[Signing] Flames sign Jankowski to two yr ELC starting in 16/17. Will report to Stockton on ATO

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Top 10 problems

1. Lack of a true #1 goalie
2. Wideman's contract
3. Lack of top 6 wingers
4. Special teams
5. Raymond's contract
6. Smid's contract
7. Stajan's contract

Guess it's about 7th for me. Definitely not a pressing issue, every team can afford one mediocre midrange contract.

Yup.

And I would say 'lack of top 6 wingers' is at least 2 problems.

And I would add: #4 defenseman, as well as overall team size

[JiriHrdina]

Janko has one pro game and people are already saying he's better than Stajan? I think folks underestimate the jump to the NHL.
The Stajan deal is a problem. As are others noted here. But I don't think it is holding the team right now.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

But it isn't hurting the team to be competitive, unless you'd bring in another centre instead of Stajan. So you have to ask yourself. Are you happy with Bennett and Mony being pegged as our #1 and #2. IF yes, then Stajan's contract becomes irrelevant given it expires as Bennett will need a raise.

Except Bennett and Monahan aren't problems for the team. Finding another top six winger or two is, and that is where proper salary management is crucial. Stajan is a bottom line center being paid third line money. With Backlund on the team, making third line money, Matt Stajan is an unnecessary contract.

Even if you could get rid of Stajan, you wouldn't do so and bring in another centre. So then you are left with using his money on a player for 2 years or less. Any player signing a UFA deal at 2 years or less isn't a player we are looking for, that's another Raymond type flyer (and if it works out, the money isn't there to remind-sign after). You could argue that maybe you could get a player via trade, but the same issue exists when the contract expires, and I don't think the Flames have the assets that we'd be willing to part with to acquire such a player.

That's right, you don't bring in another center, you promote from within. Whether that be Derek Grant or Bill Arnold you make that move so you can save $2M+. You need that money to pay that much needed top six winger, regardless of you bring him in.

The whole point is, anyone complaining about the Flames cap space has lost the plot on this rebuild and gotten impatient. The Flames aren't trying to be peaking next year or the year after, nor should they be. Very easy to look at our place in the standings, and get uncomfortable that a basement dweller is pushing the cap. But that ignores the expiry dates of our bad contracts, when our new young core is going to peak, and the fact that even if we had that cap space that there likely wouldn't be any assets to use it on because we need the money to be used wisely down the road as the players we are building around come if their entry level deals.

I didn't realize that a rebuild had a specific course and there was specific timing involved? I thought rebuilds were organic and developed as quickly or slowly as the individuals and team dynamics emerged. Thinking their is a specific time frame with a rebuild is a little silly. Both Monahan and Gaudreau stepped up a lot quicker than some would imagine. Getting Hamilton accelerates any rebuild. Timelines change and can change rapidly. Tying yourself down with albatross contracts is what holds teams back. Stajan, Wideman, Raymond, Smid and Engelland's contracts are hurting the rebuild.

There is no cap issue with the Flames, just a patience issue with the fan base as to when this team is truly being built to be a contender. I'd love it to be next year too, but that's simply realistic based on the age of our key players.

So the Flames should just wait for these contracts to expire, while wasting important years on other player's deals? They shouldn't be proactive in fixing what is holding the team back? They should sit on these over-priced borderline useless veterans because their contracts will expire in the near future? I think that would be a very bad move. I think that would lose this team fans as the losses pile up because of those players they need to cull from the herd. To me, that sounds like a team that doesn't take winning seriously.

[AcGold]

4-5 such contracts are holding the team. Stajan is under 50% on the dot, 14 points, easy to knock off the puck, nearly invisible at all times. You're overestimating the jump, Janko shouldn't even be on the fourth line Grant should, but in Stajans spot Jankowski would be hard pressed to get less than 14 points. He'd have to try to get that few.

So if the motto was always earned, how is Jankowski going to be less deserving? Especially if he shows up at 215 in camp and blows Stajan out of the water. There's no point keeping a 215 pound 22 year old back from the NHL if the person he'd replace is vastly inferior (at the present time).

[GranteedEV]

Without Smid, Stajan, Engelland, Raymond...

we could be throwing money at Stamkos this offseason.

[Sylvanfan]

My biggest issue with Stajan contract is the term. It was always one year too long. The day it was announced I said I'd have rather paid the dollars over 3 years. Still you can use Stajan next year, than decide if you'd rather buy him out or use Jankowski in his place and put him in the AHL post expansion draft.

It's nice to finally have Jankowski in the system and doing something. Given how poorly most of the draft picks that the Flames have had in the 21-26 range (Chucko/Pelech/Irving/Nemisz/Erixon) it's due for one to work out.

[druetetective]

What would you guys give up to dump some of these bad contracts?

We seen the cost was roughly a 2nd to dump brooks Laich who's cap hit will cost the Leafs 4.5 for 1.25 years.

I personally would give up the Flames 3rdd plus a 6th or something to dump Stajan. I'd offer a 4th plus middling prospect (Agostino/Arnold/Wotherspoon) to get rid of Bouma.

The contracts that expire after next year don't bother me as much.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by AcGold

4-5 such contracts are holding the team. Stajan is under 50% on the dot, 14 points, easy to knock off the puck, nearly invisible at all times. You're overestimating the jump, Janko shouldn't even be on the fourth line Grant should, but in Stajans spot Jankowski would be hard pressed to get less than 14 points. He'd have to try to get that few.

So if the motto was always earned, how is Jankowski going to be less deserving? Especially if he shows up at 215 in camp and blows Stajan out of the water. There's no point keeping a 215 pound 22 year old back from the NHL if the person he'd replace is vastly inferior (at the present time).

There are so many assumptions in this post
- That he would be effective on the 4th line
- That playing on the 4th line is the right thing for Janko long-term over playing top line minutes in the AHL
- That Grant is better than Stajan
- That Stajan is vastly inferior

If Janko wins a spot next year then great - but I don't think the right thing is for him to skate limited minutes on the 4th line. He needs to play - and play a lot particularly coming out of the college system with fewer games.

Don't rush him.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by druetetective

What would you guys give up to dump some of these bad contracts?

We seen the cost was roughly a 2nd to dump brooks Laich who's cap hit will cost the Leafs 4.5 for 1.25 years.

I personally would give up the Flames 3rdd plus a 6th or something to dump Stajan. I'd offer a 4th plus middling prospect (Agostino/Arnold/Wotherspoon) to get rid of Bouma.

The contracts that expire after next year don't bother me as much.

Nothing. The situation isn't critical enough to give up assets to dump the contracts. Let them ride out.

[automaton 3]

Iirc the Flames made specific mention of Stajan's community work and influence on the younger players as others factors in the signing - factors which the Flames organization obviously values.

I do think he is slightly overpaid for what he brings on the ice, but in the bigger picture it isn't much of a factor on the budget.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by druetetective

What would you guys give up to dump some of these bad contracts?

We seen the cost was roughly a 2nd to dump brooks Laich who's cap hit will cost the Leafs 4.5 for 1.25 years.

I personally would give up the Flames 3rdd plus a 6th or something to dump Stajan. I'd offer a 4th plus middling prospect (Agostino/Arnold/Wotherspoon) to get rid of Bouma.

The contracts that expire after next year don't bother me as much.

Neither of those contracts is worth throwing away assets to dump. Bouma is a useful player.

The real problem contracts right now are Wideman, Raymond and Smid. None of the other ones are a big enough problem to worry about.

[OffsideSpecialist]

It has been mentioned time and time again, but contracts like Bouma and Stajan could be very useful if there is an expansion draft next summer and the Flames need to expose 25% of their salary. All things considered, I don't think they are players worth giving up assets to dump at this point.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by OffsideSpecialist

It has been mentioned time and time again, but contracts like Bouma and Stajan could be very useful if there is an expansion draft next summer and the Flames need to expose 25% of their salary. All things considered, I don't think they are players worth giving up assets to dump at this point.

Does Stajan have a NMC? If he does, that might be a problem when it comes to expansion.

[OffsideSpecialist]

Originally Posted by codynw

Does Stajan have a NMC? If he does, that might be a problem when it comes to expansion.

I believe he has a limited NTC

[Gaudfather]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Top 10 problems

1. Lack of a true #1 goalie
2. Wideman's contract
3. Lack of top 6 wingers
4. Special teams
5. Raymond's contract
6. Smid's contract
7. Stajan's contract

Guess it's about 7th for me. Definitely not a pressing issue, every team can afford one mediocre midrange contract.

You have to add another problem:

8. Lack of Truculence

Also I would make Special Teams the Flames No. 2 problem, right after goaltending.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

There are so many assumptions in this post
- That he would be effective on the 4th line
- That playing on the 4th line is the right thing for Janko long-term over playing top line minutes in the AHL
- That Grant is better than Stajan
- That Stajan is vastly inferior

If Janko wins a spot next year then great - but I don't think the right thing is for him to skate limited minutes on the 4th line. He needs to play - and play a lot particularly coming out of the college system with fewer games.

Don't rush him.

Not if you read more closely. I chose my words fairly carefully, you misinterpreted.

Was saying Stajan should go, not worth a spot.

[dammage79]

Mark Stajankowski!

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Without Smid, Stajan, Engelland, Raymond...

we could be throwing money at Stamkos this offseason.

Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by New Era

Except Bennett and Monahan aren't problems for the team. Finding another top six winger or two is, and that is where proper salary management is crucial. Stajan is a bottom line center being paid third line money. With Backlund on the team, making third line money, Matt Stajan is an unnecessary contract.



That's right, you don't bring in another center, you promote from within. Whether that be Derek Grant or Bill Arnold you make that move so you can save $2M+. You need that money to pay that much needed top six winger, regardless of you bring him in.



I didn't realize that a rebuild had a specific course and there was specific timing involved? I thought rebuilds were organic and developed as quickly or slowly as the individuals and team dynamics emerged. Thinking their is a specific time frame with a rebuild is a little silly. Both Monahan and Gaudreau stepped up a lot quicker than some would imagine. Getting Hamilton accelerates any rebuild. Timelines change and can change rapidly. Tying yourself down with albatross contracts is what holds teams back. Stajan, Wideman, Raymond, Smid and Engelland's contracts are hurting the rebuild.



So the Flames should just wait for these contracts to expire, while wasting important years on other player's deals? They shouldn't be proactive in fixing what is holding the team back? They should sit on these over-priced borderline useless veterans because their contracts will expire in the near future? I think that would be a very bad move. I think that would lose this team fans as the losses pile up because of those players they need to cull from the herd. To me, that sounds like a team that doesn't take winning seriously.

Some thoughts.

Who do you think the Flames have missed out on acquiring due to this lack of cap space? Who from the UFA pool last year or this year would you like us to sign up to long term? Which player was available via trade to improve us on the wing that we likely didn't acquire who wouldn't have cost us assets we weren't willing to part with? You might have some folks in mind. But if you don't the cap space is irrelevant.

I don't disagree that you want to replace the Stajan's and Wideman's of the world with cheaper options, like the players you mention, and for the reasons you mention which is to free up space to round off the team as you suggest with a top winger. But you are really tripping up on the timing. You suggest you didn't know there is a "time requirement" on the rebuild. There isn't, but there is a time where the young core is going to peak and have its "5 year" window. As much as Johnny and Mony have developed quicker than expected, and as much as the surprise addition of Hamilton has certainly helped accelerate this teams jump to respectability, we still are a few years away from these guys being ready to take us to a cup final. This team wasn't a top 6 winger and a goalie away this year from being a contender, they were a top six winger and a goalie away from scrapping into the playoffs.

So, while you could try and rush away contracts that are going to expire in the next two years anyway via undervalued trades or buyouts, but why? All that's going to do is put us in a worse position in two years when this contacts would have expired, than if we were simply patient. Given the age of our key players, Mony, Johnny, Hamilton, Brodie and Bennett, I'd rather we make asset moves that sets us up better 2 years from now, than get impatient to try and make next year or the year after a little better. It's not about a time limit or frame on a rebuild, it's about timing your moves to put you in the best position when your main assets are going to be in their best position to win a cup.

[MarkGio]

Stajan at 3.25 million is the worst contract on the team. Wideman managed 50 points and Smid is LTIR half the time. That leaves your 4th line centre who's not even an energy player making money you would expect from a high end 3rd line forward