh, I would say playoffs cause coaches to get fired!
'How come you made the final last year but failed to get past the first round this year?"

Patterson and Peterson have it made, they can coach where they are for life! or their stock keeps going up so they can get at a big school.

Say TCU gets pwned in the first round a couple of years in a row and see what their fans think!

[valo403]

Originally Posted by transplant99

See this I understand...but if the 8th place team is an undefeated SWAC team for instance, should they not get a shot at the best? I know 04 was an anomaly but 5 schools went undefeated...but only 2 got a chance and that game was a blowout of major proportions which tells me the computer got at least one team wrong.



Not that tough at all...either team could lose and still easily(probably in fact if the preseason rankings have any merit) win their conference which assures an automatic BCS game...and should every team in other conferences lose a game they are all now back on equal footing and again it will come down to pre-season rankings as where they start determines how far they fall and how hard/easy it is to get back into the top.


Its still a game i will watch whether or not the PO system exists. Why? because its two early top teams playing one another. A PO system wont change that. If it did..people wouldnt watch NFL regular season games either, but they do and in droves. The SB draws the largest tv audience every year no matter who is playing in it....why? Because people love football whether or not they have a horse in the race. I would suggest the very same for any PO system and in fact the NC game as it is now.

Not that tough at all? Really? If Miami loses Saturday they are all but guaranteed to not be in the NC game. There are ways, but they would need an absolute ton of help. OSU would have a slightly easier road back, but again they would need help. The game is a defacto playoff game for Miami, and pretty damn close to one for OSU.

And don't give me the "people still watch the NFL" argument. Different leagues, different fan bases (there's obviously overlap, but they are distinct markets) and different values. The SB draws huge ratings because of the spectacle, not because of football.

[transplant99]

And don't give me the "people still watch the NFL" argument.

Oh I think I will use whatever damn argument I want thanks.

Different leagues, different fan bases (there's obviously overlap, but they are distinct markets) and different values. The SB draws huge ratings because of the spectacle, not because of football.

Answer me this then...why are ratings so high for the playoff games that preceed the SB....in markets that dont have teams involved especially?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Oh I think I will use whatever damn argument I want thanks.



Answer me this then...why are ratings so high for the playoff games that preceed the SB....in markets that dont have teams involved especially?

Where did I dispute that the NFL playoffs draw larger audiences? You referred to Super Bowl viewership, I responded to Super Bowl viewership.

Super Bowl numbers go through the roof because people who don't give a damn about football watch. Care to explain why the game is broadcast and watched in so many nations? It's obviously because they love football right? That's why you can't find another game on TV in many of those palces the rest of the year, they love football so they tune in for the Super Bowl but don't care to watch the other hundreds of games. It also explains the massive increase in female viewership. Yep, your theory is sure a solid one.

[Jesse834]

Mark Ingram looks like he is a no go for this weekend vs. Penn State.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Cause bowls are at neutral sites? If you don't have neutral site playoff games than you eliminate the Rose Bowl, Fiesta Bowl etc...

Present to me your playoff format
Would you still use the BCS to seed the teams? etc...
What would be your criteria?

I have no problem with eliminating stupid bowl games, but I am in a very distinct minority and I know that.

I don't have a playoff format. I don't think this is an easy fix, I just think that the fact that a team in Boise State's position this year has half the country rooting against them because they don't think they are worthy of a shot at the National Title is a huge downer. People should get to see that team try to attain something.

[transplant99]

Super Bowl numbers go through the roof because people who don't give a damn about football watch. Care to explain why the game is broadcast and watched in so many nations? It's obviously because they love football right? That's why you can't find another game on TV in many of those palces the rest of the year, they love football so they tune in for the Super Bowl but don't care to watch the other hundreds of games. It also explains the massive increase in female viewership. Yep, your theory is sure a solid one

read what i said...i wasnt even talking about the SB there.

And yes..its pretty obvious that football at all levels is very much loved in the US...though I have zero idea what that has to do with anything.

As for where games are broadcast worldwide during the season...wtf are you talking about?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by transplant99

read what i said...i wasnt even talking about the SB there.

Really? This is you right?

"The SB draws the largest tv audience every year no matter who is playing in it....why? Because people love football whether or not they have a horse in the race."

I guess by SB you were referring to something else?

And yes..its pretty obvious that football at all levels is very much loved in the US...though I have zero idea what that has to do with anything.

Loved? Sure, but your claim is that the SB draws such a massive audience because everybody loves football, and that is simply false. SB viewership numbers are massive due to the specatacle. They would be large regardless, but they get amped to the ridiculous degree that they do because people who don't care about football watch that game.

As for where games are broadcast worldwide during the season...wtf are you talking about?[/

WTF am I talking about? I'm giving you an example of why your "the SB draws a massive audience because people love football claim" is absurd.

[JayP]

Just a reminder that Auburn/Miss. St is on The Score right now..

They just advertised that The Score will be picking up ESPN's coverage of Penn St. @ Alabama on Saturday - great news. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come and The Score will continue to pick up key ESPN games.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Highlights of the Montana/Western State game this past Saturday in Missoula. I post this not because I know how much you all want to see the Grizzlies dismantle a divsion II opponent, but more because I think the Griz' new uniforms are completely awesome!

[PIMking]

although I'm not an Alabama fan I hope to find a ticket to that game.