2018 Property Tax

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Sliver

You don't help people in your life? Why do you think helping people in your circle are unique to being a teacher? I help my employees all the time with a value way beyond bringing a lunch.

Tthis isn't a pissing contest of who works the hardest or has the worst job. The point is that teachers deserve the financial benefits of their job. I was simply making a point of the emotional challenges of the job, including being but in a position where you are obligated to to take interest in the lives of children ( this one in particular was 9) who comes from families with alcoholic parents who don't wash his clothes or pack him lunches. That is the #### teachers are expected to put up with. Its great that you ( or anyone) takes an interest or goes above and beyond, the point I am making is that teachers don't necessarily have the choice, and they should be rewarded as such, and I hope that you get rewarded for being in similar circumstances and doing well.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I don't want to minimize this, as I'm sure good teachers are the ones doing this and I don't think they should have to, and good on them, but how much does that actually cost a year? $500? I hear it brought up a lot, but is it all that significant?

It depends on the teacher, and how long they've been at it. A new teacher will have to build up a stock pile of new resources, so the start up cost can be quite steep. Also a teacher who wants their students to have nice things, or a variety of things will pay much more.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Locke

I dont think anyone is saying that we should chain them to their desks and allow let them loose after the bell rings or anything, but they are well compensated, have excellent pensions and benefits and vacation time and are completely insulated from market economics.

They also complain a lot.

Nurses dont whine this much and I think their job is a lot harder.

Anecdotal counterpoint: I've never had a teacher tell me that gargling urine is the best way to treat a sore throat, so maybe nurses just fall under the "ignorance is bliss" umbrella?

[Nufy]

Originally Posted by jgotti

City workers just took a 3 year deal that was 0 percent 0 percent and 1.5 percent. They also took 0 percent in back pay after the original contract was over a year lapsed. There have been conscessions made by city workers

Not really.

How is not losing anything a concession when private workers have faced massive layoffs and salary roll backs.

Almost everyone I knew at Stantec took a pay cut in 2015 / 16 and are still trying to make that back.

I expect it was the same for most O&G companies.

[rain_e]

All these hard working O&G workers ####ting on teachers while they are posting on CP during work hours. Yes you guys really do deserve those bonuses that were being handed out like candy when times were good. You were the reason profits were through the roof and you deserve a bonus!

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Hours on the job?

40 hour work week, annually, is 2,080 hours. Assuming 52 weeks worked.

Most people are eligible for between 3 and 4 weeks vacation per year (subtract 120-160 hours), leaves you with 1,960 to 1,920 hours worked. For you old bastards that get 5-6 weeks per year.....congrats.

For the specific teacher I know (before unpaid overtime), ten years experience (likely eligible for 4-5 weeks vacation in private sector):

7:30-4:30 (9hrs) x 5 = 45 hrs / week. 45*52 = 2,340
Less: Christmas (2 week break) = 90 hrs.
Less: March Break (1 week break) = 45 hrs.
Less: Summer Break (8 week break) = 360 hrs.

2340 - 495 = 1,845 hours worked annually.

So.....what are we actually arguing about? A difference of 75 hours worked (1.7 weeks) annually? And that's before adding in the unpaid overtime that would end up smashing through weekly hours worked for pretty much anyone not in the legal profession.

Ducay - do you get an annual bonus to compensate for overtime?

Just trying to put things into an apples to apples debate here.

Some people are fine with working hard and contributing just to the "greater good." I'd argue most people find that their marginal utility for extra effort is governed closely by how it is tied to income.

If you want the best results from any profession, then pay for it. If you don't, don't complain about the results.

but you're counting 9 hours per day for teachers but not for other workers? Most people work 9 hours but get paid 8. So the real math would be:

Teachers: 45hrs X (52weeks - 1march - 2xmas - 8summer) = 1845 hours a year

Others: 45hrs X (52weeks - 4vacation) = 2160 hours a year

now we're at 315 fewer hours worked, or 7 extra weeks at 45hrs/week

just because the teacher you know doesn't get their mandated breaks or whatever, I know many many people in the private sector also skip breaks, work lunch hours to push thru a deadline or are just generally unorganized and can't seem to ever take lunch other than a sandwich at their desks for 10 mins.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Lets also not forget that teacher pay for a lot of their classroom supplies out of pocket. Not to mention the extra costs of being a teacher. One teacher I know well had to continually pack extra lunches because she knew that one student in particular came from a situation where he was not guaranteed to have a lunch every day.



People who think that teaching is a dream job have clearly never stepped into a working classroom in their adult life.

Having volunteered for the Junior Achievement program several times, all I can say is, thank god it's only once or twice a year and not full time. I certainly wouldn't be able to do what a teacher does, that's for sure. I'd have trouble keeping kids engaged.

[rain_e]

Originally Posted by Swarly

but you're counting 9 hours per day for teachers but not for other workers? Most people work 9 hours but get paid 8. So the real math would be:

Teachers: 45hrs X (52weeks - 1march - 2xmas - 8summer) = 1845 hours a year

Others: 45hrs X (52weeks - 4vacation) = 2160 hours a year

now we're at 315 fewer hours worked, or 7 extra weeks at 45hrs/week

just because the teacher you know doesn't get their mandated breaks or whatever, I know many many people in the private sector also skip breaks, work lunch hours to push thru a deadline or are just generally unorganized and can't seem to ever take lunch other than a sandwich at their desks for 10 mins.

It's true people do skip breaks. Also people in the private sector have the ability to close their office door for an hour or half the day when they need to.

I wonder what a teacher does when they show up for class at 8am and they are just having a ####ty day and need 30 minutes to get it together.


* - Disclosure - I am not a teacher but I know kids are dumb as #### in this country as it is so I fully support more money going towards the education system.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Having volunteered for the Junior Achievement program several times, all I can say is, thank god it's only once or twice a year and not full time. I certainly wouldn't be able to do what a teacher does, that's for sure. I'd have trouble keeping kids engaged.

I'm sure with six years of university training to be a teacher you'd learn just fine.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I don't want to minimize this, as I'm sure good teachers are the ones doing this and I don't think they should have to, and good on them, but how much does that actually cost a year? $500? I hear it brought up a lot, but is it all that significant?

We spend several thousand, per year. After tax.

And it isn't for lavish things.

We are talking basics like pencils, paper, food, classroom materials, etc.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

We spend several thousand, per year. After tax.

And it isn't for lavish things.

We are talking basics like pencils, paper, food, classroom materials, etc.

What time did you get off work to be able to start this discussion?

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

... I thought this thread was supposed to be about property taxes.

Ahh yes, but then we wouldn't have a stimulating teacher bashing debate to ring in the end of the school year and the start of summer holidays, now would we?

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Locke

What time did you get off work to be able to start this discussion?

I'm the spouse of the teacher, good sir, not the teacher.

She'd probably kill me if she saw this thread.

[Sliver]

Several thousand? I'm skeptical, but open minded to being convinced. If true, that's not fair at all. Do you track the spending and would you be willing to share your receipts? I just looked up my office supplies expenses for fiscal 2018 for my company and they were $5810. Several thousand implies at least two or three thousand. I can't imagine it based on what I spend here.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Several thousand? I'm skeptical, but open minded to being convinced. If true, that's not fair at all. Do you track the spending and would you be willing to share your receipts? I just looked up my office supplies expenses for fiscal 2018 for my company and they were $5810. Several thousand implies at least two or three thousand. I can't imagine it based on what I spend here.

It would take a bit of forensic bill sleuthing, but I'm sure I could come up with a tally of some type. I'll see what I can do when I get a bit of time.

I'll put it this way, Sliver. We rarely donate to charities. Primarily because what we would give in charitable contributions goes to a new set of 25-30 kids every year.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rain_e

It's true people do skip breaks. Also people in the private sector have the ability to close their office door for an hour or half the day when they need to.

I wonder what a teacher does when they show up for class at 8am and they are just having a ####ty day and need 30 minutes to get it together.


* - Disclosure - I am not a teacher but I know kids are dumb as #### in this country as it is so I fully support more money going towards the education system.

I don't see a lot of people in the private sector closing their doors or taking an hour or half a day for a breather anymore, especially in this environment.


For the most part a lot of people in the private sector are judged on their Key Performance Indicators, or on the projects that they're working on and their ability to bring it in on time or on budget.


that person that's having a shytty day doesn't get a half an hour mental health break, and if they take it they'd better be making it up elsewhere.


Do teachers get judged on the performance of their students on tests? I'm not snarking, I'm genuinely curious what the teacher criteria is in terms of performance management.

[KTrain]

My wife is probably in the $800-$1000 range for out of pocket expenses for her classroom. That would include supplies, books the school doesn't have, special events, and food she brings in etc. She also purchases gifts for the students in her TA who are graduating. Not something she has to do but wants to for the students who have been in her TA for 3 years.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by rain_e

It's true people do skip breaks. Also people in the private sector have the ability to close their office door for an hour or half the day when they need to.

sure, some people in the private sector that have an office can close their door and zone out for a bit. but that isn't the majority.

Originally Posted by rain_e

I wonder what a teacher does when they show up for class at 8am and they are just having a ####ty day and need 30 minutes to get it together.


* - Disclosure - I am not a teacher but I know kids are dumb as #### in this country as it is so I fully support more money going towards the education system.

they put on a movie

[rain_e]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Do teachers get judged on the performance of their students on tests? I'm not snarking, I'm genuinely curious what the teacher criteria is in terms of performance management.

In an ideal world parents should be judged on their children's performance. As far as I know teachers are not judged on students performances. To some degree they should be but when the entire education system is based on leaving no kid behind you can no longer judge the teacher. These kids are setup to be pushed through the system and will only excel by either having parents step in or going to a private school.

[rain_e]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't see a lot of people in the private sector closing their doors or taking an hour or half a day for a breather anymore, especially in this environment.

I'm pretty sure anyone on here before 5pm is on a mental health break.