Rate your current mental health level out of 10

[MrSector9]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Solid 1.5-2

Can't get into much without breaking down. Yesterday I was driving home, and if I didn't have the family dog with me...

For sure the dog goes everywhere with you from now on as per TheIronMaiden.

Also breakdown, the more you fight it, the more it will also weigh on your shoulders, whether it is here or with an anonymous account on reddit, or to your dog.... get it out and start making moves to change things a little bit at a time. The amount of pressure you have is only being compounded by trying to "handle" it without breaking down.

[MrSector9]

Originally Posted by bluejays

My story, and would like some advice (I find it weird opening up on a forum, but here goes):

There are lots of jobs, and now they are making you make an important choice in life.

Even if you took a pay cut, and got another part time job you actually enjoyed to meet your financial obligations you will be happier at the end of the day even if you have less free time, now I am sure most of your free time is worrying about your job and being unhappy so not very productive anyway.

The main thing to look at right now, is you are still working, do not wait for them to make a decision which we both know they are going to make no matter the outcome of your project, ###### the VP and collect a pay cheque while you are making arrangements in the background to get the hell out of that dead end.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I don’t know if it’s helpful with the now, but a friend of mine is a dad to two and says his biggest regret with his first was how much he wished away the hard parts and how much time he wasted wanting those phases to pass, because when they disappear they take a lot of the good little things you forget to appreciate in the moment. He said with his second he even appreciated the 2 am wake ups because he realized eventually, for the good and the bad, they just stop needing you the same way.

Can’t speak to it myself, but that stuck with me.

There’s a lot of truth in that, and I am thankful for a lot of the positive moments I get to share with my kid. Watching him learn to put square pegs in square holes (unlike his old man) and seeing his pattern recognition start to develop is something I’m grateful for recently. So thank you for the encouragement.

The 20-25 hours of sleep over the last week is kicking my ass however.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Bluejays -

You asked for advice in your OP and not coaching so I'm going to skip the asking you questions until you come to the solution yourself stage and just outright say it direct:

All signs point to you being managed out of your position. Your VP made that decision before she asked you to take a different job, you didn't, and now they are moving to the next stages of managing you out. You acknowledge this yourself with the comment:

Deep down you know that the end game of this is some version of you either taking another position at the company (from the sounds of it that boat's probably already sailed) or outright you leaving the company. Given that HR is now involved this is likely coming to a head soon (like within 0-90 days soon).

From others who have been in this situation they will say that that any effort trying to 'do better, learn . . . etc. etc.' in your existing role is time and effort wasted that could have been used working towards the next move.

Given you have been there 17 years, I would suggest retaining an employment lawyer ASAP to ensure you don't get done dirty on severance and come to terms with the fact you will need a new job very soon. Start taking steps towards that goal: reaching out to your network, brushing up your linkedin, resume, etc.

Anyone facing something similar, remember PIP = 'Paid Interview Period'

Also, if they suggest bringing you down to part time vs a package, bite the bullet and choose the package. DO NOT AGREE TO TRANSITIONING TO PART TIME.

If you agree to part time, severance is often calculated based on your last pay cheques. They'll likely let you go anyways, but if you're part time, they can get away with giving you only a fraction of what you are due for your severance. I've seen it before a few times. Someone worked 4 months part time and the severance money they lost vs if they took the package at full time... they basically worked for free for 4 months (part time) and lost out on another few months of money. This was someone who worked for a company for 4-5 years, not 17 like bluejays.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Bluejays -

You asked for advice in your OP and not coaching so I'm going to skip the asking you questions until you come to the solution yourself stage and just outright say it direct:

All signs point to you being managed out of your position. Your VP made that decision before she asked you to take a different job, you didn't, and now they are moving to the next stages of managing you out. You acknowledge this yourself with the comment:

Deep down you know that the end game of this is some version of you either taking another position at the company (from the sounds of it that boat's probably already sailed) or outright you leaving the company. Given that HR is now involved this is likely coming to a head soon (like within 0-90 days soon).

From others who have been in this situation they will say that that any effort trying to 'do better, learn . . . etc. etc.' in your existing role is time and effort wasted that could have been used working towards the next move.

Given you have been there 17 years, I would suggest retaining an employment lawyer ASAP to ensure you don't get done dirty on severance and come to terms with the fact you will need a new job very soon. Start taking steps towards that goal: reaching out to your network, brushing up your linkedin, resume, etc.

Anyone facing something similar, remember PIP = 'Paid Interview Period'

@bluejays...Agree with Cowboy, especially with the employment lawyer, they're not expensive, and they'll be a good sounding board / sense check.

Also my old boss at the bank did survive a situation like this. He threatened to file a bullying complaint against the VP in question. That VP had higher aspirations that a bullying complaint would kill. My old boss was able to ride out the VPs tenure as they were managed out of the position and eventually the company.

Another acquaintance retained an employment lawyer when another large corporate tried to manage him out without severance, and the employment lawyer beat them back and got him his package. He landed another job within a few months that was equal to the one he was managed out of, and he is still at that new company 8yrs later.

It also sounds like you're the type of employee that a lot of firms would want. A package, a break, and a new job could reinvigorate you. You've got lots of worth, don't let your current situation get you too down.

[bluejays]

Thanks for the advice guys. I had a friend who is an employment lawyer who I consulted for free. But it wasn’t helpful. Today I actually cried at work after talking with a person I trust in the office. First time crying in probably 10 years. It cleared up my feeling almost immediately and now I’m going to ride it out until I get a new job within the company or they fire me. Beyond that time will play it out but I feel much better at this moment.

[Jiri Hrdina]

A crappy boss can have an unreal impact on one's mental well being and quality of life. I went through a year of that, and it was the year that led to my insomnia and anxiety on the other side. All because of that piece of crap boss.
Hang in there. Or find a way out.
But I get it - these junk bosses can just ruin you.

[Locke]

I just had to tell a gentleman who is 28 years old with a 2 year old daughter and his wife just died why his Carbon Tax rebate went down.

A rebate he relied upon. They are not wealthy people.

Because his wife died theres only 2 of them in the household now so he uses less Carbon so his Rebate goes down.

Ugh. I really hate this job sometimes.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Got some George costanza vibes happening. Every single decision I make in life is wrong. Maybe if I ignore all my instincts and do the opposite then inevitably I’ll do the right thing.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

A crappy boss can have an unreal impact on one's mental well being and quality of life. I went through a year of that, and it was the year that led to my insomnia and anxiety on the other side. All because of that piece of crap boss.
Hang in there. Or find a way out.
But I get it - these junk bosses can just ruin you.

Completely and 100% agree. 7 years ago, I had the boss from hell and for the first time in my life, fell into depression because of her and for the only time in my life, actually thought I might be as useless as she said I was. I was so close to quitting the firm, but found an exit from that account and I'm still with the same company 7 years later. Today, I've progressed to a higher level than she was back then, she was let go last year and things are going great for me. People NEED to get the EFF away from toxic bosses.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Completely and 100% agree. 7 years ago, I had the boss from hell and for the first time in my life, fell into depression because of her and for the only time in my life, actually thought I might be as useless as she said I was. I was so close to quitting the firm, but found an exit from that account and I'm still with the same company 7 years later. Today, I've progressed to a higher level than she was back then, she was let go last year and things are going great for me. People NEED to get the EFF away from toxic bosses.

I had a boss like that.

I ended up quitting and starting my own company.

Every time she darkened my doorway I thought was going to have a Panic attack and I couldn't take it anymore.

Every interaction was hostile. I had to leave.

It was hard and there were Legal battles for years, but I couldn't stay.

It was unpleasant and it was hard, I mean REALLY hard, and it still is.

Running your own Business comes with a lot of challenges of it's own.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Locke

I had a boss like that.



I ended up quitting and starting my own company.



Every time she darkened my doorway I thought was going to have a Panic attack and I couldn't take it anymore.



Every interaction was hostile. I had to leave.



It was hard and there were Legal battles for years, but I couldn't stay.



It was unpleasant and it was hard, I mean REALLY hard, and it still is.



Running your own Business comes with a lot of challenges of it's own.

That same boss wanted me to "convince" someone that rolled up under me to leave the firm, knowing she was having her own issues and was considering quitting, so our account wouldn't have to eat the cost of her severance, since she was tagged for roll off due to planned contract terms to reduce headcount. Wtf kind of person does that to someone else? It's not like you're paying it out of your own pocket. I went the opposite way and made sure my team member just held out until they eventually laid her off, but at least she got the severance she deserved.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by activeStick

That same boss wanted me to "convince" someone that rolled up under me to leave the firm, knowing she was having her own issues and was considering quitting, so our account wouldn't have to eat the cost of her severance, since she was tagged for roll off due to planned contract terms to reduce headcount. Wtf kind of person does that to someone else? It's not like you're paying it out of your own pocket. I went the opposite way and made sure my team member just held out until they eventually laid her off, but at least she got the severance she deserved.

I'm sorry you had to go through that.

I employ people and the first thing I tell them is pretty simple:

"Never assume that I am always right."

Yeah. I've been doing this for 22 years. You think you've got a better idea? Lets hear it.

I won't promise to adopt the idea, but I'll listen and won't dismiss it out of hand just because I think I know better.

I've found that treating my employees well has worked out well for me. They like working here. Which is a borderline miracle, because we do Taxes.

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

A crappy boss can have an unreal impact on one's mental well being and quality of life. I went through a year of that, and it was the year that led to my insomnia and anxiety on the other side. All because of that piece of crap boss.
Hang in there. Or find a way out.
But I get it - these junk bosses can just ruin you.

Absolutely true. Recently, I survived a VP who was a real piece of work and put me on a ridiculous PIP. He was hired last summer, remote from the rest of the team, and just a real jerk to anyone. One day he announced he was leaving, and my old boss/VP texted me "they asked him to leave since no one liked working with him."

The trouble is a few really good people left for other jobs because of his dickishness.

Oh and I got the PIP expunged from my employment record because HR agreed "it was not actionable."

Since he left, I'm at a 5. Pretty luke warm.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

Absolutely true. Recently, I survived a VP who was a real piece of work and put me on a ridiculous PIP. He was hired last summer, remote from the rest of the team, and just a real jerk to anyone. One day he announced he was leaving, and my old boss/VP texted me "they asked him to leave since no one liked working with him."

The trouble is a few really good people left for other jobs because of his dickishness.

Oh and I got the PIP expunged from my employment record because HR agreed "it was not actionable."

Since he left, I'm at a 5. Pretty luke warm.

I don't think being an outward dick is better or worse than someone coy, but I find in a lot of the corporate world more often than not the person doesn't outwardly wear the devil horns. There are a ton of sociopaths out there. Some can be spotted, and some are great at manipulation. In a sort of way the coy person can be liked by a bunch of people and ride their rein longer. A dick is just that and is likely to rub the wrong person. In my case my VP appears to be the nicest person ever, but there are micro aggression's that flare and you see some true colours of subtle badmouthing. Everyone has their bad days, but when you see it in non-pressure or warranted situations a few times it's probably right to follow your intuition that they're just not a good person.

[RichieRich]

Also had the bad megalomaniac sociopath boss for a bit just after the oil crash, when I was lucky to even have a job. Sounds brutal but I'm surprised there wasn't physical violence against this person, or someone commiting suicide (neither being myself - but that one experience taught me more empathy for mental health than any other career experience). HR was useless and scared of them. Eventually they "retired", but I still have PTSD from that.


More recently I quickly left another role due to a terrible boss who clearly wasn't on board with my hiring and effectively started executing a constructive dismissal within a few weeks including a PIP which was nothing but lies (was accused of stuff on projects I wasn't even involved in). Was nice to leave that on my own terms.


As others have said, a terrible boss (or workplace) is an extreme drain on your mental and physical health. It carries with you to home, relationships, decisions, sleep, dreams, exercise, and other life choices. If you REALLY REALLY think you can either stick it out (for whatever reason), you have to have a super thick skin and really truly DGAFF and also have a positive outlet instead of negative. Also start networking hard and get looking.

[fotze2]

I am so terrified for what is coming. I am so scared. I don’t want my kid to get attached to me so I’m being aloof.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by fotze2

I am so terrified for what is coming. I am so scared. I don’t want my kid to get attached to me so I’m being aloof.

Did you mention you had a surgery upcoming or am I mixing up posters? Either way you have a lot of worth and value that you can teach your kid.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

A crappy boss can have an unreal impact on one's mental well being and quality of life. I went through a year of that, and it was the year that led to my insomnia and anxiety on the other side. All because of that piece of crap boss.
Hang in there. Or find a way out.
But I get it - these junk bosses can just ruin you.

Yup, hang in there.

I had one job for six months where I was crying half the time driving in to work too. Couldn't afford to just quit.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

A crappy boss can have an unreal impact on one's mental well being and quality of life. I went through a year of that, and it was the year that led to my insomnia and anxiety on the other side. All because of that piece of crap boss.
Hang in there. Or find a way out.
But I get it - these junk bosses can just ruin you.

Could not agree more. My boss in my most recent job made my life miserable and it wasn't until I was in a new job with a much better manager that I realized just how bad it was. Imagine having 8 am meetings every day with someone who is miserable 90% of the meetings. Just draining.

I'm just over a year since my layoff and cannot overstate how improved my mental health is with a manager who is sincere, trustworthy, and trusts you to do your job.